Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rci16171]

internal alpha under way
heavy focus on exploration and socialization
nearly the entire game world is open for you to explore and scales to your level
the only exceptions are a few end game zones dedicated entirely to group and high level play
after the backlash from cataclysm the team has made sure the old world content is still accessible
alliance and horde hard factions have been removed in the new world
your old faction still applies when visiting old expansions with grouped players using the group leaders faction while accompanying them
guild based pvp is the replacement for open world faction based conflict with different guilds able to declare war on one another
all new battlegrounds while old battlegrounds become rotating bonus events
i dont want to surrender too many story beats but the jailor is ultimately successful and while he is defeated at the end of the raid he was still able to remake large parts of reality thus eternitys end
sylvanas is intended to be the jailors cosmic replacement a choice she makes of her own free will
so far this is planned to be the last vertical expansion with future expansions being horizontal adding parallel content

[Makabreska]

Too early for fake leaks guys, 9.2 PTR hasn't even started!

[Sondrelk]

Too early for fake leaks guys, 9.2 PTR hasn't even started!

I disagree. Leaks are appropriate once we know for certain what the last patch will be.
We know that the Jailer attacks the world soul, and we have hints that the next expansion takes place on Azeroth.
There could be curve balls, but where we are and what we know seems about right for a fertile leaks season.

[ExiHext]

Too early for fake leaks guys, 9.2 PTR hasn't even started!

At least they should try to put some effort into their leaks...but I guess that is asking too much for.

I may be totally wrong but for me every leak that contains something like "jailer succeeds in altering reality" is instant fake. Much too bold attempt for blizz.

[Dracullus]

Reveal should be month after launch. 9.2 release -> heroic week -> mythic week (and Jailer) -> world first and event annoucement -> reveal week. That would be optimal, which isn't a given of course.

Wouldn't have high hopes for 2022 too, 9.2 has 18th anniversary achiev and it will be possible only if they manage to go straight from big patch release to Alpha, which never happened before. Of course I consider it a good thing, we definetely can't have expansion rushed for Christmas in current situation.

[Santandame]

Uhm, no. I don't think you quite got what I meant. I was talking about all of this regarding the Sepulcher and whatnot since before 9.1's release, hell I'm pretty sure I said most of this the week before the patch came out. You also kinda missed out on the idea that, before we got an idea of 9.2 as a whole, let alone what Zereth Mortis actually looks like (We knew it was Realm of the First Ones, etc), I was simply assuming we were going to continue the Covenant plotlines, without actually going through with the Covenants as a whole (I.E, Kyrian plotline continues, but the COVENANT is perfectly fine. Namely focuses on Uther, etc). With Revendreth, I talked Nathreza simply because of the idea that prior to the Sepulcher, etc, that was where the Dreadlords namely focused their shit. It was "destroyed", sure, But its ruins still remained. They would fight alongside the Jailer, but the Denathrius stuff could've been prior. We don't know what will happen of course, but it'd be cool. We also don't know what's going on with the Elune and WQ plotline. The Realms of Life were name dropped, so I assumed it would be a part of 9.2 in some form. If this isn't the case, I'll be fine with it, but the Night Elves need closure at the very least, same with the cycle between Life of Death, as 10.0's most likely not going to be Cosmic.

And yes, I did. Would've been a neat lil reference to Endwalker, and since people were being weird with the Sepulcher's Location, I was like "Why not", ya know? Reminder, I am pretty sure I said this prior to Zereth Mortis being name dropped also, but if not, that's ok, I am able to admit when I'm wrong lol. And yeah, everyone and their mother thought that Zereth Mortis would be 9.2. Not my point. My point is that many people downplayed the Patch so fucking hard, claiming that Zereth Mortis was within Azeroth or some shit, which was dumb. Others thought it was Northrend, or within it, and SOME went as far as to make leaks claiming that it was Azjol-Nerub. Reminder, people thought this because of how fucking small Korthia was, and how COVID fucked Blizzard up...even tho it didn't, story wise, or so they claim.

And me admitting I was right was towards the idiots that thought Zereth Mortis was located within Azeroth...which it isn't. The only thing that's debatable really is where tf the "Heart of Eternity" area of the Raid is. Oh, and in regards to your last sentence, not only is that such a weird thing to say, but you're dangerously giving me vibes of someone I used to debate with on here. Not saying you're related to em, but that last thing just feels so odd, since you made your profile ages after that occurred. So, idk how you were able to know that...unless...

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I know scrolling through my posts exists, but the way it felt real fucking personal also just feels odd, tbh. Only 1 person ever really took issue with that, especially whenever I talked about how I thought the First Ones were above the Titans cause of how 20 different Interviews and statements stating that explicitly from Blizzard and WoW overshadowed another persons 1 interview from much prior stating otherwise.

Which, btw, I was also correct about.

It's almost as if people lurk on this forum before joining.

What a concept.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I would adjust the revel to about 2 months after 9.2, as hat is usually the time it takes to timegate the story.

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So with the whole proto-type Covenant leaders thing, doesn't that also imply that the Jailer himself is some kind of robot?

They aren't really robots from what we've seen, but they are certainly made for a task. We don't know the exact context yet. Maybe robots that run zereth mortis only know how to make flimsy prototypes, but the first ones could make them proper, essentially the difference between making a clunky mechanical facsimile and bio-engineering a living organism via gene manipulation. Maybe the prototypes need some finishing touches by who ever ordered the prototypes to be printed were not done (I'm guessing Zoofie or one of his underlings found or ordered them being made). Looking at them, the council is clearly not properly done, as they still have glowy bits floating around and all that.

I mean all humans, dwarves and gnomes and their sub-species are originally robots as well in warcraft lore and were only made flesh by an old god/void lord curse. So the line has always been blurry. For all we know the curse of flesh may be connected to the first ones and the void forces just found/decoded/know about it.

[Marlamin]

so far this is planned to be the last vertical expansion with future expansions being horizontal adding parallel content

Something along the lines of the quoted part I can see happening as we're literally rummaging around in the canonical developer playground in 9.2. In terms of the "next big bad" I think we've pretty much peaked as well. Sure, there's bigger, but known/expected/recyclable baddies out there but they can't keep this up forever. 10.0 would be the perfect time to shake the formula up like that.

[TheFirstOnes]

It's almost as if people lurk on this forum before joining.

What a concept.

That doesn’t help your case. Makes the debate more annoying really.

[Nyel]

Why are y'all assuming they finish Shadowlands with 9.2 just to still delay 10.0 until late Q1/23 or Q2/23? Heck, even I am cautiously optimistic that 10.0 will launch in Q4/22. Shadowlands was so sparse on overall content, 10.0 really would need to be massive and bigger in scope than Cataclysm and bigger in systems / innovations than Legion if they need so much time to develop it. I don't expect that. It's either, not both.

[huth]

Something along the lines of the quoted part I can see happening as we're literally rummaging around in the canonical developer playground in 9.2. In terms of the "next big bad" I think we've pretty much peaked as well. Sure, there's bigger, but known/expected/recyclable baddies out there but they can't keep this up forever. 10.0 would be the perfect time to shake the formula up like that.

Sure, but you can go parallel lore while still being vertical on the gameplay side.

[Santandame]

Something along the lines of the quoted part I can see happening as we're literally rummaging around in the canonical developer playground in 9.2. In terms of the "next big bad" I think we've pretty much peaked as well. Sure, there's bigger, but known/expected/recyclable baddies out there but they can't keep this up forever. 10.0 would be the perfect time to shake the formula up like that.

I'm a simple man. Could you explain horizontal content to me instead of vertical as you're one of the more switched on guys in here.

[Marlamin]

Sure, but you can go parallel lore while still being vertical on the gameplay side.

Yeah, that's fair. They wouldn't have to make it "a bigger threat" anymore though, just a threat.

I'm a simple man. Could you explain horizontal content to me instead of vertical as you're one of the more switched on guys in here.

In my interpretation, instead of going to fight whatever is the bigger threat right now, it'd open up the floor for more side stories, going back/continuing the story lines of older content or going to new places where we'd just help the local populace against a local threat vs. the heroes, or these last few expansions, entire planets/realities being in constant danger. They could still do the last part for sure, but it doesn't need to last entire expansions anymore. This would also fit with partially refreshing older assets and expanding/refining chromie time (which got separate chat channels per expansion in 9.2) so old content remains available untouched.

There's a good chance this is all coming from my imagination of being able to retire my characters or letting them do more meaningless stuff, because it's been quite a ride for them.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Something along the lines of the quoted part I can see happening as we're literally rummaging around in the canonical developer playground in 9.2. In terms of the "next big bad" I think we've pretty much peaked as well. Sure, there's bigger, but known/expected/recyclable baddies out there but they can't keep this up forever. 10.0 would be the perfect time to shake the formula up like that.

It really just depends on how creatively bankrupt the devs/writers are. We've pretty much entered post-golden age comic book territory, so everything goes now and each new influence will try to carve their own immortal niche into the tapestry of wow's lore. You can always just put another layer of firster ones, precursors, universe-beforers etc on top of it. You can also always go for "a universe in a universe in a universe" if all else fails, but frankly, with another 5 cosmic forces left to explore (arguably fel has alot of origins to explore, as Sargeras doesn't really belong to it) I don't see it happening too soon. While I think they could keep it up forever, they obviously wouldn't do themselves any favor if they blew their load too quickly, so you are definitely right in that they need to shake things up a bit in 10.0, the current escalating trend is not resonnating with large parts of their audience as well.

[Marlamin]

It really just depends on how creatively bankrupt the devs/writers are. We've pretty much entered post-golden age comic book territory, so everything goes now and each new influence will try to carve their own immortal niche into the tapestry of wow's lore. You can always just put another layer of firster ones, precursors, universe-beforers etc on top of it. You can also always go for "a universe in a universe in a universe" if all else fails, but frankly, with another 5 cosmic forces left to explore (arguably fel has alot of origins to explore, as Sargeras doesn't really belong to it) I don't see it happening too soon. While I think they could keep it up forever, they obviously wouldn't do themselves any favor if they blew their load too quickly, so you are definitely right in that they need to shake things up a bit in 10.0, the current escalating trend is not resonnating with large parts of their audience as well.

Oh yeah, they could definitely keep it up forever, I meant it more in the sense that it wouldn't actually remain good, believable or even enjoyable to play. That's my opinion, at least.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Oh yeah, they could definitely keep it up forever, I meant it more in the sense that it wouldn't actually remain good, believable or even enjoyable to play. That's my opinion, at least.

Oh it definitely won't. Arguably having über-Titans now that repeat so many beats of the ones we knew already, does come with massive diminishing returns. I personally would have tried to build up some mystical layer, instead of pulling back the curtain and reveal even more of the backstage.

[Santandame]

Yeah, that's fair. They wouldn't have to make it "a bigger threat" anymore though, just a threat.



In my interpretation, instead of going to fight whatever is the bigger threat right now, it'd open up the floor for more side stories, going back/continuing the story lines of older content or going to new places where we'd just help the local populace against a local threat vs. the heroes, or these last few expansions, entire planets/realities being in constant danger. They could still do the last part for sure, but it doesn't need to last entire expansions anymore. This would also fit with partially refreshing older assets and expanding/refining chromie time (which got separate chat channels per expansion in 9.2) so old content remains available untouched.

There's a good chance this is all coming from my imagination of being able to retire my characters or letting them do more meaningless stuff, because it's been quite a ride for them.

I get you.

I think a good example then of a parallel threat would be to have a host of different enemies over the course of the expansion but have the main theme being returning to a revamped Azeroth.

Have local threats to each zone with some of those having an overarching story going through several zones with some even leading towards the raid content.

I think a good spread of enemies for the raid content who would be present in the levelling zones could be:

Murozond and the Infinites are threatening to undo everything we have ever done which could lead to a return of villains like Zovaal, Lei Shen, the Legion etc. Zones the Infinites could be prominent in with both Dragonkin and sleeper agents could be Darkshore, Tanaris, Felwood, Silverpine, Hillsbrad etc.

Remnants of the Void are seeping out of the Sunwell and into the surrounding areas. Cultists have began infiltrating Quel'Thalas so as a result they're present in Eversong, Ghostlands, Eastern Plaguelands and The Hinterlands. Have the Ethereal show up and could possibly factor Azshara and the Naga into this.

Yrel and her Lightbound have arrived in Stormwind and have began negotiating with Turalyon. Pockets of light based enemies have began sprouting up in zones like Duskwood, Redridge, Western Plaguelands and Gilneas. Yrel claims these to be terrorists with no affiliation towards her but we know she's not being completely honest.

Then we could have the Dragon Isles as final patch content with an end boss of Chromatus and the goal of restoring power to the Aspects and dragonflights.

Smaller more localised threats could consist of Botani over growing the Northern Barrens and engaged in a constant battle with the Breakers in Southern Barrens who have terraformed the zone to be more mountainous, craggy and volcanic.

Demons commanded by a new Legion commander begin to create footholds in Ashenvale, Winterspring and Azshara.

You get my drift.

Also I don't think we should run through potential enemies like Yrel through one expansion as she should abd probably will have her very own expansion with the Light and Naaru in the future, this would be more about establishing the Light as villains while we dealt with this "terrorist" group she claims to have no affiliation with.

Same with Azshara, would be just about seeding her story for future expansions. Instead of having her involved with the Void stuff, have her down in say Silithus, Feralas, Un'Goro where she has forces investigating Azerite and the Arcane in an effort to channel Azeroth's power herself and have Xal'atath involved with the Void story in Quel'thalas.

[Lahis]

Why are y'all assuming they finish Shadowlands with 9.2 just to still delay 10.0 until late Q1/23 or Q2/23? Heck, even I am cautiously optimistic that 10.0 will launch in Q4/22. Shadowlands was so sparse on overall content, 10.0 really would need to be massive and bigger in scope than Cataclysm and bigger in systems / innovations than Legion if they need so much time to develop it. I don't expect that. It's either, not both.

There is always a year gap between the last patch and next expansion. They can't just fart out an expansion from nothing, they need to actually make it.

And Blizz are really slow at making stuff, even without all the current bullshit in the company.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean if it's Horizontally structured it will be really hard to guage if there's any value in it.

Spending $30-$40 on a Content Pack every 6 months doesn't seem like good value preposition.

Obviously if horizontally mean establish storylines in a more normal environment with new characters and actual forethought on narrative construction. Sure.

Again, I'd rather prefer they sticked to the Expansion Purchase structure and just ramped up monetization drastically. Removing expansions as a concept is going to make discussing value extremely hard. So I'm definitely wary about it if money issues have appeared, there's plenty of other options for them that doesn't exploit the consumers further in a way where value becomes an even more increasing problem.

Also it's easier to teach consumers to spend $40-$120 every 2 years than $30-40 on a Seasonal Content Update, especially on top of all the other monetization efforts.

[LordKharon]

I guess what 10.0 will be depends largely on when they started working on it. How long do they plan expansions ahead, and i dont mean details but the basics (where will it happen / basic story / who are the enemies&bosses)? Did they start before Shadowlands release, then it will not be a radical change from the current formula and it will release Q4/22. New systems will probably be toned down and less grindy (like a continuation from 9.1.5) but the rest will not be much different. Or did they only start in 2021 with covid and Shadowlands problems already very real? Then we could see a delay to 2023 and a very different expansion format...