Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[huth]

We are burning through cosmic entity ranks way too quickly IMHO. We never had our first real fight with Sargeras but we already know
1) He is affraid of the Void Lords
2) The whole VL reveal was done by the dreadlords on Zovaal's orders because he wants more death to boost his powers, so unknowingly the void lords are only pawns.
3) The Eternal Ones like Zovaal are stronger than the Titans
4) We also have First Ones who came before the First Ones and are even stronger and more mysterious.

And here we are the squishy mortals with pointy sticks while gods try to out-god each other.

Well, no. 1) and 2) are correct. 3) and 4) are not. We have no proof that the Eternal Ones or First Ones are individually stronger than Titans, and for the Eternal Ones it actually looks quite a bit like they're considerably weaker. They govern(ed) different aspects of reality. That doesn't mean they have more raw power.

There's a reason the Nathrezim went for subterfuge rather than open conflict.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Don't know how Easter Holidays are handled in the US and how important Easter is there, but that would make a PTS launch on March 30 pretty unlikely.

Not really a thing afaik. Certainly not as much as in catholic or greek orthodox regions.

[Nyel]

IDK what way of info release I'd prefer.

Loudest consensus seems to be it's an empty patch or they're way behind schedule because we're being told nothing. But I'm not sure if I'd prefer to wait until there's a load of news and they dump it on us at once and put our our frothy self-made fire, or if they dripfed information which might lead to it feeling dragged out.

9.1 is certainly one of the most packed WoW content patches. A huge new raid, a new mega dungeon and a new zone make it a content patch in the realms of 7.2 and 8.2. So to say it's an empty patch is not true, it seems to be a big content patch.

They're absolutely behind their schedule and their radio silence isn't helping.

[Wangming]

Well, no. 1) and 2) are correct. 3) and 4) are not. We have no proof that the Eternal Ones or First Ones are individually stronger than Titans, and for the Eternal Ones it actually looks quite a bit like they're considerably weaker. They govern(ed) different aspects of reality. That doesn't mean they have more raw power.

There's a reason the Nathrezim went for subterfuge rather than open conflict.

Wasn't Zovaal at least confirmed to be stronger than the titans? Plus his whole goddamn plan seems to be trying to unlock the secrets of the First Ones.

[Nyel]

Not really a thing afaik. Certainly not as much as in catholic or greek orthodox regions.

Is Friday and Sunday a public holiday in the US? I mean Easter is the biggest holiday for Christians (not as commercialized as Christmas though), throughout Europe those two days are always holidays, but I have no clue about the US.

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Ah shit, you are right. Welp, April it is.

Well, it still could drop today, but...

[Kiivar86]

Is Friday and Sunday a public holiday in the US? I mean Easter is the biggest holiday for Christians (not as commercialized as Christmas though), throughout Europe those two days are always holidays, but I have no clue about the US.

Generally when a holiday is on a Sunday, the "day off" for it is either the Friday before or the Monday after. In my experience, as a student I'd generally have the Monday after Easter off, but where I work we get Good Friday off instead.

Either way, I don't really see how the Easter holiday would impact a PTR launch, if it launches on the 30th.

[Revamp Man]

As I said, last few patches. For sure 8.3, 9.0, 9.0.5, for earlier I would have to check.

there have been vendor builds for most if not all .2 and .3 patches along with all .x.5 builds however nothing for the .1 builds

[Cosmic Janitor]

Generally when a holiday is on a Sunday, the "day off" for it is either the Friday before or the Monday after. In my experience, as a student I'd generally have the Monday after Easter off, but where I work we get Good Friday off instead.

Either way, I don't really see how the Easter holiday would impact a PTR launch, if it launches on the 30th.

Here in europe in many regions easter holiday means people taking time off work to travel (kids usually get 1 or 2 weeks off) and turn it into a full blown vacation, I know some orthodox christians that treat it as the highest holiday and visit family like others would on christmas or the US does with thanksgiving. I doubt the US treats it that way though.

[Nyel]

Generally when a holiday is on a Sunday, the "day off" for it is either the Friday before or the Monday after. In my experience, as a student I'd generally have the Monday after Easter off, but where I work we get Good Friday off instead.

Either way, I don't really see how the Easter holiday would impact a PTR launch, if it launches on the 30th.

I made a mistake, Easter basically consists of three free days throughout most parts of Europe: Friday, Sunday and Monday. So those three days are alway treated as holidays and nobody besides essential workers is at work (stores are closed as well).

Usually you don't hear much about Easter in the US, that's why I was a bit confused. I just think that bringing up a PTR in a holiday week isn't the most logical thing to do, but actually I don't know enough about it to be sure.

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Here in europe in many regions easter holiday means people taking time off work to travel (kids usually get 1 or 2 weeks off) and turn it into a full blown vacation, I know some orthodox christians that treat it as the highest holiday and visit family like others would on christmas or the US does with thanksgiving. I doubt the US treats it that way though.

Well, for religious people Easter is the highest Christian holiday (higher than Christmas) so it makes sense.

[lostdrewid]

I'm very hopeful for Drust resolution in 9.2 but they don't feel big enough to get a raid or anything. Just as long as they give us an actual story conclusion, be it a zone with dailies/WQs or a dungeon or whathaveyou.

We've defeated the Nathrezim's creator but they're all still out there. Even if they don't have their own get-out-of-death-free cards, they were operating as part of the Legion when they were all last slain, *before* we killed Argus. So they'd make a great villain for 9.2. And if they don't show up then, then they're my bet for 10.x.

I'm really not sure what to think the 9.3 raid will be, now that we know Torghast is 9.1's raid. We need to deal with the Jailer but to do a second Maw raid would be lame as hell. So hopefully there's some location for him to invade and we stop him just before he gets to his destination. e.g. an Oribos raid and we fight him in front of the Arbiter. It could be actually interesting for us to play the defenders in a raid for once.

As for 10.x, if the Nathrezim don't form the backbone of the story, then I'm on board with everyone saying we're going up against the Light and the Void. Or hell, all six "alignments" at once: Light vs Void, Order/Titan vs Chaos/Fel, Life vs Death. All of them except the realm of Life [the Emerald Dream but on a universal scale, from the sound of it?] seem to mean us harm on some level or another. And yeah I know that the Titan vs. Fel battle is "resolved", but is it? Sargeras isn't dead he's just contained, and while Argus is dead there's still the entire rest of the Burning Legion's army. Just because they're no longer infinite didn't make them all go away.

It really, to me, feels like the machinations of the Nathrezim are the ultimate enemy we face right now, and they're wormed in deep enough in all of these realms that it isn't difficult for them to throw any or all of them at us.

[Kiivar86]

Here in europe in many regions easter holiday means people taking time off work to travel (kids usually get 1 or 2 weeks off) and turn it into a full blown vacation, I know some orthodox christians that treat it as the highest holiday and visit family like others would on christmas or the US does with thanksgiving. I doubt the US treats it that way though.

Oh yeah we certainly don't. Kids may get some time off, I seem to recall in K12 education spring break would typically be around there, but as adults, yeah good luck. Hell, I get more days off as a state government worker than my friends who work in the private sector do. Its kind of sad (though said friends mostly get paid more than I do, so I guess it balances out?)

I made a mistake, Easter basically consists of three free days throughout most parts of Europe: Friday, Sunday and Monday. So those three days are alway treated as holidays and nobody besides essential workers is at work (stores are closed as well).

Usually you don't hear much about Easter in the US, that's why I was a bit confused. I just think that bringing up a PTR in a holiday week isn't the most logical thing to do, but actually I don't know enough about it to be sure.

Yeah you do have a point though I feel like the leadup to Easter isn't as much a holiday week to most here in the states, instead of like the week of Thanksgiving.

We'll see though. Honestly I kind of expect PTR by the end of this week, if anything (though I'm prepared to be wrong).

[huth]

I made a mistake, Easter basically consists of three free days throughout most parts of Europe: Friday, Sunday and Monday. So those three days are alway treated as holidays and nobody besides essential workers is at work (stores are closed as well).

Many companies stay closed on Saturday as well since everybody would just ask for the day off or they're closed on Saturday anyway, so it's effectively 4 days for most. And that's a normal year. Germany just decided to lock everything down starting from Thursday, with only grocery stores allowed to open on saturday.

[Wangming]

Many companies stay closed on Saturday as well since everybody would just ask for the day off or they're closed on Saturday anyway, so it's effectively 4 days for most. And that's a normal year. Germany just decided to lock everything down starting from Thursday, with only grocery stores allowed to open on saturday.

Which honestly begs the question: Does that make a PTR drop more likely or less likely.

[huth]

Which honestly begs the question: Does that make a PTR drop more likely or less likely.

Given that they're not in Germany, probably neither, although german servermen may not be permitted to work over the weekend.

[Nyel]

Which honestly begs the question: Does that make a PTR drop more likely or less likely.

What Germany does has zero influence on the PTS. The question was how USA is handling Easter in general, because that’s what matters.

I mean they released Castle Nathria over the Christmas holidays, so it’s not like they couldn’t release the PTS for 9.1 next week. The question is how likely is it, especially when we see what happened with the TBC beta yesterday.

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Okay, with the TBC beta having begun I think it’s save to say that 9.1 PTS will not start in March at all, which pushes 9.1 release even further away.

[razorpax]

Well I think blizzard went screwy

Glad to see something coming out even if it’s a 15 year old game that they are adding mounts and pets to even though there’s no account wide collection

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, no. 1) and 2) are correct. 3) and 4) are not. We have no proof that the Eternal Ones or First Ones are individually stronger than Titans, and for the Eternal Ones it actually looks quite a bit like they're considerably weaker. They govern(ed) different aspects of reality. That doesn't mean they have more raw power.

There's a reason the Nathrezim went for subterfuge rather than open conflict.

He’s wrong when he says the Eternal Ones are stronger than the Titans. They’re on the same level. The only guy you can argue above the Titans and guys like Sargeras is Zovaal.

Regarding the First Ones, it’s already confirmed that they are the cosmic power beyond each cosmic pantheon such as the Titans and co. So, ye.

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Wasn't Zovaal at least confirmed to be stronger than the titans? Plus his whole goddamn plan seems to be trying to unlock the secrets of the First Ones.

Yes. That doesn’t mean the Eternal Ones as a whole are stronger than the Titans. Just means Zovaal and MAYBE the Arbiter are.

[Nyel]

If Zovaal is an Eternal One like Winter Queen, Archon, Denathrius etc, why would he be stronger than them?

[TheFirstOnes]

I'm very hopeful for Drust resolution in 9.2 but they don't feel big enough to get a raid or anything. Just as long as they give us an actual story conclusion, be it a zone with dailies/WQs or a dungeon or whathaveyou.

We've defeated the Nathrezim's creator but they're all still out there. Even if they don't have their own get-out-of-death-free cards, they were operating as part of the Legion when they were all last slain, *before* we killed Argus. So they'd make a great villain for 9.2. And if they don't show up then, then they're my bet for 10.x.

I'm really not sure what to think the 9.3 raid will be, now that we know Torghast is 9.1's raid. We need to deal with the Jailer but to do a second Maw raid would be lame as hell. So hopefully there's some location for him to invade and we stop him just before he gets to his destination. e.g. an Oribos raid and we fight him in front of the Arbiter. It could be actually interesting for us to play the defenders in a raid for once.

As for 10.x, if the Nathrezim don't form the backbone of the story, then I'm on board with everyone saying we're going up against the Light and the Void. Or hell, all six "alignments" at once: Light vs Void, Order/Titan vs Chaos/Fel, Life vs Death. All of them except the realm of Life [the Emerald Dream but on a universal scale, from the sound of it?] seem to mean us harm on some level or another. And yeah I know that the Titan vs. Fel battle is "resolved", but is it? Sargeras isn't dead he's just contained, and while Argus is dead there's still the entire rest of the Burning Legion's army. Just because they're no longer infinite didn't make them all go away.

It really, to me, feels like the machinations of the Nathrezim are the ultimate enemy we face right now, and they're wormed in deep enough in all of these realms that it isn't difficult for them to throw any or all of them at us.

I think in 9.1, we’ll defeat Mal’ganis and co, but Zovaal wins in the end. Then in 9.2, it’ll be about the Gardens of Life, finishing off the Drust completely, us teaming up with the Pantheon of Life, and stopping the Jailer from getting the Winter Queen’s key and gaining the opportunity of controlling the power of Life.

Then, 9.3 could be about Denathrius being freed, the Jailer transversing through the in between to reach Oribos, and us + the eternal ones + the pantheon of life saving Oribos and the Arbiter from Zovaal’s rampage. The raid could end with the Arbiter being awakened and her empowering us to slam tf outta Zovaal.

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If Zovaal is an Eternal One like Winter Queen, Archon, Denathrius etc, why would he be stronger than them?

Because he wields different Magic’s and amps that empower him a ton? Blizzard’s stated multiple times that the Jailer’s been growing stronger throughout the expansion.

Why do you think Sargeras is stronger than the entire Titan Pantheon despite him being a Titan? Cause of the Fel both making him oppose arcane Magic’s well, as well as the fact that the Fel juiced him up. The same way Anima, and Domination Magic’s are amping the Jailer up.

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Besides, we already finished the main plot of Order Vs Disorder. I wouldn’t be shocked if maybe we face Sargeras at the Seat of the Pantheon and go to the realm of Order, and I wouldn’t be shocked if there are Order cults or some shit like that, but outside of that, the main point of that conflict is done.

And outside of Life and Death, all that really remains is Light and Shadow.

[Wangming]

Considering Zovaal is said to be Titan plus plus level, the very fact that he is not yet free from the Maw suggests to me that the average Eternal One might be at least a little bit stronger than average Titans. Also we don't really know much of how Zovaal was bound. Maybe he was depowered during the binding process and it took him his gradual increase in power to reach normal Eternal One levels.

But beyond actual powerlevel, we have narrative significance. Blizzard is writing backwards instead of forward. New players are retconned in that trivialize threats before we even meet them. And that is my problem.