Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[micwini]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

The Shadowlands have been inaccessible only to normal mortals, not to extraordinary mortals like the Ren'dorei.

Ok, how do you know the Ren'dorei can do it? Maybe higher up beings of the Void opened the portals there, like the Void Lords?
Is it because they can make a portal to a voidy place? Because it very well could be opening a portal to a place that has the same energy you're infused with is much easier to do.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far

I'm focused on the comment thread with the OP saying the Star Wars prequel trilogy was on par with Lord of the Rings.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far

Wowreddit is competing with 4chan with that much fail and rage.

[AngerFork]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far

Is that the one talking about making her into a seed pod to regrow a new World Tree? It's an interesting idea & would definitely be a nice way to wrap up this whole Teldrassil thing. Plus it would play well off of the "Vengeance or Renewal" topic from 9.1.

I'm curious what that tree might look like. Would it have the circular designs we see in Ardenweald or would it be closer to an Azeroth tree, given that it likely wouldn't be feeding of the same sort of anima? Possibly a mixture, could be a good excuse for the art team to do something amazing for the Night Elves.

[Varodoc]

So then the Ren’dorei wouldn’t be the only race to portal to the shadowlands if the Legion and the light did as well.

I mean mortal race. Demons are not mortals, and it was a Naaru that launched the invasion of Shadowlands.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I mean mortal race. Demons are not mortals, and it was a Naaru that launched the invasion of Shadowlands.

Ok, and my other reply?

[Varodoc]

Ok, how do you know the Ren'dorei can do it? Maybe higher up beings of the Void opened the portals there, like the Void Lords?
Is it because they can make a portal to a voidy place? Because it very well could be opening a portal to a place that has the same energy you're infused with is much easier to do.

All of this is pretty much headcanon.

What is not headcanon is that 1) The Ren'dorei have the ability to open Dimensional rifts and 2) Void creatures already found a way into the Shadowlands once.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

All of this is pretty much headcanon.

What is not headcanon is that 1) The Ren'dorei have the ability to open Dimensional rifts and 2) Void creatures already found a way into the Shadowlands once.

Ok, how do those prove they can definitively go to the Shadowlands? How do you know it was 'mortal' void creatures that opened the door to Shadowlands? How do you know it wasn't higher up void beings? How do you know that because they can open a dimensional rift to a place of void, an energy that they are infused with and have close connection to, automatically means they can open portals to other dimensions they don't have connections to? Show me proof otherwise you're jumping to conclusions and making up your own headcanon.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Is that the one talking about making her into a seed pod to regrow a new World Tree? It's an interesting idea & would definitely be a nice way to wrap up this whole Teldrassil thing. Plus it would play well off of the "Vengeance or Renewal" topic from 9.1.

I'm curious what that tree might look like. Would it have the circular designs we see in Ardenweald or would it be closer to an Azeroth tree, given that it likely wouldn't be feeding of the same sort of anima? Possibly a mixture, could be a good excuse for the art team to do something amazing for the Night Elves.

Nah, its better to leasve Sylvanas out of anything related to giving NElves a new home. Kinda bad taste in the mouth. The idea is certainly interesting I'll give it that.

[Varodoc]

Ok, how do those prove they can definitively go to the Shadowlands? How do you know it was 'mortal' void creatures that opened the door to Shadowlands? How do you know it wasn't higher up void beings? How do you know that because they can open a dimensional rift to a place of void, an energy that they are infused with and have close connection to, automatically means they can open portals to other dimensions they don't have connections to? Show me proof otherwise you're jumping to conclusions and making up your own headcanon.

I never said it was "mortal Void creatures", don't put words in my mouth. I said it was lesser Void creatures like Voidwalkers.

What I said is that the Ren'dorei are indeed extraordinary mortals and the only ones who can open Dimensional rifts. And it is already shown that Void-infused creatures can enter the Shadowlands.

You tried (and failed) to prove that it was a Void Lord who allowed that invasion to happen, but there is no proof of this.

Show me proof otherwise you're jumping to conclusions and making up your own headcanon.

It is you who should give me proof that it was a Void Lord (lol) or some higher Void creature that opened those portals. All you're doing is giving me your headcanon.

Even before Shadowlands, 3 mere trolls could already "delve into the Shadowlands". Talanji, Rokhan, and Master Gadrin conducted a ritual to delve into the Shadowlands and locate Vol'jin's missing spirit.

If a Shadow Hunter, an old troll, and a young princess can delve into the Shadowlands via a ritual (and the quest took place BEFORE Talanji became Queen and Bwonsamdi's champion), the idea that the Ren'dorei (masters of dimensional teleportation magic) can't replicate such a feat shows clear bias against them.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I never said it was "mortal Void creatures", don't put words in my mouth. I said it was lesser Void creatures like Voidwalkers.

What I said is that the Ren'dorei are indeed extraordinary mortals and the only ones who can open Dimensional rifts. And it is already shown that Void-infused creatures can enter the Shadowlands.

You tried (and failed) to prove that it was a Void Lord who allowed that invasion to happen, but there is no proof of this.



It is you who should me proof that it was a Void Lord (lol) or some higher Void creature that opened those portals. All you're doing is giving me your headcanon.

You dismissed my arguments of the Legion and the light because they weren't mortal. So if non-mortals can't count, then those who portaled over from the void must then be "mortal"

I mean mortal race. Demons are not mortals, and it was a Naaru that launched the invasion of Shadowlands.

It's not about proving it was void lords, I want you to prove it was a lesser being that did it. If the light and legion did it because they weren't mortal, then show me proof that a mortal being did it before.

[Grimbold21]

Yep, the community desperately needs new info...

[Varodoc]

You dismissed my arguments of the Legion and the light because they weren't mortal. So if non-mortals can't count, then those who portaled over from the void must then be "mortal"


It's not about proving it was void lords, I want you to prove it was a lesser being that did it. If the light and legion did it because they weren't mortal, then show me proof that a mortal being did it before.

That there are hardly any mortals who did it before is the point, the Ren'dorei are truly exceptional and extraordinary.

Regardless read my edit to the last post, therein lies the answer you are looking for

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Even before Shadowlands, 3 mere trolls could already "delve into the Shadowlands". Talanji, Rokhan, and Master Gadrin conducted a ritual to delve into the Shadowlands and locate Vol'jin's missing spirit.

If a Shadow Hunter, an old troll, and a young princess can delve into the Shadowlands via a ritual (and the quest took place BEFORE Talanji became Queen and Bwonsamdi's champion), the idea that the Ren'dorei (masters of dimensional teleportation magic) can't replicate such a feat shows clear bias against them.

Oh so then the Ren'dorei AREN'T THE ONLY MORTALS WHO CAN DO IT. Which was what this entire argument was about because you claimed so earlier.

So Yes, it is Canonically shown that the Ren'dorei are the only race in Warcraft that didn't need any external help to enter the Shadowlands. Since even the lowest beast of the Void could enter Bastion.

[Varodoc]

Oh so then the Ren'dorei AREN'T THE ONLY MORTALS WHO CAN DO IT. Which was what this entire argument was about because you claimed so earlier.

Very well, I can concede on that.

My points about the great injustice done to the Ren'dorei by biased Blizzard since their introduction would stand anyway.

[Nokster10]

Very well, I can concede on that.

My points about the great injustice done to the Ren'dorei by biased Blizzard since their introduction would stand anyway.

Why would blizzard care about that irrelevant race that was introduced for cosmetic purpose only? People wanted more elves, they made void elves, that's it.

[Makabreska]

Very well, I can concede on that.

My points about the great injustice done to the Ren'dorei by biased Blizzard since their introduction would stand anyway.

Blizz is biased against a race they themselves brought to life and put in spotlight. Said by one of two most biased guys in this thread. Holy fuck. Impartiality intensifies.

[Ersula]

Little did we know that with Ren'doreis' introduction we would have new dogmatic people who would swear up and down about the weirdest of things mimicking the exact same reality of quel'dorei advocates. Fitting, I suppose considering how Blizzard introduced them and how we in the end ended up with them coming halfway by introducing Void High Elves into the mix as some sort of "haha, look. It's High Elves but not really! We won.".

Ah, I love decade old squabbling over a fictional race of elves that will never end because the developers are psychotic.

"Here, the High Elves had a major development because of their treatment in a time of need by the Alliance. They have changed their name."
Fans: No.
"Uh, okay. Here are the same race of elves who are on opposite sides of the faction war, in Dalaran. But further reminding you they are the same race."
Fans: No.
"Okay, here are the same race, but with a new story development to match the most iconic High Elf in the franchise. And you can play as them."
Fans: No.
"Okay, now both races, Blood Elves & Void Elves, much like in D&D where Sun Elves & Moon elves are both kinds of High Elf, both have the iconic High Elf customization, further reminding you this is the same race"
Fans: No.

You really think it's the developers who are being unreasonable in this situation?

[Varodoc]

Why would blizzard care about that irrelevant race that was introduced for cosmetic purpose only? People wanted more elves, they made void elves, that's it.

False, the Ren'dorei were introduced for three key Story reasons:

1) To serve as foil to the Sin'dorei, and vice versa. Like the Sin'dorei, the Ren'dorei were cast out of the faction they belonged out and were forced to rely on dark powers to endure. Both were also led (at least originally, in both cases) by an ambitious and young Magister. This is reflected in the crests of both races. While the Sin'dorei phoenix rises from the ashes towards the Light of the Sunwell, pointing upward, the Ren'dorei phoenix falls from the Light of the Sunwell, pointing downward.

2) To continue the storyline of Alleria started in Patch 7.3 in the Mac'aree zone. Alleria learned how to use the Void under the ominous Locus-Walker's teachings, and she became the first of what would later become the Ren'dorei. Just as she learned to control the Void, it was a natural continuation that she would become a master herself in using the Void. The student becomes the master. And that is why a "group of her kin" was introduced, to give Alleria the chance to rescue her kin from the Void, and become their teacher. She started as a student of the Void, and became teacher herself. You could say that the cycle was complete.

3) To represent the "darker aspect" of the Alliance. The Ren'dorei are not evil, and they genuinely want to protect Azeroth and Quel'Thalas. But, unlike most in the Alliance, they are very methodical and can be extremely ruthless if the situation demands it. Making them a unique addition to the Alliance. Not too differently from the Worgen, the Ren'dorei are there to show that not all in the Alliance are goody goody two shoes or hippies.

The Ren'dorei were not introduced for cosmetic reasons, there was a clear Story purpose behind them!

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

"Here, the High Elves had a major development because of their treatment in a time of need by the Alliance. They have changed their name."
Fans: No.
"Uh, okay. Here are the same race of elves who are on opposite sides of the faction war, in Dalaran. But further reminding you they are the same race."
Fans: No.
"Okay, here are the same race, but with a new story development to match the most iconic High Elf in the franchise. And you can play as them."
Fans: No.
"Okay, now both races, Blood Elves & Void Elves, much like in D&D where Sun Elves & Moon elves are both kinds of High Elf, both have the iconic High Elf customization, further reminding you this is the same race"
Fans: No.

You really think it's the developers who are being unreasonable in this situation?

I don't see what your argument is. Players wanted playable high elves on the alliance side. That was it. They didn't do that.