Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makorus]

Hes old design is so much better.. what ever people say about it.

Why? The Jailer wasn't a wise, old sage. He wasn't a wizard. It's barely intimidating. The design doesn't fit him in the slightest. Not saying the new design is good, don't get me wrong, but it's better than the concept art.

[cocomen2]

Amazing thread! Thanks for Help!

Are you designer for next expansion Villain?; make him Yellow, i am sick of these Blue,Red,Green bad guys, as bonus make him sough after GOLD or any kind of rich things, lets say he so greedy and down bad that his master plan to kidnap "Golden Child" sure no one ever though about it.
Add some kind of golden crown on it.

[Alanar]

Why? The Jailer wasn't a wise, old sage. He wasn't a wizard. It's barely intimidating. The design doesn't fit him in the slightest. Not saying the new design is good, don't get me wrong, but it's better than the concept art.

Idk I instantly liked the concept art.. more like a father of sleep kind of look, but a wise look indeed.

It was at that moment when I questioned the jailer evilness or why was he even considered to be evil at all?

Cus the orb was stolen from him etc, so I thought he was just part of some bad coup or missunderstood. When he would get the orb back from the arbiter he would turn into this again.

But we got is a blue guy covered in a slightly better thorghast plate gear, with questionable motives..I mean i still dont know why he wants to do what he is going to do..
Hes angry he got hes power taken from him and went for some reality reset for what ever reason. Man.. this story..

[Makorus]

Idk I instantly liked the concept art.. more like a father of sleep kind of look, but a wise look indeed.

It was at that moment when I questioned the jailer evilness or why was he even considered to be evil at all?

Cus the orb was stolen from him etc, so I thought he was just part of some bad coup or missunderstood. When he would get the orb back from the arbiter he would turn into this again.

But we got is a blue guy covered in a slightly better thorghast plate gear, with questionable motives..I mean i still dont know why he wants to do what he is going to do..
Hes angry he got hes power taken from him and went for some reality reset for what ever reason. Man.. this story..

And that's where the issue lies. The character comes first, and then they do a design around it. The fact that you got those feelings from that design means it's a bad design for the character they were going for. He was never meant to be a morally-grey character, or someone who you have to question whether they are evil or not. He is supposed to be unquestionably evil. He's the villain of the expansion. Just like Arthas was designed to look like a pure evil character, or Sargeras was, or Deathwing was.

Don't get me wrong, the design would have been cool for someone like the Runecarver, someone you don't know much about and you don't know what their full story is.

And let's not act like a lack of motives is exclusive to the Jailer. Why did any of the villains of previous expansions do anything other than "world control, I guess" or "we just wanna destroy the world lol"

[draugril]

Hes old design is so much better.. what ever people say about it.

It has a certain regality to it. Authority. History. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we don't still get the model (or if we were planned to get the model) in a flashback to his Arbiter days.

[Lahis]

Which is bad.

Well does anyone expect anything good from Blizzard anymore?

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Are you designer for next expansion Villain?; make him Yellow, i am sick of these Blue,Red,Green bad guys, as bonus make him sough after GOLD or any kind of rich things, lets say he so greedy and down bad that his master plan to kidnap "Golden Child" sure no one ever though about it.
Add some kind of golden crown on it.

Once the Light expansion hits you will be sick of yellow villains.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

And that's where the issue lies. The character comes first, and then they do a design around it. The fact that you got those feelings from that design means it's a bad design for the character they were going for. He was never meant to be a morally-grey character, or someone who you have to question whether they are evil or not. He is supposed to be unquestionably evil. He's the villain of the expansion. Just like Arthas was designed to look like a pure evil character, or Sargeras was, or Deathwing was.

Don't get me wrong, the design would have been cool for someone like the Runecarver, someone you don't know much about and you don't know what their full story is.

And let's not act like a lack of motives is exclusive to the Jailer. Why did any of the villains of previous expansions do anything other than "world control, I guess" or "we just wanna destroy the world lol"

I don't see the issue, the Jailer isn't meant to look nice or anything like that.

[draugril]

I don't see the issue, the Jailer isn't meant to look nice or anything like that.

I think his design falls into a trap similar to the one that "The Maw," as a zone, fell into. Yes, the Maw was oppressive, foreboding, and had you longing to rush through and escape as quickly as possible. It was an absolutely, technically fantastic approximation of an Underworld/Hell made manifest in an MMO setting. The problem is... this is a video game. Ostensibly, you want the player to enjoy themselves. Have fun.

While the Jailer absolutely nails that spartan, oppressive, and intimidating design... it's just not a fun design. He doesn't necessarily need to be "nice" to look at, but he should at least be visually interesting. There are so many characters in fiction that people "love to hate" because of their personality and/or visual design. Ostensibly this game exists to entertain. God knows his personality (or lack thereof) isn't going to provide that entertainment, so they might as well entertain with his design. Have fun with it! It needn't be as drab as it is, both before and after transformation.

[Zexaniro]

all of the shadowlands zones are overly cluttered and soulless yes -- this isnt a SL issue, this zone trend started back in Legion (but Legion actually had a few excellent classic zones) and the game is worse off with it.

[cocomen2]

Once the Light expansion hits you will be sick of yellow villains.

Oh dear that was sarcasm, all this plot villains so boring and only different in color theme...sad af.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh dear that was sarcasm, all this plot villains so boring and only different in color theme...sad af.

Oversimplifying villains isn't really an argument.

[Lamoth]

Maw was the best feature of Shadowlands, problem is it was too small and easy to survive, should have been 10 times bigger and way more dangerous, with dynamic 'eye' system based of number of players actively fighting close by, which would drop crazy strong enemies and one shot attacks on large groups of players.

Instead, we got lobby games players ruining any chance for this game to be an MMORPG again with their whinning.

Such a pity.

[draugril]

Maw was the best feature of Shadowlands, problem is it was too small and easy to survive, should have been 10 times bigger and way more dangerous, with dynamic 'eye' system based of number of players actively fighting close by, which would drop crazy strong enemies and one shot attacks on large groups of players.

Instead, we got lobby games players ruining any chance for this game to be an MMORPG again with their whinning.

Such a pity.

I agree with your second sentence, to a degree. Your first run-on sentence is precisely why the Maw was not well-received dialed up to 11: it was a perfect expression of Hell in an MMO setting. The problem is, no matter how technically competent and true to concept the end product is... that's not fun.

[Raetary]

Meanwhile we have the now dead queen never specify if her child was a boy or girl only that she lost track of her child and husband

She did specify.
She specifically mentioned having a daughter in BtS.

[Revamp Man]

She did specify.
She specifically mentioned having a daughter in BtS.

Well damn I must have spaced during that part of the audio book

Scarlet crusade is going to get wrekt by the undead queen, her gryphon riding daughter, and daddy lich king

[Edward Wu]

I am not saying that Shadowlands is a good expansion, because it's not, but shitting on everything Shadowlands related because the expansion is bad is peak-cringe.

People arguing that the Shadowlands zones don't have "soul" and don't feel "wow-like" simply because they are from Shadowlands is hilarious. Blizzard could have put, idek, Grizzle Hills in Shadowlands and everyone would have acted like it's the worst zone imaginable.

Blizzard should stop advertising the game tbh because they are living in everyones head rent-free anyway.

Your first sentence is reasonable and I accept your expanation.

Your next two sentences are ridiculous, and I think you miss the point of people who say that stuff. You have to understand that the core of Warcraft is in Azeroth. Even when we left Azeroth early on back in BC, the designers made sure to take key elements of the WC1-3 and Vanilla WoW story into Outland. Outland felt extremely connected to Azeroth and frankly still does. It feels like a natural extension of it. We could easily go back to Outland in a future expansion.

The same cannot be said of the Shadowlands. They feel distinctly alien in a way that is not relatable with the majority of players and it clearly seems intentional. That's a bad thing. When you move away from your core identity, you will get complaints. The designers don't just get to make whatever they want, they have to stay within the confines of what's already been established.

There are certainly elements of the Shadowlands that are cool, but they make an unnecessary effort to build up a world that is not relatable. Do you remember the beginning of the expansion late in 2020 when people were basically calling the Shadowlands hell? Bastion's story and atmosphere felt very inhuman and cruel, even machine-like. The covenants and zone's characters (aside from the obvious story baits like Uther, Kael etc.) do not have any real connection to Azeroth.

It doesn't help that the Shadowlands story retcons so much shit to hell and back that it is simply unreasonable.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Maw was the best feature of Shadowlands, problem is it was too small and easy to survive, should have been 10 times bigger and way more dangerous, with dynamic 'eye' system based of number of players actively fighting close by, which would drop crazy strong enemies and one shot attacks on large groups of players.

Instead, we got lobby games players ruining any chance for this game to be an MMORPG again with their whinning.

Such a pity.

Less that more having a Dark Souls esquezone is not a good design for the mainstream.

But I mean Blizzard isnt there to write a proper story, is there to make money and if they can keep Sylvanas stans subbed is a win.

Maybe in your mind and those that seem to obsess over danuser sure but thats not why they write the story the way it is.

[Dioporco]

It's still baffling to me that some people screaming "it's not a redemption!" have no idea what redemption is. Redemption doesn't require you to be forgiven by ANYONE. Redemption is largely internal. Redemption consists of remorse + atonement. It's very simple to grasp. And as far as that goes, Sylvanas is halfway there already. What will become of her atonement, we're yet to see.

Still not a redemption.


Is like eating shit and telling is waygu, no chief is still shit.


But I mean Blizzard isnt there to write a proper story, is there to make money and if they can keep Sylvanas stans subbed is a win.

[draugril]

Less that more having a Dark Souls esquezone is not a good design for the mainstream.

Counterpoint: the Maw would have been received incredibly well if it wasn't tied into player power and was its own thing entirely.

[Dioporco]

Not interesting? The fuck? You do realize this could be a perfect tie in expansion to the more Cosmic side of things yeah? Dragons + Civil War on Azeroth with invasion of SW being the prepatch or summ? Fuck yeah. Also Helya ain’t dead and I’m sure the forces of Zovaal would have contingencies in case Zovaal’s attempt at destroying the Cosmos + the chart failed.

Wow that sounds terrible