Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Varx]

…no? They’re on break bro

Are they, days before Xmas Eve?

[Palapop]

this. none of the zones in SL are excellent or come close to the best zones from previous expansions.
zone design has gone downhill since Legion, with none really standing out from BFA/SL. although the lacklustre BFA zones were slightly better and had more soul; in retrospect it was a sign of bad things to come

Agree with you 90%. Because, tbh, I REALLY liked BFA zones (especially all of Kul Tiras + Naz'jatar)

They had true "warcraft vibe" in it. Too bad we had 84239749273 systems that have ruined the expansion.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Agree with you 90%. Because, tbh, I REALLY liked BFA zones (especially all of Kul Tiras + Naz'jatar)

They had true "warcraft vibe" in it. Too bad we had 84239749273 systems that have ruined the expansion.

Picking two of the ugliest zones just shows how subjective "true warcraft vibe" is, because to me they were nothing of the sort. For example to me Naz'jatar was an fugly hellhole to farm Zin'anthid and nothing else.

[Zulggun]

Hot take, Legion had the worst zones in "new wow" time. Even so praised Suramar, while the city was nice it was brought down by how annoying it was to trawerse and how bland the "outside" part was.

[Palapop]

Picking two of the ugliest zones just shows how subjective "true warcraft vibe" is, because to me they were nothing of the sort. For example to me Naz'jatar was an fugly hellhole to farm Zin'anthid and nothing else.

1. Stormsong Valley is literally embodiment of WC 3 zones and most of vanilla wow.

2. About Naz'jatar- beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[LordKharon]

I love the horde side of BFA. "Inca/Aztec" design + dinosaurs is fantastic, especially architecture/weapons/armor.

[Dracullus]

Zones, dungeons, raids are always high points of any expansion. If I had to pick expac with worst zones, I think that would be MoP - Jade Forest is great, Valley pretty relaxing, but rest is as best mediocre (compared to other zones in WoW of course).

[Syegfryed]

Hot take, Legion had the worst zones in "new wow" time. Even so praised Suramar, while the city was nice it was brought down by how annoying it was to trawerse and how bland the "outside" part was.

hard truth, legion was an elf fest coming up with a continent out of their ass, only map that was rly cool in aesthetic was the vrykul one.

[TheFirstOnes]

Imagine if we had devs working on NEW stuff and updating zones rather than removing old text lines, jokes and replacing already existing content with bowl of fruit?

Crazy how the Art Team already does that, and has no hand in doing most of the other things that were mentioned. Also isn’t relevant to my point, bud.

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Strawmanning doesn’t fun you debates. Don’t try to slip past me with that bullshit. Not attacking you, I’m saying that the argument overall is odd and ratty

[ExiHext]

Rights, that's why I'm asking if there's a chance 10.0 would be announced instead, as a way to end the year.

I myself expect an announcement around february or whenever the cancelled blizzconline 2022 was planned. It's quite logical that they initially wanted to reveal the next expac then. Wouldn't be too surprised if we got a series of either livestreams or youtube videos in february for all franchises as a blizzcon replacement.

[Lady Atia]

I myself expect an announcement around february or whenever the cancelled blizzconline 2022 was planned. It's quite logical that they initially wanted to reveal the next expac then. Wouldn't be too surprised if we got a series of either livestreams or youtube videos in february for all franchises as a blizzcon replacement.

We won't get a blizzconline - that's why they cancelled it. 10.0 won't have to share screentime with the other franchises for it's announcement ^^

[ExiHext]

We won't get a blizzconline - that's why they cancelled it. 10.0 won't have to share screentime with the other franchises for it's announcement ^^

Uhm, that's what I said...no blizzcon(line), just some videos.

[Dracullus]

9.2 launch will be either late February of March. Revealing expac right before that would be just waste for Blizzard, it would make 9.2 secondary thing like Naxxramas last year.

If 10.0 is 2022 expansion (I doubt), still smartest move would be to reveal it right after world first. It must happen before Alpha, and there is no chance Alpha would start before last major patch is launched and hotfixed.

[Lady Atia]

Uhm, that's what I said...no blizzcon(line), just some videos.

You said they would do reveals for all franchises at the same time, which 100% won't happen as that would have been blizzconline like last year.

[Makorus]

So the one thing I learned from the last two pages is that people love to claim that certain zones don't feel like WoW zones, but can't describe why, and usually, the zones they don't like are part of expansions they don't like.

Interesting.

[Chickat]

It's not good formula when patches launch only during first half of expansion. Legion had perfect balance and timing, we don't really need other examples. Moving raid/season to minor patches was genius move - but that require fast X.1, where both SL and BfA failed.

Few years ago I thought 7.0 and 7.1 could be little longer to make patches even more close to each other, but I changed mind. Keeping momentum on first months is very imporant as well as giving few months to breathe before next expac.

Yeah, I think it's important to have the first patch within 3-4 months after launch. I'm also fine, even happy with 9 or 10 months at the end of the expansion. A year is too long though.

I think its time raid launches move back towards .5 patches.

Imagine if we got all non raid content from 9.1 3 or 4 months sooner.

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Oh yeah you can do a lot with grounded. Just specifically "Etheral Planet Space Expansion" and "Lifelands" are off the table.


Personally I'd like to see Blizz do something big and with the long-term in mind. Actually plan two expansions out and make 10.0 the "calm before the storm" where there's an actual planned storm instead of "we didn't plan a storm so here's N'Zoth in 10.3"

Id honestly be fine with even a simple expansion. Backside of Azeroth continent. Simple story like MoP. Nothing too grand. Id be fine to fight naga and pirates all expansion.

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lol what?

Don't mix ART and graphic technologies here (eg comparing Elwynn 2004 to Elysian hold 2020)

Some zones and sceneries are pretty, yes (Elysian hold, some of views in Ardenweald....) But that's it. Just pretty.

Def far, far above "the best wow has ever been". lol

Did you ever visit Crystalsong Forest? Nexus? Vash'jr? Arathi Highlands? Tiragarde? Stormsong? Vol'dun (even tho I hate deserts)? Storm Peaks?

If something "looks uglier" because it has less pixels, it doesn't mean it's actually uglier. Imagine all these zones with todays technologies.

Yes- SL is boring and bland.

Eh, I think SL looks just as good as any other expansion. You just dislike the theme.

[ExiHext]

You said they would do reveals for all franchises at the same time, which 100% won't happen as that would have been blizzconline like last year.

Never did I say "at the same time", I said "a series of..."

[Chickat]

I'm reminded of Towelliee saying 10.0 will be "different" as in they are clearly revamping the game inside and out. Probably take his words with a grain of salt as always but yeah, could be a harbinger of complete systems and gameplay overhauls on the horizon.

I wonder when they will announce 10.0? It has to be next year, and I think it has to be in the 1st half of it. I'm thinking 9.2 comes out first and then they focus on 10.0 reveal season once 9.2's raid is out the door and the WFR is done with.

If they release 9.2 in February or something, they are competing with games like Elden Ring and Lost Ark. Could come out late March, and WFR wrapping up late April, which leaves 10.0 reveal for May?

If Towelliee actually knows anything, the reveal is closer than March. I honestly don't believe he knows anything.

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What are the odds of 10.0 being announced this week, right before Christmas week and new years.

Maybe that's why there's no new build in the ptr this week.

Not gonna happen. I, pretty sure most people at blizzard are off until a few days after New Years. They have like 2 weeks off.

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Agree with you 90%. Because, tbh, I REALLY liked BFA zones (especially all of Kul Tiras + Naz'jatar)

They had true "warcraft vibe" in it. Too bad we had 84239749273 systems that have ruined the expansion.

So a zones art is bad unless it's traditional Warcraft. Got it. You might as well move on from WoW. Lots of Cosmic expansions coming your way.

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Zones, dungeons, raids are always high points of any expansion. If I had to pick expac with worst zones, I think that would be MoP - Jade Forest is great, Valley pretty relaxing, but rest is as best mediocre (compared to other zones in WoW of course).

Oh hell naw. Pandaria is peak WoW for me.

Just goes to show that the quality of zones hasn't gone downhill. People just like different themes and styles, which is fine.

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So the one thing I learned from the last two pages is that people love to claim that certain zones don't feel like WoW zones, but can't describe why, and usually, the zones they don't like are part of expansions they don't like.

Interesting.

Yep. I dont think zone quality has gone downhill at all. The only thing I would change is scale. Make them slightly larger again with some empty space like WoD. Gorgrond or Frostfire Ridge are good examples.

[Nyel]

this. none of the zones in SL are excellent or come close to the best zones from previous expansions.
zone design has gone downhill since Legion, with none really standing out from BFA/SL. although the lacklustre BFA zones were slightly better and had more soul; in retrospect it was a sign of bad things to come

Revendreth is incredibly well done and by far the best zone of Shadowlands overall - with flying. Without flying the zone is a giant mess. I agree that BfA had pretty much very middle-of-the-road zones, only with very few outliers (Zuldazar for example). Nothing tops Suramar though.

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I love the horde side of BFA. "Inca/Aztec" design + dinosaurs is fantastic, especially architecture/weapons/armor.

Totally agree. Kul'Tiras doesn't even come close to the aesthetics of Zandalar.

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If 10.0 is 2022 expansion (I doubt), still smartest move would be to reveal it right after world first. It must happen before Alpha, and there is no chance Alpha would start before last major patch is launched and hotfixed.

For Shadowlands they started Alpha roughly 3 months after the launch of 8.3 (April 2020) - I don't think they have 3 months buffer this time as that would mean Alpha only starts mid 2022.

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Imagine if we got all non raid content from 9.1 3 or 4 months sooner.

Do you think this would've helped Shadowlands? I think doubling down on the Maw was the issue here (that it came late as well). But who after 9.0 just wanted to revisit the Maw in 9.1 ... again?

[shise]

lol what?

Don't mix ART and graphic technologies here (eg comparing Elwynn 2004 to Elysian hold 2020)

Some zones and sceneries are pretty, yes (Elysian hold, some of views in Ardenweald....) But that's it. Just pretty.

Def far, far above "the best wow has ever been". lol

Did you ever visit Crystalsong Forest? Nexus? Vash'jr? Arathi Highlands? Tiragarde? Stormsong? Vol'dun (even tho I hate deserts)? Storm Peaks?

If something "looks uglier" because it has less pixels, it doesn't mean it's actually uglier. Imagine all these zones with todays technologies.

Yes- SL is boring and bland.

Sorry but you are wrong here.

We never saw areas with art, graphics or technlology like in Bastion or Ardenweald. The psky particles in Bastion are literally something new in wow and it covers all arts perfectly.

Equipment sets: The complexity of the architecture behind those equipment sets is at its highest level yet.

You talk from your taste/emotion.
I talk from a professional perspective lol. I happen to live out of something pretty similar to game designing. The differences are HUGE from the WoW of not long ago.

Now, the art has always been good in WoW... honestly, the best of nearly any other game out there (that migh be opinion/emotion) But as a fact now, they always managed something pretty hard to achieve: minimal beauty. Crystalsong Forest, as you mention, is one of the best examples of this. I´d also point TBC out, for example Nagrand.

In art you need to count on graphical technology, colors, textures and music. It all goes together and you can not take one out.