Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

The majority of the bosses from the final raid using previously available animation skeleton, and the raid itself while looking decent only having a handful of new imagery.

First of all we saw like 3-4 bosses, so kinda not majority. Secondly, re-using skeletons is the norm for this game for vast majority of NPC's. And it has been like that since ever.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I am 100% sure they won't do a "universe reset" for 10.0.

Why?

Because if they totally reboot the universe/send us back in time to WC1 then that means all the work they invested into Tirisfall, Teldrassil (lol), Arathi, and Darkshore is wasted. Those zones would have to once again be entirely rebuilt ground-up. And they very likely would have to rework a lot of the "non-playable" space because now they have to undo the Cataclysm as well.

More likely the revamp is just "Look we updated all the old doodads and we put new quests in. Also surprise the zones we reworked in BFA were part of this Revamp."

It's kinda difficult to guess here. I think WoW is way past the point where the devs actually get to invest that much energy and resources into redoing Azeroth. On the other hand I'm absolutely conviced that at least the writers really want to put all the old shit to flame and remake the world in their image. But at the end of the day I don't believe Blizzard would actually get the resources to even just freshen up all of the world in one fell swoop. At best we continue with piece-meal updates here and there.

[Chickat]

Here's hoping the ptr launches within the next week. Before thanksgiving in the US would be great.

[Nyel]

I do think that 10.0 doesn’t only change how we perceive or play World of Warcraft (aka revamped world or systems), but that it will change its monetization model to be more investment-heavy and that the 2-year expansion cycle will be changed to fit into the new model. I’ll write something about it in an own thread when I find the time later this day.

[Hellspawn]

I am 100% sure they won't do a "universe reset" for 10.0.

Why?

Because if they totally reboot the universe/send us back in time to WC1 then that means all the work they invested into Tirisfall, Teldrassil (lol), Arathi, and Darkshore is wasted. Those zones would have to once again be entirely rebuilt ground-up. And they very likely would have to rework a lot of the "non-playable" space because now they have to undo the Cataclysm as well.

More likely the revamp is just "Look we updated all the old doodads and we put new quests in. Also surprise the zones we reworked in BFA were part of this Revamp."

A universe reset would not even work, most of the playable races would not even be there.

I doubt there will be a reset, that can really only archived with a new game.

A (gradual) world revamp seems more likely. They had teased threads/problems on Azeroth... we got the sword in Silithus, Dragon Isle and some Faction stuff (Turalyon)

I wonder if during the Zovaal fight anything happens that will directly affect Azeroth. At this point I could see that nothing like that happens and the story closes of.

[Hugnomo]

I don't think they're gonna do a reset in the chronological sense. I think they're going to have reality altered by the Jailer, Sylvanas or us. Which doesn't have to mean Arathi or zones like that have to go to waste. But it can be a trigger for a revamp of many of the zones, and even narrative wise, without having to go back in time. Just after that moment, things are changed.

[Varodoc]

N'Zoth actually won.

We "fought" N'Zoth in an alternate dimension called "Ny'alotha" which, being N'Zoth's domain and all, could have had all sorts of mental mindgames, traps, and tricks. It could have all been just a dream.

The Visions of N'Zoth taking place in a Void Stormwind and Void Orgrimmar were also said to be located in Ny'alotha, but they are not real. Ny'alotha is both N'Zoth's seat, and a twisted reflection of what would happen if the Black Empire returned. Ny'alotha both exists, and doesn't exist at the same time. Ny'alotha happened but also didn't happen at the same time.

So we both killed and didn't kill N'Zoth at the same time.

Danuser said in an interview around the time 8.3 released that "we shouldn't forget what N'Zoth taught us about visions, and that we technically didn't fight N'Zoth on Azeroth but on Ny'alotha, and that is an important distinction".

N'Zoth is also infamous for being the trickster god, the most cunning, elusive, and manipulative of the 4 Old Gods.

So in 9.2 it's revealed in the Janitor fight that N'Zoth never died, took advantage of us leaving for Shadowlands, revived the Black Empire, and took over Azeroth and the World Soul. Janitor uses the big red button to reoriginate everything, erase N'Zoth, and rip-off Realm Reborn from Final Fantasy. But the Janitor also dies in the process because he's a trash villain.

Cue 10.0.

[Sondrelk]

I don't think they're gonna do a reset in the chronological sense. I think they're going to have reality altered by the Jailer, Sylvanas or us. Which doesn't have to mean Arathi or zones like that have to go to waste. But it can be a trigger for a revamp of many of the zones, and even narrative wise, without having to go back in time. Just after that moment, things are changed.

But why though? The big draw of a world revamp should be returning to Azeroth and see the various zones in various states of disrepair or repair since the last time.
An event that literally changes stuff randomly is maybe okay for some boring zones or if you want to reveal hidden lands like Pandaria, but otherwise it would just rob players of seeing what has happened to zones.

[Dracullus]

Here's hoping the ptr launches within the next week. Before thanksgiving in the US would be great.

I wonder if there are some unexpected technical difficulties from battle net side. PTR usually start just few days after vendor build, it's strange they revealed it now without PTR (competition has release month from now, nothing forced them to do it THIS week) and battle.net try to update everything like crazy last few days.

[Nathanyel]

Is it me, or does the wording they use indicate that the next expansion will be something completely different. Something we have never seen before. It almosts sounds like they will start over like some sorts.

I say this not to downplay, but to keep you from expecting too much: don't read too much into that. It means a new "book", a new season or cycle of WoW is starting. WC3/Vanilla up to Shadowlands was a big cycle with recurring themes: Faction Conflict, Burning Legion, Old Gods as the core story hooks.

I take that statement to mean that 10.0 will do away (for now) with older themes and mantras of Warcraft, both in story and gameplay (e.g. cross-faction grouping is very likely)

[Teriz]

I am 100% sure they won't do a "universe reset" for 10.0.

Why?

Because if they totally reboot the universe/send us back in time to WC1 then that means all the work they invested into Tirisfall, Teldrassil (lol), Arathi, and Darkshore is wasted. Those zones would have to once again be entirely rebuilt ground-up. And they very likely would have to rework a lot of the "non-playable" space because now they have to undo the Cataclysm as well.

More likely the revamp is just "Look we updated all the old doodads and we put new quests in. Also surprise the zones we reworked in BFA were part of this Revamp."

Maybe not a universe reset, but isn't it possible that we get a Cataclysm style revamp where the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor get revamped and updated? For example, Worgen take back Gilneas, the Alliance takes back Lordaeran and Stormgrade, Westfall becomes a lush farmland again, the Undead get a new homeland (maybe Northrend or Southshore?), the Gnomes retake Gnomeregan, Theramore gets repopulated, Menethil Harbor and Southshore is restored, the Goblins return to Kezan, the Orcs spread into Azshara, Ogrimmar gets updated from its look in Cataclysm, Gadgetzhan turns into the metropolis we saw in Hearthstone, etc. 10.0 can be an opportunity to tie up those dangling storylines that have been just hanging for over a decade.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I do think that 10.0 doesn’t only change how we perceive or play World of Warcraft (aka revamped world or systems), but that it will change its monetization model to be more investment-heavy and that the 2-year expansion cycle will be changed to fit into the new model. I’ll write something about it in an own thread when I find the time later this day.

Doesn't make much sense to me when they literally are going to crunch for another 2 year cycle for 10.0. There's no way they will change the format of Expansions. I think this is such a ridiculous notion that it is truly baffling. It does not compute with any logic at all.

This company is notorious for not utilizing the WoW Shop properly and to maximize monetization. They use cheap strategies like adding only 1 shop item and usually when they do add something to the shop it is tied to the 6 month sub promotion. They are terrible at monetization and are also terrible at garnering revenue from the WoW fanbase.

Why would they decide to risk everything by changing the monetization format that is one of the basis for why WoW continues to be a massive profit maker? The expansion sets on a 2 year cycle is a big part of the revenue stream together with WoW Tokens keeping the game upkeep going during the the cycles. Not only that but players are too stupid to realize that they are losing out on content and are willingly accepting less content for more money over time as seen with the reaction to 9.3 being just whooshed out of existence.

I genuinely find this absurd, this idea that they are going to change their business model because of 2 expansion failures is laughable at this point. They are going to rush another expansion for Q4 2022 with a burned out workforce and will run a gaslighting campaign with impunity. Yet, for some reason you think they are going to change the model when we know this model works well still and the revenue still is going up for World of Warcraft. It just makes zero sense to me.

This is some crackpot level conspiracy theory nonsense. There's nothing that indicates that we are going to go for Tom Chilton style nonsense because he failed. That's how it is. They have no incentive to change the formula here.

They can barely run the game on a 2 year cycle and we're seeing that. Reducing the cycle is non sustainable and also will burn and churn the workforce until there's no one left. Also, again we know pretty much with certainty that the next expansion is going to be a chaotic clusterfuck failure because of the ruleset the developers have been given for it with it being a full revamp of Azeroth (Cataclysm level issues with Production) + Churned and Burned out Workforce working from home + Expansion Alpha starting in April with release in November (GOOD LUCK!) also with the added possibility of the narrative returning to the Azeroth is gonna be invaded by 3 Cosmic Forces nonsense.

[Cherry123]

so the book is mostly 9.0 as i thought

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...78160297447424

[Nyel]

Doesn't make much sense to me when they literally are going to crunch for another 2 year cycle for 10.0. There's no way they will change the format of Expansions. I think this is such a ridiculous notion that it is truly baffling. It does not compute with any logic at all.

This company is notorious for not utilizing the WoW Shop properly and to maximize monetization. They use cheap strategies like adding only 1 shop item and usually when they do add something to the shop it is tied to the 6 month sub promotion. They are terrible at monetization and are also terrible at garnering revenue from the WoW fanbase.

Why would they decide to risk everything by changing the monetization format that is one of the basis for why WoW continues to be a massive profit maker? The expansion sets on a 2 year cycle is a big part of the revenue stream together with WoW Tokens keeping the game upkeep going during the the cycles. Not only that but players are too stupid to realize that they are losing out on content and are willingly accepting less content for more money over time as seen with the reaction to 9.3 being just whooshed out of existence.

I genuinely find this absurd, this idea that they are going to change their business model because of 2 expansion failures is laughable at this point. They are going to rush another expansion for Q4 2022 with a burned out workforce and will run a gaslighting campaign with impunity. Yet, for some reason you think they are going to change the model when we know this model works well still and the revenue still is going up for World of Warcraft. It just makes zero sense to me.

This is some crackpot level conspiracy theory nonsense. There's nothing that indicates that we are going to go for Tom Chilton style nonsense because he failed. That's how it is. They have no incentive to change the formula here.

They can barely run the game on a 2 year cycle and we're seeing that. Reducing the cycle is non sustainable and also will burn and churn the workforce until there's no one left. Also, again we know pretty much with certainty that the next expansion is going to be a chaotic clusterfuck failure because of the ruleset the developers have been given for it with it being a full revamp of Azeroth (Cataclysm level issues with Production) + Churned and Burned out Workforce working from home + Expansion Alpha starting in April with release in November (GOOD LUCK!)

Wow, what a rage post. I didn’t even get the chance to explain what I was talking about, yet you tried to denounce it by projecting what I was going to suggest. Edit: I'll present my vision of future WoW, but I didn't gave time to do it yet.

[Hellspawn]

so the book is mostly 9.0 as i thought

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...78160297447424

I think people may interpret this the wrong way.
It could also just mean that Golden just knows where Sylvanas ends up in the end.. and probably how this all ends... that are the 10% she knows.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think people may interpret this the wrong way.
It could also just mean that Golden just knows where Sylvanas ends up in the end.. and probably how this all ends... that are the 10% she knows.

I'm sure the whole wow team knows how this all ends. Her not being on the WoW team is an interesting find though. I know people hate her but I hardly have an issue with her.



OT: I don't expect a 10.0 announcement at gameawards, I just don't. I find that unlikely and I'm not cynical

[SunspotAnims]

Maybe not a universe reset, but isn't it possible that we get a Cataclysm style revamp where the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor get revamped and updated? For example, Worgen take back Gilneas, the Alliance takes back Lordaeran and Stormgrade, Westfall becomes a lush farmland again, the Undead get a new homeland (maybe Northrend or Southshore?), the Gnomes retake Gnomeregan, Theramore gets repopulated, Menethil Harbor and Southshore is restored, the Goblins return to Kezan, the Orcs spread into Azshara, Ogrimmar gets updated from its look in Cataclysm, Gadgetzhan turns into the metropolis we saw in Hearthstone, etc. 10.0 can be an opportunity to tie up those dangling storylines that have been just hanging for over a decade.

This is exactly how I've interpreted, and would prefer, a potential world revamp in the future. The world has been in stasis since it was last massively changed in Cataclysm, with the only updates occurring when it's relevant to the current plot, but as far as I can tell the entire world has been changing these past 10+ years and we just haven't seen the bulk of those changes reflected in-game yet. A world revamp would be an opportunity to see how places have changed while we weren't focusing on them.

[Kohtra]

Maybe not a universe reset, but isn't it possible that we get a Cataclysm style revamp where the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor get revamped and updated? For example, Worgen take back Gilneas, the Alliance takes back Lordaeran and Stormgrade, Westfall becomes a lush farmland again, the Undead get a new homeland (maybe Northrend or Southshore?), the Gnomes retake Gnomeregan, Theramore gets repopulated, Menethil Harbor and Southshore is restored, the Goblins return to Kezan, the Orcs spread into Azshara, Ogrimmar gets updated from its look in Cataclysm, Gadgetzhan turns into the metropolis we saw in Hearthstone, etc. 10.0 can be an opportunity to tie up those dangling storylines that have been just hanging for over a decade.

This is my hope. Also, for the love of God please drain the Thousand Needles and make it a canyon again. Modern WoW graphics would make it a really cool zone.

[shoc]

This is exactly how I've interpreted, and would prefer, a potential world revamp in the future. The world has been in stasis since it was last massively changed in Cataclysm, with the only updates occurring when it's relevant to the current plot, but as far as I can tell the entire world has been changing these past 10+ years and we just haven't seen the bulk of those changes reflected in-game yet. A world revamp would be an opportunity to see how places have changed while we weren't focusing on them.

If there is an order of operations to this, I think they will revamp Northrend first before anything else. Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms are old but Northrend is older. Outland got de-facto revamped in WoD, and Pandaria still holds up, but Northrend is ancient. It would also make sense if the next expansion is the Jailer's invasion of Azeroth, that it would take place in Northrend. It would be interesting to see how practically every corner of Northrend, from the Tuskarr to the Taunka to the Drakkari to the Frost and Iron Dwarves to Ulduar has changed in all the years since we've been there. Twilight Dragon plot is relevant, we get Titans and Vrykul again, maybe the Twilights Hammer succeeds in resurrecting Yogg for us.

[Teriz]

This is exactly how I've interpreted, and would prefer, a potential world revamp in the future. The world has been in stasis since it was last massively changed in Cataclysm, with the only updates occurring when it's relevant to the current plot, but as far as I can tell the entire world has been changing these past 10+ years and we just haven't seen the bulk of those changes reflected in-game yet. A world revamp would be an opportunity to see how places have changed while we weren't focusing on them.

I think this is why people are not really interested in another cosmic expansion.

Why are we going to other worlds when there's people starving in Westfall, or Southshore is a toxic wasteland crawling with undead? I'd be much more interested in doing new quests in a reclaimed Plaguelands or around a restored Lordaeron with a resurgent Scarlet Crusade, a Sylvanas cult, or something along those lines instead of fighting some Void monsters on another planet.