1. #14581
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yes, the Light attacked Revendreth. And even that is an understatement, since they literally scorched half of it.

    There are also mentions of a great battle taking place in Maldraxxus and we see the bones of the fallen there, though I can't remember if it was against Light or Void.
    So then the Ren’dorei wouldn’t be the only race to portal to the shadowlands if the Legion and the light did as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  2. #14582
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceCattx View Post
    It's the white knighting of Void Elves while also being a touch homophobic that ices the cake for me
    Idk were the master of the void comes from, but they are far from masters.. just a group of outcasts who dabble in void magic, hardly masters anyway.

    Ofc they get hate.. they literally stole an AR spot for a race that was already playable. When so many cool options were left in the dark. Also the fsnboying on alleria and her folks is so cringe.

  3. #14583
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    A complete non-argument borne out of bias against Alleria/the Ren'dorei. There's also an entire zone in Revendreth that was blasted away by the Light, yet you don't see the Venthyr being distrustful of paladins and priests.
    Paladins & Priests (& all of the Lightforged Draenei) came into the Shadowlands via the Maw & were brought in by the guards of Oribos. By the time we got to Revendreth, we were already known through the Shadowlands as the initial dialog with Lord Chamberlain shows. In your argument, you are pushing to have Alleria come in not through the Maw or the door from Bolvar, but to just Void her way in wherever. You haven't really explained why I'm wrong, you've only presumed that I hate the Ren'dorei. Which for the record, I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Who doesn't have it? Thrall for example. Old Emma too.

    Legit the only history Thrall has with Sylvanas is that she tried to have him killed.

    So... like pretty much any other organism in the Cosmos
    Maybe not as much as some characters, but there's at least some history with Thrall & Sylvanas. Do you not remember the Wrathgate quests where Sylvanas was pleading with Thrall to trust her & help take back the Undercity? Trust by the way that was already shaky when Thrall allowed the Forsaken into the Horde at Cairne's behest. Sylvanas & her armies also had his back during Vol'jin's revolution to dethrone Garrosh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    What does Old Emma or Baine add to the story at all.
    You are really focused on this Old Emma minor side dialogue piece, but her role isn't without merit. She's showing a bit of what the Jailer's mechanisms have caused, the emotional impact of them. It's really easy to see the evil Sylvanas did with Teldrassil & to hear about souls going to the Maw, but seeing a mother completely nervous for her children & others trying to keep the horrific truth from her brings a stronger element of emotion into the case. And her dialog is only one small piece on the side, hardly a cause for alarm.

    As for Baine, he really doesn't add all that much right now, no disagreement there. Neither is Calia or Taelia. But they also are not directly stealing the spotlight to point it right at themselves, as Alleria would be doing in your situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Except that Sylvanas answering for her crimes literally happened lol.
    Has she actually answered for anything just yet? At this point, all we've seen is her answering for nothing while the Jailer opened the way to Zereth Mortis, her deciding that she will "never serve" as she fails to stop him, then her getting her blue eyed soul back just in time to faint. We have no real reason to believe she's going to face any real consequences for her actions aside from being a whole being again & feeling guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Few posts here have made me this disappointed. This is a very disappointing post that shows obvious bias against Alleria and the Ren'dorei. I can clearly see that you hate them and would prefer if they didn't exist; but now that they exist, trying to deny them rightful spotlight isn't the way. Don't come up with unnecessary excuses and non-arguments, because that is a dishonest way to argue.

    It is disappointing, because you make up argument to defend the indefensible. The Ren'dorei wouldn't have "added anything at all"? Well, aside from an actual in-game reunion, Alleria would have certainly done more than stare at a wall for 2 centuries like Mr. Cow did.
    You presume much of my feelings towards Alleria & the Ren'dorei. I don't hate them, I honestly think they are one of the more interesting races in WoW at this point. BfA was a far better story for the trickery that Umbric was pulling on Zandalar. But I also don't really see where they would've added that much to Shadowlands.

    Alleria has already had an in-game reunion with Sylvanas in the Undercity when Sylvanas tried to trap her alongside Anduin & Jaina. They've also had a comic reunion in the 3 sisters comic. But the thing is, that was with an incomplete Sylvanas. It might be more interesting with Sylvanas being a complete being again, but we likely will get that story after 9.2. If we are going back to Azeroth in 10.0 & Sylvanas returns with us (which I currently suspect she will), that's a much better time to tell that story along with Veressa. If we do wind up with a Light/Void expansion in 10.0, it may well be Sylvanas helping Alleria to rediscover who she is & escape the whispers of the Void. I'd far rather see that reunion once we resolve this whole Anduin/Jailer situation rather than trying to force them into a story where many characters already aren't getting the development time they need.

  4. #14584
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

    Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  5. #14585
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The Shadowlands have been inaccessible only to normal mortals, not to extraordinary mortals like the Ren'dorei.
    Ok, how do you know the Ren'dorei can do it? Maybe higher up beings of the Void opened the portals there, like the Void Lords?
    Is it because they can make a portal to a voidy place? Because it very well could be opening a portal to a place that has the same energy you're infused with is much easier to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

    Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far
    I'm focused on the comment thread with the OP saying the Star Wars prequel trilogy was on par with Lord of the Rings.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  6. #14586
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

    Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far
    Wowreddit is competing with 4chan with that much fail and rage.
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  7. #14587
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...in_92_and_not/

    Just rolling through. First comment in that reddit thread is the best idea to salvage Sylvanas I have seen so far
    Is that the one talking about making her into a seed pod to regrow a new World Tree? It's an interesting idea & would definitely be a nice way to wrap up this whole Teldrassil thing. Plus it would play well off of the "Vengeance or Renewal" topic from 9.1.

    I'm curious what that tree might look like. Would it have the circular designs we see in Ardenweald or would it be closer to an Azeroth tree, given that it likely wouldn't be feeding of the same sort of anima? Possibly a mixture, could be a good excuse for the art team to do something amazing for the Night Elves.

  8. #14588
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    So then the Ren’dorei wouldn’t be the only race to portal to the shadowlands if the Legion and the light did as well.
    I mean mortal race. Demons are not mortals, and it was a Naaru that launched the invasion of Shadowlands.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  9. #14589
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I mean mortal race. Demons are not mortals, and it was a Naaru that launched the invasion of Shadowlands.
    Ok, and my other reply?
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  10. #14590
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    Ok, how do you know the Ren'dorei can do it? Maybe higher up beings of the Void opened the portals there, like the Void Lords?
    Is it because they can make a portal to a voidy place? Because it very well could be opening a portal to a place that has the same energy you're infused with is much easier to do.
    All of this is pretty much headcanon.

    What is not headcanon is that 1) The Ren'dorei have the ability to open Dimensional rifts and 2) Void creatures already found a way into the Shadowlands once.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  11. #14591
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    All of this is pretty much headcanon.

    What is not headcanon is that 1) The Ren'dorei have the ability to open Dimensional rifts and 2) Void creatures already found a way into the Shadowlands once.
    Ok, how do those prove they can definitively go to the Shadowlands? How do you know it was 'mortal' void creatures that opened the door to Shadowlands? How do you know it wasn't higher up void beings? How do you know that because they can open a dimensional rift to a place of void, an energy that they are infused with and have close connection to, automatically means they can open portals to other dimensions they don't have connections to? Show me proof otherwise you're jumping to conclusions and making up your own headcanon.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  12. #14592
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Is that the one talking about making her into a seed pod to regrow a new World Tree? It's an interesting idea & would definitely be a nice way to wrap up this whole Teldrassil thing. Plus it would play well off of the "Vengeance or Renewal" topic from 9.1.

    I'm curious what that tree might look like. Would it have the circular designs we see in Ardenweald or would it be closer to an Azeroth tree, given that it likely wouldn't be feeding of the same sort of anima? Possibly a mixture, could be a good excuse for the art team to do something amazing for the Night Elves.
    Nah, its better to leasve Sylvanas out of anything related to giving NElves a new home. Kinda bad taste in the mouth. The idea is certainly interesting I'll give it that.
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  13. #14593
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    Ok, how do those prove they can definitively go to the Shadowlands? How do you know it was 'mortal' void creatures that opened the door to Shadowlands? How do you know it wasn't higher up void beings? How do you know that because they can open a dimensional rift to a place of void, an energy that they are infused with and have close connection to, automatically means they can open portals to other dimensions they don't have connections to? Show me proof otherwise you're jumping to conclusions and making up your own headcanon.
    I never said it was "mortal Void creatures", don't put words in my mouth. I said it was lesser Void creatures like Voidwalkers.

    What I said is that the Ren'dorei are indeed extraordinary mortals and the only ones who can open Dimensional rifts. And it is already shown that Void-infused creatures can enter the Shadowlands.

    You tried (and failed) to prove that it was a Void Lord who allowed that invasion to happen, but there is no proof of this.

    Show me proof otherwise you're jumping to conclusions and making up your own headcanon.
    It is you who should give me proof that it was a Void Lord (lol) or some higher Void creature that opened those portals. All you're doing is giving me your headcanon.

    Even before Shadowlands, 3 mere trolls could already "delve into the Shadowlands". Talanji, Rokhan, and Master Gadrin conducted a ritual to delve into the Shadowlands and locate Vol'jin's missing spirit.

    If a Shadow Hunter, an old troll, and a young princess can delve into the Shadowlands via a ritual (and the quest took place BEFORE Talanji became Queen and Bwonsamdi's champion), the idea that the Ren'dorei (masters of dimensional teleportation magic) can't replicate such a feat shows clear bias against them.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-11-25 at 03:55 PM.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  14. #14594
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I never said it was "mortal Void creatures", don't put words in my mouth. I said it was lesser Void creatures like Voidwalkers.

    What I said is that the Ren'dorei are indeed extraordinary mortals and the only ones who can open Dimensional rifts. And it is already shown that Void-infused creatures can enter the Shadowlands.

    You tried (and failed) to prove that it was a Void Lord who allowed that invasion to happen, but there is no proof of this.



    It is you who should me proof that it was a Void Lord (lol) or some higher Void creature that opened those portals. All you're doing is giving me your headcanon.
    You dismissed my arguments of the Legion and the light because they weren't mortal. So if non-mortals can't count, then those who portaled over from the void must then be "mortal"
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I mean mortal race. Demons are not mortals, and it was a Naaru that launched the invasion of Shadowlands.
    It's not about proving it was void lords, I want you to prove it was a lesser being that did it. If the light and legion did it because they weren't mortal, then show me proof that a mortal being did it before.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  15. #14595
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    Yep, the community desperately needs new info...

  16. #14596
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    You dismissed my arguments of the Legion and the light because they weren't mortal. So if non-mortals can't count, then those who portaled over from the void must then be "mortal"


    It's not about proving it was void lords, I want you to prove it was a lesser being that did it. If the light and legion did it because they weren't mortal, then show me proof that a mortal being did it before.
    That there are hardly any mortals who did it before is the point, the Ren'dorei are truly exceptional and extraordinary.

    Regardless read my edit to the last post, therein lies the answer you are looking for
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  17. #14597
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Even before Shadowlands, 3 mere trolls could already "delve into the Shadowlands". Talanji, Rokhan, and Master Gadrin conducted a ritual to delve into the Shadowlands and locate Vol'jin's missing spirit.

    If a Shadow Hunter, an old troll, and a young princess can delve into the Shadowlands via a ritual (and the quest took place BEFORE Talanji became Queen and Bwonsamdi's champion), the idea that the Ren'dorei (masters of dimensional teleportation magic) can't replicate such a feat shows clear bias against them.
    Oh so then the Ren'dorei AREN'T THE ONLY MORTALS WHO CAN DO IT. Which was what this entire argument was about because you claimed so earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    So Yes, it is Canonically shown that the Ren'dorei are the only race in Warcraft that didn't need any external help to enter the Shadowlands. Since even the lowest beast of the Void could enter Bastion.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  18. #14598
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    Oh so then the Ren'dorei AREN'T THE ONLY MORTALS WHO CAN DO IT. Which was what this entire argument was about because you claimed so earlier.
    Very well, I can concede on that.

    My points about the great injustice done to the Ren'dorei by biased Blizzard since their introduction would stand anyway.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  19. #14599
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Very well, I can concede on that.

    My points about the great injustice done to the Ren'dorei by biased Blizzard since their introduction would stand anyway.
    Why would blizzard care about that irrelevant race that was introduced for cosmetic purpose only? People wanted more elves, they made void elves, that's it.

  20. #14600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Very well, I can concede on that.

    My points about the great injustice done to the Ren'dorei by biased Blizzard since their introduction would stand anyway.
    Blizz is biased against a race they themselves brought to life and put in spotlight. Said by one of two most biased guys in this thread. Holy fuck. Impartiality intensifies.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

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