Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[The Stormbringer]

Are we agreeing that the next expansion needs at least a new class?

That would be nice. I know there are tons of nay-sayers who disagree, but I still think a Tinker class would be great for coming back to Azeroth. At this point, the technology of Warcraft is pretty iconic, whether it be Goblins or Gnomes (or something else), and I'd love a new class, even if it was only a two-spec like Demon Hunters.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That would be nice. I know there are tons of nay-sayers who disagree, but I still think a Tinker class would be great for coming back to Azeroth. At this point, the technology of Warcraft is pretty iconic, whether it be Goblins or Gnomes (or something else), and I'd love a new class, even if it was only a two-spec like Demon Hunters.

Its not that I don't want Tinkers, I just don't think they need to add another to the load of classes. In fact I'm quite in different to it.

[Crysis]

Its not that I don't want Tinkers, I just don't think they need to add another to the load of classes.

They do, if they want to attract new and old players. No new content will provide enough of a reason to come back like this.

[Marlamin]

These are fucking gorgeous. I'm leaving the full quote in since it's been a few days, but damn... how have we missed these? Absolutely stunning.

We didn't, it's been widely talked about several times.

[Teriz]

Any1 see it going the same? And if yes, do you think Blizzard can make Tinkers fun to play?

That completely depends on how they implement the class. The good news is that unlike Demon Hunters, there's a LOT of design space for a mechanical/technology class. There's actually enough material to make 2 classes if they were so inclined, because you have the mechanical technology of the Goblins and Gnomes, and the more Magical Artificer technology of the Draenei and Nightborne. They can go silly with the Gnome and Goblin aesthetic, or go for a bit more serious standard tech-class route that incorporates a wider variety of races. There's also the Goblin Alchemist hero from WC3 whose tech-based abilities can be incorporated into the healing spec.

People want a new ranged and healing spec, and a "Tinker" class can fulfill those wants rather easily.

Yeah, sure does. Ranged class please

I think regardless of what the next class is, yeah, it HAS to be ranged.

[Black Rider]

Are we agreeing that the next expansion needs at least a new class?

Yeah, sure does. Ranged class please

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Define "basics." Gameplay-wise, IMO, BfA and SL were simply following the "basic" standard that Legion set. Even if BfA and SL are technically superior, I think we can agree that neither were as well received. We need new and novel experiences. Narratively? Yeah, reel it back in. Do some character work.

To be honest, more content (Dungeons, Reputation Hubs, Raids AND EVER FUCKING GREEN CONTENT) is my main key focus for Blizzard to recognize. The Island Content per major patch is getting extremely stale. I think they need to reinvent it or take a break from it so that when we do return to the Island structured content in new patches that it feels more fresh.

Certainly, I think their reliance on Box Features has done more harm than good and the lack of Risk Management on the internal side of the company has been extremely disappointing. People just want more WoW to consume and we're seeing that is a big issue right now. If they just focus on the World and the content within said World while pumping it up and keeping a consistent release schedule people will find the game much better.

Obviously, I think the narrative situation can only really be resolved if we don't go back to current Azeroth as I feel the Narrative Team will just start a clusterfuck chain of events with Turalyon becoming Yrel 2.0 and suddenly Azeroth is just a cosmic battleground and it loses the audience extremely quickly.

I don't know they just need to scale it back and start an actual story and have it develop at a pace that isn't extremely fast like with Shadowlands.

Fundamentally I think as long as they keep the basic content loop of more content in mind rather than bogging it down with Systems that again just end up being extreme time wasters for the developers at this point since most people don't find any enjoyment in opening a UI and clicking on a square button that goes up in value until it is maxed and then going to the next square button.

Obviously, I still believe that the Narrative situation is completely unsalvageable UNLESS Danuser pulls his Marvel card and lets Zovaal or Sylvanas reset the universe. Returning to previous Azeroth at this point after what happened with Shadowlands is not going to work very well due to the amount of storylines that await us back on Azeroth and we have seen with BFA that they can't keep such expansions with the regard they should and instead just bulldozing through every storyline without any regard of fan expectation.

Oh and also they have to fix the Campaign issue where players are left waiting for new narrative content for 8+ months.

Obviously as someone who would love some type of Roleplaying support in the game, I'd love if we as players could have Custom Factions (Cenarion Circle, Earthen Ring, Argent Crusade and so forth) or even become Traitors to our original Faction (Alliance/Horde). It's just flavor but it could be expanded going forward since it is obvious Cross Faction is coming. Letting players make these choices would just be really fun, but I know it won't happen. Haha!

Yeah, I'd like Housing/Musical Instruments and a lot more obviously.

[Valysar]

New week, new hopes.

[Nyel]

So, now that so many agreed on that we need a new class: what class do you think it could be? Let's move our fan fiction out of this and approach it from a reasonable / likely standpoint.

Then the only class left that's plausible for me is Tinker / Mechanic. Anything Dragon-themed (even if we're going Dragon Isles) feels completely left of the field.

[Valysar]

It obviously HAS to be a mail class, and a caster. Dragon-themed class would be perfect for mail.

[draugril]

So, now that so many agreed on that we need a new class: what class do you think it could be? Let's move our fan fiction out of this and approach it from a reasonable / likely standpoint.

Then the only class left that's plausible for me is Tinker / Mechanic. Anything Dragon-themed (even if we're going Dragon Isles) feels completely left of the field.

A dragon-specific class does not exist in the WarCraft franchise, at least in terms of canon. But dragons do. So much of the lore is tied into them in some way. There's more than enough here from which to create a class. Honestly, after seeing Thrall empowered temporarily, I wouldn't put this outside the realm of possibility and I've been wanting it since.

Tinker, I feel, needed to be a class at release. It would be like releasing "Warrior" now. It's too difficult to tie it into the overall theme of an expansion now that we're years in.

Objectively, I feel that we'll Necromancer/Dark Ranger/Death-themed-class-based-on-post-SL-Sylvanas. They won't give us straight up Necromancers, but they'll "subvert our expectations" somehow and give it to us, much like how they gave us High Elves.

[Teriz]

So, now that so many agreed on that we need a new class: what class do you think it could be? Let's move our fan fiction out of this and approach it from a reasonable / likely standpoint.

Then the only class left that's plausible for me is Tinker / Mechanic. Anything Dragon-themed (even if we're going Dragon Isles) feels completely left of the field.

There are the Dragon-based heroes from HotS, and Blizzard has previously used HotS for class concepts and abilities;

https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Alexstrasza
https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Deathwing
https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Chromie

That said, your conclusion IS backed by the allocation of WC3's hero abilities within the current class lineup. The only remaining two heroes from WC3 whose abilities were NEVER assigned to any WoW classes are the Tinker and Alchemist heroes; Two Goblins that use tech abilities.

[Sondrelk]

It obviously HAS to be a mail class, and a caster. Dragon-themed class would be perfect for mail.

It could be cloth or plate as well. Leather is unlikely given how Blizzard acknowledged the surplus of them in Legion, but that also opened up the possibility of Mail continuing to be the underrepresented class in WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

A dragon-specific class does not exist in the WarCraft franchise, at least in terms of canon. But dragons do. So much of the lore is tied into them in some way. There's more than enough here from which to create a class. Honestly, after seeing Thrall empowered temporarily, I wouldn't put this outside the realm of possibility and I've been wanting it since.

Tinker, I feel, needed to be a class at release. It would be like releasing "Warrior" now. It's too difficult to tie it into the overall theme of an expansion now that we're years in.

Objectively, I feel that we'll Necromancer/Dark Ranger/Death-themed-class-based-on-post-SL-Sylvanas. They won't give us straight up Necromancers, but they'll "subvert our expectations" somehow and give it to us, much like how they gave us High Elves.

MoP had a very conspicuous group of 3 dragonsworn on Timeless Isle that very unsubtly hinted at the three class roles if nothing else.
Could just have been a developer in-joke, but it was very clearly rooted in canon with the three dragonsworn explaining they helped dragons after they got depowered.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

It has to be Tinker for me.

[Grimbold21]

You want a new class while maintaing the current talent system, wherein a few select choices remain prevalent, while others are near (if not completely) obsolete? You want a new class without adding a new talent row?

It's like giving the underlying problem a fresh coat of paint in the hopes it goes away.

[huth]

That would be nice. I know there are tons of nay-sayers who disagree, but I still think a Tinker class would be great for coming back to Azeroth. At this point, the technology of Warcraft is pretty iconic, whether it be Goblins or Gnomes (or something else), and I'd love a new class, even if it was only a two-spec like Demon Hunters.

I just hope if they do it, race will play a major factor in looks. Malfunctioning hightech for gnomes, exploding rickety contraptions for gnomes, Crystals for Draenei, Golems for Blood Elves... you get the point.

[draugril]

MoP had a very conspicuous group of 3 dragonsworn on Timeless Isle that very unsubtly hinted at the three class roles if nothing else.
Could just have been a developer in-joke, but it was very clearly rooted in canon with the three dragonsworn explaining they helped dragons after they got depowered.

To be fair, it's there in all but name. But they never stamped the "dragonsworn" name on the relationship. There are tons of mortals in thrall to dragons, with Thrall himself showcasing the concept center-stage, but they've never implied that it is a class. It's more of a relationship or an organization.

[Ersula]

Yes, but it doesn't matter if you consider the fact that we didn't get x.3 patch for this expansion and the fact that the expansion development scope is much larger than Shadowlands.

There's also multitude of employee reasons why this is not looking good.

Alpha testing has nothing to do with patches. It's not as clear-cut as teams for other games, but essentially most of the WoW crew is working on an expansion release while a smaller group of people develop the major content patches & as devs have clarified: They don't start working on content patches until the expansion release date is announced.

You shouldn't attribute the release of an expansion to poor content patches *unless* the expansion is delayed after the date is announced: Which it was for Shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -

You want a new class while maintaing the current talent system, wherein a few select choices remain prevalent, while others are near (if not completely) obsolete? You want a new class without adding a new talent row?

It's like giving the underlying problem a fresh coat of paint in the hopes it goes away.

Not having a new class won't fix that problem either. They've been allegedly trying to fix this problem for a decade & have never succeeded, not for all classes at least.

[Nyel]

There are the Dragon-based heroes from HotS, and Blizzard has previously used HotS for class concepts and abilities;

https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Alexstrasza
https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Deathwing
https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Chromie

That said, your conclusion IS backed by the allocation of WC3's hero abilities within the current class lineup. The only remaining two heroes from WC3 whose abilities were NEVER assigned to any WoW classes are the Tinker and Alchemist heroes; Two Goblins that use tech abilities.

I personally would love to have a mix of both honestly. Alchemist can be the healing spec for Tinker. The other specs are heavily based on the Azerite skills we had in BfA (although I would love Azerite healing spells as well).

- - - Updated - - -

A dragon-specific class does not exist in the WarCraft franchise, at least in terms of canon. But dragons do. So much of the lore is tied into them in some way. There's more than enough here from which to create a class. Honestly, after seeing Thrall empowered temporarily, I wouldn't put this outside the realm of possibility and I've been wanting it since.

Tinker, I feel, needed to be a class at release. It would be like releasing "Warrior" now. It's too difficult to tie it into the overall theme of an expansion now that we're years in.

Objectively, I feel that we'll Necromancer/Dark Ranger/Death-themed-class-based-on-post-SL-Sylvanas. They won't give us straight up Necromancers, but they'll "subvert our expectations" somehow and give it to us, much like how they gave us High Elves.

I don’t know. I think we’re past the point of another Death-themed class. And while I like the concepts for the Dragon classes, I just can’t imagine it to be part of WoW. It’s so random for me to think about a class based on the Dragon aspects. Don’t get me wrong, I would love that, but it feels just too… out of the blue to be true.

Azerite laid a great foundation for Tinkers and half of the animations basically exist already due to Essences and the Tinker-NPCs we had in BfA. Why waste all of this?

That’s my reasoning for Tinker. They wouldn’t have to create a lot as the foundation was laid in BfA already and man, most Azerite skills we had looked phenomenal.

[AngerFork]

You want a new class while maintaing the current talent system, wherein a few select choices remain prevalent, while others are near (if not completely) obsolete? You want a new class without adding a new talent row?

It's like giving the underlying problem a fresh coat of paint in the hopes it goes away.

The problem with this thought is that there really isn't a good way to redo the talent system to not have some choices stay obsolete. The old talent system had it that way, the current one does, talent systems from other MMOs do...even things that are supposed to be updated talent systems like Soulbinds or early Artifacts still had some choices that were objectively wrong at that point.

It's still worth improving & is definitely well overdue for some sort of an overhaul at this point, I'm just not sure that you have to hold off all new classes/specs in the meantime. Rather, try to work them in with whatever new setup you have. Might even make for a good test case as to how the new setup should work.