Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Santandame]

Something along the lines of the quoted part I can see happening as we're literally rummaging around in the canonical developer playground in 9.2. In terms of the "next big bad" I think we've pretty much peaked as well. Sure, there's bigger, but known/expected/recyclable baddies out there but they can't keep this up forever. 10.0 would be the perfect time to shake the formula up like that.

I'm a simple man. Could you explain horizontal content to me instead of vertical as you're one of the more switched on guys in here.

[Marlamin]

Sure, but you can go parallel lore while still being vertical on the gameplay side.

Yeah, that's fair. They wouldn't have to make it "a bigger threat" anymore though, just a threat.

I'm a simple man. Could you explain horizontal content to me instead of vertical as you're one of the more switched on guys in here.

In my interpretation, instead of going to fight whatever is the bigger threat right now, it'd open up the floor for more side stories, going back/continuing the story lines of older content or going to new places where we'd just help the local populace against a local threat vs. the heroes, or these last few expansions, entire planets/realities being in constant danger. They could still do the last part for sure, but it doesn't need to last entire expansions anymore. This would also fit with partially refreshing older assets and expanding/refining chromie time (which got separate chat channels per expansion in 9.2) so old content remains available untouched.

There's a good chance this is all coming from my imagination of being able to retire my characters or letting them do more meaningless stuff, because it's been quite a ride for them.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Something along the lines of the quoted part I can see happening as we're literally rummaging around in the canonical developer playground in 9.2. In terms of the "next big bad" I think we've pretty much peaked as well. Sure, there's bigger, but known/expected/recyclable baddies out there but they can't keep this up forever. 10.0 would be the perfect time to shake the formula up like that.

It really just depends on how creatively bankrupt the devs/writers are. We've pretty much entered post-golden age comic book territory, so everything goes now and each new influence will try to carve their own immortal niche into the tapestry of wow's lore. You can always just put another layer of firster ones, precursors, universe-beforers etc on top of it. You can also always go for "a universe in a universe in a universe" if all else fails, but frankly, with another 5 cosmic forces left to explore (arguably fel has alot of origins to explore, as Sargeras doesn't really belong to it) I don't see it happening too soon. While I think they could keep it up forever, they obviously wouldn't do themselves any favor if they blew their load too quickly, so you are definitely right in that they need to shake things up a bit in 10.0, the current escalating trend is not resonnating with large parts of their audience as well.

[Marlamin]

It really just depends on how creatively bankrupt the devs/writers are. We've pretty much entered post-golden age comic book territory, so everything goes now and each new influence will try to carve their own immortal niche into the tapestry of wow's lore. You can always just put another layer of firster ones, precursors, universe-beforers etc on top of it. You can also always go for "a universe in a universe in a universe" if all else fails, but frankly, with another 5 cosmic forces left to explore (arguably fel has alot of origins to explore, as Sargeras doesn't really belong to it) I don't see it happening too soon. While I think they could keep it up forever, they obviously wouldn't do themselves any favor if they blew their load too quickly, so you are definitely right in that they need to shake things up a bit in 10.0, the current escalating trend is not resonnating with large parts of their audience as well.

Oh yeah, they could definitely keep it up forever, I meant it more in the sense that it wouldn't actually remain good, believable or even enjoyable to play. That's my opinion, at least.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Oh yeah, they could definitely keep it up forever, I meant it more in the sense that it wouldn't actually remain good, believable or even enjoyable to play. That's my opinion, at least.

Oh it definitely won't. Arguably having über-Titans now that repeat so many beats of the ones we knew already, does come with massive diminishing returns. I personally would have tried to build up some mystical layer, instead of pulling back the curtain and reveal even more of the backstage.

[Santandame]

Yeah, that's fair. They wouldn't have to make it "a bigger threat" anymore though, just a threat.



In my interpretation, instead of going to fight whatever is the bigger threat right now, it'd open up the floor for more side stories, going back/continuing the story lines of older content or going to new places where we'd just help the local populace against a local threat vs. the heroes, or these last few expansions, entire planets/realities being in constant danger. They could still do the last part for sure, but it doesn't need to last entire expansions anymore. This would also fit with partially refreshing older assets and expanding/refining chromie time (which got separate chat channels per expansion in 9.2) so old content remains available untouched.

There's a good chance this is all coming from my imagination of being able to retire my characters or letting them do more meaningless stuff, because it's been quite a ride for them.

I get you.

I think a good example then of a parallel threat would be to have a host of different enemies over the course of the expansion but have the main theme being returning to a revamped Azeroth.

Have local threats to each zone with some of those having an overarching story going through several zones with some even leading towards the raid content.

I think a good spread of enemies for the raid content who would be present in the levelling zones could be:

Murozond and the Infinites are threatening to undo everything we have ever done which could lead to a return of villains like Zovaal, Lei Shen, the Legion etc. Zones the Infinites could be prominent in with both Dragonkin and sleeper agents could be Darkshore, Tanaris, Felwood, Silverpine, Hillsbrad etc.

Remnants of the Void are seeping out of the Sunwell and into the surrounding areas. Cultists have began infiltrating Quel'Thalas so as a result they're present in Eversong, Ghostlands, Eastern Plaguelands and The Hinterlands. Have the Ethereal show up and could possibly factor Azshara and the Naga into this.

Yrel and her Lightbound have arrived in Stormwind and have began negotiating with Turalyon. Pockets of light based enemies have began sprouting up in zones like Duskwood, Redridge, Western Plaguelands and Gilneas. Yrel claims these to be terrorists with no affiliation towards her but we know she's not being completely honest.

Then we could have the Dragon Isles as final patch content with an end boss of Chromatus and the goal of restoring power to the Aspects and dragonflights.

Smaller more localised threats could consist of Botani over growing the Northern Barrens and engaged in a constant battle with the Breakers in Southern Barrens who have terraformed the zone to be more mountainous, craggy and volcanic.

Demons commanded by a new Legion commander begin to create footholds in Ashenvale, Winterspring and Azshara.

You get my drift.

Also I don't think we should run through potential enemies like Yrel through one expansion as she should abd probably will have her very own expansion with the Light and Naaru in the future, this would be more about establishing the Light as villains while we dealt with this "terrorist" group she claims to have no affiliation with.

Same with Azshara, would be just about seeding her story for future expansions. Instead of having her involved with the Void stuff, have her down in say Silithus, Feralas, Un'Goro where she has forces investigating Azerite and the Arcane in an effort to channel Azeroth's power herself and have Xal'atath involved with the Void story in Quel'thalas.

[Lahis]

Why are y'all assuming they finish Shadowlands with 9.2 just to still delay 10.0 until late Q1/23 or Q2/23? Heck, even I am cautiously optimistic that 10.0 will launch in Q4/22. Shadowlands was so sparse on overall content, 10.0 really would need to be massive and bigger in scope than Cataclysm and bigger in systems / innovations than Legion if they need so much time to develop it. I don't expect that. It's either, not both.

There is always a year gap between the last patch and next expansion. They can't just fart out an expansion from nothing, they need to actually make it.

And Blizz are really slow at making stuff, even without all the current bullshit in the company.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean if it's Horizontally structured it will be really hard to guage if there's any value in it.

Spending $30-$40 on a Content Pack every 6 months doesn't seem like good value preposition.

Obviously if horizontally mean establish storylines in a more normal environment with new characters and actual forethought on narrative construction. Sure.

Again, I'd rather prefer they sticked to the Expansion Purchase structure and just ramped up monetization drastically. Removing expansions as a concept is going to make discussing value extremely hard. So I'm definitely wary about it if money issues have appeared, there's plenty of other options for them that doesn't exploit the consumers further in a way where value becomes an even more increasing problem.

Also it's easier to teach consumers to spend $40-$120 every 2 years than $30-40 on a Seasonal Content Update, especially on top of all the other monetization efforts.

[LordKharon]

I guess what 10.0 will be depends largely on when they started working on it. How long do they plan expansions ahead, and i dont mean details but the basics (where will it happen / basic story / who are the enemies&bosses)? Did they start before Shadowlands release, then it will not be a radical change from the current formula and it will release Q4/22. New systems will probably be toned down and less grindy (like a continuation from 9.1.5) but the rest will not be much different. Or did they only start in 2021 with covid and Shadowlands problems already very real? Then we could see a delay to 2023 and a very different expansion format...

[Maell]

Sylvanas will be redeemed and spend the rest of her days in a little cottage in Quel'Thalas with Steve, her newfound love as it was always ment to be.

[micwini]

I guess what 10.0 will be depends largely on when they started working on it. How long do they plan expansions ahead, and i dont mean details but the basics (where will it happen / basic story / who are the enemies&bosses)? Did they start before Shadowlands release, then it will not be a radical change from the current formula and it will release Q4/22. New systems will probably be toned down and less grindy (like a continuation from 9.1.5) but the rest will not be much different. Or did they only start in 2021 with covid and Shadowlands problems already very real? Then we could see a delay to 2023 and a very different expansion format...

If 10.0 is the revamp a lot of people want, then they should have been working on it since at least Legion. No way they do that big of a project with the same amount of time as a regular expac.

[Lahis]

If 10.0 is the revamp a lot of people want, then they should have been working on it since at least Legion. No way they do that big of a project with the same amount of time as a regular expac.

Which is why nobody should expect a revamp. It is too much work to ever happen.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Which is why nobody should expect a revamp. It is too much work to ever happen.

Exactly. Especially right now when so many have left and hiring based on prestige has become harder than every in the last 20 years.

[Nyel]

There is always a year gap between the last patch and next expansion. They can't just fart out an expansion from nothing, they need to actually make it.

And Blizz are really slow at making stuff, even without all the current bullshit in the company.

They're slow, but they've been incredibly slow during Shadowlands as well, which makes me believe they instantly started shuffling their workpower towards the next expansion and deliberately let Shadowlands be so... underwhelming. And that's a reason why it ends on 9.2. They spent all their time on the new expansion. And that has to happen in 2022 and they knew about this in 2020 already. That's why I don't want to believe (yet) that it's only coming mid 2023.

I know that the average time between final raid and new expansion is usually ~ 10-11 months and I might be too optimistic here, but 10.0 in March or April 2023 is just waaaaaaaaaaaay too late, even if it's a damn epic expansion.

[Dracullus]

I know that the average time between final raid and new expansion is usually ~ 10-11 months and I might be too optimistic here, but 10.0 in March or April 2023 is just waaaaaaaaaaaay too late, even if it's a damn epic expansion.

Patch can be late. Never expansion. It's simply reset for this game, both population and reputation.

SL would have been far better if they delay it 5 months and be ready to implement Legion cycle for patches. From design perspective it stomps over Legion, but drought make people sick of every single patch.

[Sondrelk]

Which is why nobody should expect a revamp. It is too much work to ever happen.

It really isn't that much work all things considered. The assets have been made slowly ever since MoP, really. And BfA proved that it doesn't take a while lot of work to make a zone feel fresh.

The big thing that would take the most time is quests and new zones on top of revamps. Both of which was a mistake Cata did.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

A lot of mixed messages lately. Biggest expansion ever which has been worked on since BFA 9.0 versus Maintenance Mode $40 DLC packs for each Season no more Expansions.

[Graden]

Exactly. Especially right now when so many have left and hiring based on prestige has become harder than every in the last 20 years.

You make a fair point. Hopefully you're wrong though, cause a world revamp is the only thing that would bring me back.

[infinitemeridian]

Revamp is unlikely since they would never redo every single zone for max level content in one expansion. And given that they just redid the leveling experience, they're not going to repurpose them for leveling (ala Cata) either. Thus, we can either expect the "new" zones for the expac to be a couple zones redone from Kalimdor / EK OR a new landmass aka Dragon Isles.

While it would be cool if every zone had its art updated to modern standards, I don't understand what else a world revamp would entail. Having max level content across every zone is unfeasible and would probably just amount to shallow world quests at best.

[Lady Atia]

Revamp is unlikely since they would never redo every single zone for max level content in one expansion. And given that they just redid the leveling experience, they're not going to repurpose them for leveling (ala Cata) either. Thus, we can either expect the "new" zones for the expac to be a couple zones redone from Kalimdor / EK OR a new landmass aka Dragon Isles.

While it would be cool if every zone had its art updated to modern standards, I don't understand what else a world revamp would entail. Having max level content across every zone is unfeasible and would probably just amount to shallow world quests at best.

Why? I don't think that using the Korthia formula on old world zones would be too much of a hassle tbh. And it would lead to lots of evergreen content especially if they give us lots of mounts and pets to farm there. And you could re-use them for leveling too, basically like threads of fate.