Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makorus]

probably not. the theory that PTR build will be sitting there for longer than usual until after season of mastery begins seems plausible

How does it seem plausible

[Akta]

Yeah, Boralus and City of Gold musics were extremely good, Canticle of Sacrifice too, this is the kind of music that stays in mind. In SL, well... pretty basic.

guess you forgot about that

[Zexaniro]

How does it seem plausible

bc they don't want the 9.2 announcement to overshadow season of mastery launch. im guessing they'll announce it a week or so after season of mastery, but we'll see!

[Lidenbok]

bc they don't want the 9.2 announcement to overshadow season of mastery launch. im guessing they'll announce it a week or so after season of mastery, but we'll see!

I'd understand this argument if we were talking about them launching side by side, but I fail to see the relevancy considering one is content launch and the other is just a reveal of whats to come in probably 4-5 months time.

[SunspotAnims]

WoW's use of musical motifs is my favorite part about it's music. Most major characters at this point have an identifying riff that's used to emphasize their characterization. Similarly so for the game's cultures and history. For instance, the refrain that can be heard throughout Ulduar, Grim Batol, and other places ties the highs and lows of Dwarven history to their Titanic background. It's worldbuilding through music.

Still, I don't think it's a coincidence that some of WoW's most popular songs are the ones that deviate from the typical soundtrack, usually by including vocals or less frequently-used instruments. I think these things should remain a rarity, though, since it's the deviation from the norm that makes them special.

[Dracullus]

They were convinced something is coming on Monday. Then Tuesday. Now today. If nothing comes today, then tommorow. There is no basis to be convinced that it's happening on day X. It's going to happen soon, that's all we know.

...you know we're not 100% serious when we write "it's coming today 7PM guys for sure", right? Right?

[Nyel]

...you know we're not 100% serious when we write "it's coming today 7PM guys for sure", right? Right?

That's not what I was refering to. But several guys in this thread were absolutely convinced to get the announcement on Monday. A post that even adds a time stamp is oviously sarcastic.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

...you know we're not 100% serious when we write "it's coming today 7PM guys for sure", right? Right?

Its possible, that is all.

[Sondrelk]

We aren't. There was a discussion about WoW's music and it lead into a discussion about lack of boss themes, which lead into a discussion of FFXIV's boss music.

We do have boss music though. Usually one theme unique to the final boss, and one other that the rest has to to share.

What we really lack are distinct character specific themes that can be used.

As I mentioned before, there is an amazing rendition of the Night Warrior theme that plays wheb you pacify Tyrande, but characters like her that has actual themes unique to them are rare, even more so when you want memorable ones.

Anduin I think might get a fantastic boss theme. Or at least I hope so, his theme is probably the most recognizable one in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

That's not what I was refering to. But several guys in this thread were absolutely convinced to get the announcement on Monday. A post that even adds a time stamp is oviously sarcastic.

Noone is absolutely sure.
We assume a time, and then assume we are correct because it's more fun to be hyped about a release and then be wrong than it is to assume we are wrong and then do nothing.

[Zulggun]

I think Korthia main theme is very nice. SoD also has some good music too.

[rainhard]

I managed to find at least a memorable moment in every zones music so i wouldn't call it all forgetable.

[Hugnomo]

On the topic of WoW music. While I think it's wonderful, it's not something that generally stays with me in a very impactful way. But when I first heard Ardenweald's music, it stood out as one of the most amazing aspects of the zone. It's probably the music that's most impressed me.

[Hitei]

Im very curious about your rating of music. So apparently praise or public awards are not relevant to you so how do your internal mechanism work? Im suspect its would be a fun read. We could talk music theory if you want, do you play anything? Finally, my undergrad in music will be handy!

Im also interested in other music takes of yours, what do you think about rap or someone Kanye? Is he just popular because he talks fast and makes funny music videos?

Also should this strawman with no comment and link suppose to mean something? Are you trying to say "WOWIE ITS POPULAR BUT I THINKS BAD SO IT MEANS ANYTHING POPULAR MEANS ANYTHING"

Ironic with where we are lmao

You brought up "there are a bunch of awards for this thing" as a defense against something being pointed out as overrated. The link (that's not what a strawman is, my guy) is intended to quite easily prove to you that awards have very little to do with the actual quality of a thing, and even things that are genuinely bad can be heavily awarded. The Big Bang Theory is not bad because it is popular, it is bad because it is a badly written comedy show that appeals to the LCD, and in doing so has been awarded.

Likewise, Kingdom Heart's OST is not bad because it is popular, I would not even call it "bad" in particular. It is simply "okay", and elevated to "amazing" status because people played it when they were 12 and it was the coolest thing ever and now they equate that attachment and affection to any individual aspect of it being fantastic when many were not.

The entire soundtrack (bookend-y parts like Utada's songs aside) is made up of super repetitive (I don't mean that as a judgement, but as an actual structural description), very simple segments that tend to not do anything particularly noteworthy. It's like the JRPG version of elevator music. Which is fine, and it's fine that people like it, but that also doesn't make it a great soundtrack imho.

FFXIV suffers from the above problems of LCD. As draugril pointed out, it attempts to appeal to a wide variety of genres, but whoever is making those choices (Soken?) isn't particularly curating for quality, and instead is just going with what is popular. So you end up with a soundtrack that has medicore/bad iterations of those other genres. They get a pass, or even praise, because the average person (like Big Bang, like KH) isn't really looking any deeper and just equates "I like this game/anime/thing" to "good music".

what do you think about rap or someone Kanye? Is he just popular because he talks fast and makes funny music videos?

The idea that someone can just make a subjective judgement on a major umbrella genre with dozens of subgenres, thousands and thousands of artists and innumerable songs is absurd. There very good rap music and there is absolute trash rap music, and there are popular artists in both. Kanye's popularity is probably a mix of all aspects, good and bad. He is a fantastic artist, but it is not because he talks fast or is funny, nor because he is popular, it is because he is a very skilled producer with a strong understanding of musical composition.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am claiming some static, inverse relationship between popularity and quality, when in reality I am arguing there isn't much of a relationship at all. Quality is extremely low on the list of things that determine if something is popular--occasionally a thing is high enough quality that the other factors are surpassed and it becomes popular because of quality, but that is a rarity, so popular does not mean good (nor does unpopular). FFXIV's soundtrack is popular, just as the opening for whatever anime is the biggest in a season is popular. But like that opening, what it actually is, is something in the not very good to okay range.

So apparently praise or public awards are not relevant to you so how do your internal mechanism work? Im suspect its would be a fun read. We could talk music theory if you want, do you play anything? Finally, my undergrad in music will be handy!

I simply judge each thing as it is. What it's from or whether it's popular is meaningless.

Is it original? Is it well composed? Is it well balanced? Is it repetitive? is the production quality high? does it know how to handle tension and release, or loud and quiet, and have an interesting texture/journey in those regards? Does it make interesting use of the instruments or is it just identical to every other song of its type? Is the singing just there as icing (or vice versa) or is it actually composed into the music as part of the instrumentation? Is it surprising or predictable? Does it fit well into whatever it's being used in, or is it a more generic track that you could slap anywhere with about equal results?

I don't care that FFXIV is "anime", that it is not wow, or that it's popular. I just find the music very low quality because it completely fails in many of the above aspects.

[Grimbold21]

Dunno what you guys are on about. I have the Grizzly Hills, Howling Fjord, Nagrand, Zangarmash, Hellfire Peninsula and Loch Modan themes on my phone.

[TheFirstOnes]

probably not. the theory that PTR build will be sitting there for longer than usual until after season of mastery begins seems plausible

The fuck? No?

- - - Updated - - -

You brought up "there are a bunch of awards for this thing" as a defense against something being pointed out as overrated. The link (that's not what a strawman is, my guy) is intended to quite easily prove to you that awards have very little to do with the actual quality of a thing, and even things that are genuinely bad can be heavily awarded. The Big Bang Theory is not bad because it is popular, it is bad because it is a badly written comedy show that appeals to the LCD, and in doing so has been awarded.

Likewise, Kingdom Heart's OST is not bad because it is popular, I would not even call it "bad" in particular. It is simply "okay", and elevated to "amazing" status because people played it when they were 12 and it was the coolest thing ever and now they equate that attachment and affection to any individual aspect of it being fantastic when many were not.

The entire soundtrack (bookend-y parts like Utada's songs aside) is made up of super repetitive (I don't mean that as a judgement, but as an actual structural description), very simple segments that tend to not do anything particularly noteworthy. It's like the JRPG version of elevator music. Which is fine, and it's fine that people like it, but that also doesn't make it a great soundtrack imho.

FFXIV suffers from the above problems of LCD. As draugril pointed out, it attempts to appeal to a wide variety of genres, but whoever is making those choices (Soken?) isn't particularly curating for quality, and instead is just going with what is popular. So you end up with a soundtrack that has medicore/bad iterations of those other genres. They get a pass, or even praise, because the average person (like Big Bang, like KH) isn't really looking any deeper and just equates "I like this game/anime/thing" to "good music".


The idea that someone can just make a subjective judgement on a major umbrella genre with dozens of subgenres, thousands and thousands of artists and innumerable songs is absurd. There very good rap music and there is absolute trash rap music, and there are popular artists in both. Kanye's popularity is probably a mix of all aspects, good and bad. He is a fantastic artist, but it is not because he talks fast or is funny, nor because he is popular, it is because he is a very skilled producer with a strong understanding of musical composition.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am claiming some static, inverse relationship between popularity and quality, when in reality I am arguing there isn't much of a relationship at all. Quality is extremely low on the list of things that determine if something is popular--occasionally a thing is high enough quality that the other factors are surpassed and it becomes popular because of quality, but that is a rarity, so popular does not mean good (nor does unpopular). FFXIV's soundtrack is popular, just as the opening for whatever anime is the biggest in a season is popular. But like that opening, what it actually is, is something in the not very good to okay range.


I simply judge each thing as it is. What it's from or whether it's popular is meaningless.

Is it original? Is it well composed? Is it well balanced? Is it repetitive? is the production quality high? does it know how to handle tension and release, or loud and quiet, and have an interesting texture/journey in those regards? Does it make interesting use of the instruments or is it just identical to every other song of its type? Is the singing just there as icing (or vice versa) or is it actually composed into the music as part of the instrumentation? Is it surprising or predictable? Does it fit well into whatever it's being used in, or is it a more generic track that you could slap anywhere with about equal results?

I don't care that FFXIV is "anime", that it is not wow, or that it's popular. I just find the music very low quality because it completely fails in many of the above aspects.

I’m not reading all that, I’m just gonna say I disagree tho in that FFXIV’s music does NOT fail in any regard whatsoever.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I disagree with your arguments that I refuse to take 1-2 minutes to read and my thing is perfect. Lol, ok.

[Hitei]

I disagree with your arguments that I refuse to take 1-2 minutes to read and my thing is perfect. Lol, ok.

I don't even mind the tl;dr, but the idea that someone would claim that anything doesn't fail in any regard is a bit silly.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I don't even mind the tl;dr, but the idea that someone would claim that anything doesn't fail in any regard is a bit silly.

Especially when it's not even one piece of music, but the ENTIRE OST of the game.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'd understand this argument if we were talking about them launching side by side, but I fail to see the relevancy considering one is content launch and the other is just a reveal of whats to come in probably 4-5 months time.

Once news and datamining about the next patch hits the news cycle, it would inadvertedly drown out what measly info Blizzard could push out about "WoW Classic Classic: Classic Rehashed". So they do have a certain interest to not overlap it too much, especially since the reception so far has been rather luke-warm.

Edit: In regards to the music discussion, the fable of the frog in the well comes to mind.

[Hyrja]

couple of people on 4chan saying the announcement is later today. Lets see