Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Chickat]

I like the theory of "The First Ones knew their lifespan was coming to an end, so they reincarnated as the Titans, and were only able to pass on partial/fragment knowledge and memories."

Maybe they encased themselves in planets to be reborn. Azeroth is the prime first one.

[Marlamin]

Jesus Christ people, can we please stop bickering and talk about the new stuff and speculation? Like this thread is supposed to be about?

This, let's get back on track!

[Relapses]

Why are you here again, this thread was so peaceful without your presence. You have no other purpose than to assume that everyone who are anti-Blizzard are literally 100% anti-Blizzard except I'm literally one of the biggest shills for more Microtransaction and more monetization in World of Warcraft. I literally want the business side to be run better and more properly to monetize all the people who still play WoW.

It's just really odd to me how you try so hard to see everyone who's against your views as hostiles that need to be called out for beheading. It's really weird.

I'll post wherever and however the fuck I please, thanks. And I'm not assuming anything other than what I've seen you put forward for discussion on the topic to which I'm currently responding. Toxic, pointless cynicism about everything Blizzard does or doesn't do is one of the most endemic issues with this community and I'll call it out whenever I see it. Shitting on the PTR for existing is about as meaningless a debate we can possibly have.

[The Stormbringer]

Maybe they encased themselves in planets to be reborn. Azeroth is the prime first one.

Perhaps. Though, the name of the new raid potentially indicates otherwise. A Sepulcher is a grave, after all, which makes it the "Grave of the First Ones". Now, this could just be metaphorical, as in it being their last great work, or a monument to them that will last for all time, or something like that, but it'd be cool if we saw some First One corpses floating in the distance at some point.

[huth]

Or the two halves fused together to create someone completely brand new. Part Banshee, part Elf.

Would that make her a banf or an elshee?

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps. Though, the name of the new raid potentially indicates otherwise. A Sepulcher is a grave, after all, which makes it the "Grave of the First Ones". Now, this could just be metaphorical, as in it being their last great work, or a monument to them that will last for all time, or something like that, but it'd be cool if we saw some First One corpses floating in the distance at some point.

For all we know, it could just be because it makes afterlives.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I know this is crazy but what if the Dev Preview gave us a false perception of what Zereth Mortis is. There's just a lot of stuff in the Sepulcher that makes me think that it is not just for Afterlives and the fact that there's this weird sense of experimentation as if it was the Sandbox Mode for the First Ones (aka The Founders) before they created the Warcraft Universe.

But, then again I think Danuser has made me insane at this point. I just don't believe anything of the narrative anymore because of how Danuser seemingly has wanted to instill that whole idea that nothing is what it seems.

[Grimbold21]

Lmfao, if you think I post on this forum for "happy little updoots," I'm convinced you haven't ever read one of my posts.

You are entirely correct.

I have only read your posts relatively recent, and in the context in which they were made, they were enough for me to make the comment above, following what you said to the other poster.

I wouldn't say you're looking for confirmation bias, but you're not interested in being challenged either. You're "walking around" labelling remarks negative of Blizzard as cynical, as people just being gullible for whom they listen or they subscribe to.

Point in case being your previous reduction of that same negativity as somehow being indicative of listening to Asmongold, which to you just facilitates your stance, since apparently that youtuber has nothing of value to offer and anyone remotely using anything he has said is not worth listening to.

Your sig is also partially evidence of that, with its cheap recycling of the "how do you know someone is vegan?" trope. Again, as if being a FFXIV player automatically undermines what they say regarding WoW.

Point being, don't pretend you're better than your targets, cause all you're doing is using the tired old tactic of figuring out what they may subscribe to, so you can place them into boxes that somehow allow you to condescendingly dismiss their opinions.

[The Stormbringer]

I know this is crazy but what if the Dev Preview gave us a false perception of what Zereth Mortis is. There's just a lot of stuff in the Sepulcher that makes me think that it is not just for Afterlives and the fact that there's this weird sense of experimentation as if it was the Sandbox Mode for the First Ones (aka The Founders) before they created the Warcraft Universe.

But, then again I think Danuser has made me insane at this point. I just don't believe anything of the narrative anymore because of how Danuser seemingly has wanted to instill that whole idea that nothing is what it seems.

Perhaps they created the afterlife first, and were testing around with things for the living world while they were there, before eventually moving on?

[draugril]

I know this is crazy but what if the Dev Preview gave us a false perception of what Zereth Mortis is. There's just a lot of stuff in the Sepulcher that makes me think that it is not just for Afterlives and the fact that there's this weird sense of experimentation as if it was the Sandbox Mode for the First Ones (aka The Founders) before they created the Warcraft Universe.

But, then again I think Danuser has made me insane at this point. I just don't believe anything of the narrative anymore because of how Danuser seemingly has wanted to instill that whole idea that nothing is what it seems.

A mystery is fine. When every narrative thread is a mystery, and they're only resolved by more mysteries... why invest in that story at all? When it's going out of its way to subvert its own path for the sake of tripping up your expecations?

[Relapses]

You are entirely correct.

I have only read your posts relatively recent, and in the context in which they were made, they were enough for me to make the comment above, following what you said to the other poster.

I wouldn't say you're looking for confirmation bias, but you're not interested in being challenged either. You're "walking around" labelling remarks negative of Blizzard as cynical, as people just being gullible for whom they listen or they subscribe to.

Point in case being your previous reduction of that same negativity as somehow being indicative of listening to Asmongold, which to you just facilitates your stance, since apparently that youtuber has nothing of value to offer and anyone remotely using anything he has said is not worth listening to.

Your sig is also partially evidence of that, with its cheap recycling of the "how do you know someone is vegan?" trope. Again, as if being a FFXIV player automatically undermines what they say regarding WoW.

Point being, don't pretend you're better than your targets, cause all you're doing is using the tired old tactic of figuring out what they may subscribe to, so you can place them into boxes that somehow allow you to condescendingly dismiss their opinions.

This is veering incredibly off topic so this will be my last response to this -- my issue with this community has always been the amount of negativity circlejerking there is about literally any topic. It's reached a point where very few people want to discuss anything about the game, they just want to give each other internet high fives for having the same pointlessly negative outlooks about everything. It drowns out the ability to have legitimate constructive conversation about anything WoW-related. (And yes, I understand that this post is also an example of exactly that.) I'm not pretending my stance is unapproachable and I hardly believe my singular viewpoint to be the only one that matters, I just hate what this community has become in recent years because I think it's one of the main reasons the developers have such difficulty finding ways to respond to it. If you want to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me.

[Sondrelk]

I coudl get behind the idea that the first ones reincarnated as Titans in order to continue their work. Or at least that they create pantheons in their own image, meaning there always ends up being a traitor and such.
Hopefully at least we don't learn that the First Ones still exist somewhere, I feel that would throw the cosmic balance thing way out of whack if there is actually a layer of immortal something or others running around capable of fixing everything. Better then that they simply created it and then died, either just regular died or got reincarnated in some way into either the Titan pantheon or the pantheons in general.

The fact that both Zovaal and Sargeras are traitors to the grand cycle championed by the rest of their kind, and that both have a special interest in Azeroth just seems like too much of a coincidence to me.
Well either that or it's just recycling plotlines. Either seems likely at this point.

[Grimbold21]

This is veering incredibly off topic so this will be my last response to this -- my issue with this community has always been the amount of negativity circlejerking there is about literally any topic. It's reached a point where very few people want to discuss anything about the game, they just want to give each other internet high fives for having the same pointlessly negative outlooks about everything. It drowns out the ability to have legitimate constructive conversation about anything WoW-related. (And yes, I understand that this post is also an example of exactly that.) I'm not pretending my stance is unapproachable and I hardly believe my singular viewpoint to be the only one that matters, I just hate what this community has become in recent years because I think it's one of the main reasons the developers have such difficulty finding ways to respond to it. If you want to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me.

Oh, I do understand very well the temptation of reducing someone to a couple of labels and suggesting that all the people making them want is to have their opinions validated.
And in the context of negativity, it's an easy reduction to make, since negativity is far more easier to express than positivy.

But like I said, it's a temptation, and as far as I could tell, the poster you quoted was being critical yes, but there was nothing that I noticed that indicated them wanting to validation. Hell, I would even argue that in the midst of all negativity and criticism, it would be hard to distinguish one from the other.

However, once more, you didn't do yourself any favours by being incredibly reductionist.

[huth]

Perhaps they created the afterlife first, and were testing around with things for the living world while they were there, before eventually moving on?

Or they just build multiple of these facilities on the same basic blueprint, and some machines have multiple functions that aren't normally being used here.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Perhaps they created the afterlife first, and were testing around with things for the living world while they were there, before eventually moving on?

Eternity's End, The Eternal Cycle.. The End of the Eternal Cycle. Rebirth into a universe without the cycle or ending the cycle. Again, so much of the story has become about Sci-fi concepts and I was very worried we would get into Simulation Theory stuff. Especially with how it seems things are going. The First Ones not coming to stop Zovaal indicates they are either dead or the theory that they became the Pantheon of Order. The Cycle is fueled by Anima from mortal beings from the Great Beyond. But, the Pantheon of Order did not create mortals that was the Old Gods doing and Void corrupting Titan constructions with the Curse of Flesh. However we saw with WoD that Life itself could create life that could feed the cycle too. Life and Void orchestrating what was necessary for the Eternal Cycle to continue to feed Azeroth potentially or to just keep the Simulation going for Light vs Void and Azeroth was the failsafe of the Cycle.

The entirety of Zereth Mortis feels like a Sandbox Mode, it's all free-form and nonsensical. The First Ones creating the Pantheon of Death in such a way by 3D Printing them. It certainly makes you wonder. I don't know. It just seems to me that everything is amiss with Zereth Mortis just like 9.0 and 9.1 narrrative was extremely off putting and made you question everything.

So much makes no sense since the Simulation Theory has only really cared about the Light and Void with Void winning in the end but the fight for domination of the Cosmos between Light and Void was very much calculable with each simulation. But, Azeroth had no place in such a simulation and the universe we're in it seems Death won completely and turned the Cosmic War over its head with its shackles.

I don't know I'm genuinely confused by a lot of this at this point. I need more of the story here as it seems they are trying to be more profound with all these puzzleboxes than most of their general audience who will just go "Huh, this is a bit weird but hey time to wait for 10.0".

A mystery is fine. When every narrative thread is a mystery, and they're only resolved by more mysteries... why invest in that story at all? When it's going out of its way to subvert its own path for the sake of tripping up your expecations?

Basically yeah, this expansion was an obvious kneejerk reaction to the N'zoth situation and so Danuser basically just went all out on puzzleboxes and making sure to have questions for everything that is happening. Not to speak of the dialogue of cutscenes that still we have no idea what was all about.

[huth]

Eternity's End, The Eternal Cycle.. The End of the Eternal Cycle. Rebirth into a universe without the cycle or ending the cycle. Again, so much of the story has become about Sci-fi concepts and I was very worried we would get into Simulation Theory stuff. Especially with how it seems things are going. The First Ones not coming to stop Zovaal indicates they are either dead or the theory that they became the Pantheon of Order. The Cycle is fueled by Anima from mortal beings from the Great Beyond. But, the Pantheon of Order did not create mortals that was the Old Gods doing and Void corrupting Titan constructions with the Curse of Flesh. However we saw with WoD that Life itself could create life that could feed the cycle too. Life and Void orchestrating what was necessary for the Eternal Cycle to continue to feed Azeroth potentially or to just keep the Simulation going for Light vs Void and Azeroth was the failsafe of the Cycle.

I'd prefer if they just left and the whole machine doesn't actually serve any real purpose anymore. It just keeps running because nobody bothered to turn it off.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

So the whole Arbiter thing made me wonder: Why didn't they just build a new Arbiter? Either when the old one broke or after the whole Zovaal thing is taken care of? They did it before. What's stopping them now?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

So the whole Arbiter thing made me wonder: Why didn't they just build a new Arbiter? Either when the old one broke or after the whole Zovaal thing is taken care of? They did it before. What's stopping them now?

Well, do we need an Arbiter? The Shadowlands seems to've been artificially created after Zovaal got betrayed by his brethren after he got struck by the Dark (? Who?) and his kingdom fell to ruin (The Maw). Again we have no idea what the state of the Warcraft Universe will be like until after the Jailor Cinematic. Obviously the whole Pelagos thing is confusing and indicates that Shadowlands will still exist (which is extremely odd due to the fact that the Shadowlands literally is just a afterlife for which your anima is being ripened for picking later on to feed the Eternal Cycle). Said Dark Force could be.. The Outside Force of the Universe whatever that is and no its' not Void.

Again, I just feel like people are to quick to think that Zovaal is the bad guy here. If anything, Zovaal seems to be the good guy as weird as it sounds. The entire Warcraft Universe has been structured in a way that is abhorrent to sentient beings.

Assumedly the Arbiter was originally created by the First Ones and after Zovaal took his Sigil back The Arbiter just ceased to exist due to the Original Arbiter returning. Most likely like a Switch. Which is weird because does that mean the First Ones programmed for this to be a possibility and if so is this simulation something that could've happened and this is just one of the rare simulation outcomes outside of the logical Light/Void Domination that ends with Void before reset?

I have so many questions.

Also again where did Zovaal originally send souls? Was there original realms that mimicked the fakes of the Pantheon of Death that were destroyed and rebuilt for the Pantheon of Death? Or was there other realms entirely?


I will also be very careful to state that we are still not fullblown Simulation Theory yet. But, it is definitely creeping closer. I don't really know anymore. Certainly I feel the narrative is getting too complex for any layman to understand it even on a surface level.

[Nyel]

I know this is crazy but what if the Dev Preview gave us a false perception of what Zereth Mortis is. There's just a lot of stuff in the Sepulcher that makes me think that it is not just for Afterlives and the fact that there's this weird sense of experimentation as if it was the Sandbox Mode for the First Ones (aka The Founders) before they created the Warcraft Universe.

For me it's neither the Afterlife. It's more like the "source of creation", completely detached from the Shadowlands. Like its own realm. But that's just how I see it.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean I just don't get the First Ones because if what is in the Sepulcher is true then they aren't even the highest on the totem pole and there's like other levels of creators for the Warcraft Universe.

The Shapers (Pantheon of Order)
The Founders (The First Ones)
? The Architect(s) (?)
? Actual Creator?
? SIMULATION IN A LAB

[Sondrelk]

For me it's neither the Afterlife. It's more like the "source of creation", completely detached from the Shadowlands. Like its own realm. But that's just how I see it.

I thought of it more as us going backstage the haunted house so to speak. We enter a place that is both familiar, and very much not. Bright and functional like what we expect from our usual lives, but so different from the effect it creates as to seem alien when we enter.