Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Cosmic Janitor]

Actually, that's mostly you missing the major points there. Ardenweald did not have the ability to check. Bwonsamdi isn't actually a local, so they weren't "keeping him around". It also takes pretty much the entirety of the Bastion storyline to get Kyrestia to even consider the notion of changing anything. Not-my-problem and we've-always-done-it-that-way are very much endemic problems for the Kyrians, and that's what their entire story is about.

Also, when we first arrive, Oribos is completely shut off from everything.
As is, everybody knew that something was wrong, but the only ones capable of checking were either stuck in an extreme bureaucratic mindset and did not consider it part of their job to check, which is very much pointed out as a flaw of theirs, or were in on the whole deal and actively tried to prevent it from being found out.

Always the stalward defender of this bullshit. When we arive in oribos the whole thing is already crawling with brokers and the covenants have a direct line to the arbiter as they show afterwards when you finish revendreth. Kleia is also some random aspirant, not a full fledged Kyrian that has been ferrying souls for eternity. They are clearly capable of individual thought, but none of them do because it's the only way the nonsense plot happens. And even when they know they keep chugging souls in the maw. The only ones with an excuse here are Maldraxxus and Revendreth, the former beause they are headless chickens without the Primus, the later being the actual betrayers.

[draugril]

It does not terribly matter if they do it ASAP or in 5 months - the end result will be the same and will squarely be decided by quality of 10.0.

Right now they need to focus on delivering 9.2.

I don't need their apologies, who even cares. I need them to deliver content and do it in good time.

Eh, to be perfectly honest, if the concept for a new expansion were to interest me, I would probably be willingly manipulated into subscribing now "in preparation." I have investment in WoW's past, not its present. I've run out of goodwill. I am more than willing to play again if the future looks bright, however. Right now, it's just a void, and the current direction of the game isn't exactly inspiring me with hope.

[Dioporco]

You really think Blizz writes the story to cater to them, or to anyone else? Not to mention sylvibois went almost extinct since BfA bbq party.

No Sylvibois are still there, because you can clearly see the amount of people that are ok with Stlvanas redemption or current Lore direction.

Otherwise is just a fetish dream from Danuser made as Lore.

Is just like making shop mounts for the whales instead of as content.

[Super Dickmann]

I don't think covid affected the major plot points, just the minor nuances. Just look at the way they jammed all the Tyrande stuff into 9.1

You think this soul splitting stuff was supposed to be the ripcord on the "Sylvanas was right" storyline? That would have been way less complicated than what we got. They handwaved Illidan into jesus.

The soul splitting thing was likely intended fairly early on, given the focus on Uther in the pre-release materials and it being already included in side books like that Fairy Tales collection. It's the infinity stones that were the ripcord for a patch focusing on Ardenweald, hence how they never come up in the entirety of 9.0 where the focus is on the Heart of the Forest as the seal for the Maw only for that aspect to be ditched. See also how the infinity stones serve no purpose save for the very last one on the Arbiter which was a visual element from Day 1 and how they in no way inform what the Bald Man does in the last patch. They were purely a plot contrivance to zoom past content and a way to shove in all the Covenant and zone resolutions into a single patch for lack of space.

[Sondrelk]

The soul splitting thing was likely intended fairly early on, given the focus on Uther in the pre-release materials and it being already included in side books like that Fairy Tales collection. It's the infinity stones that were the ripcord for a patch focusing on Ardenweald, hence how they never come up in the entirety of 9.0 where the focus is on the Heart of the Forest as the seal for the Maw only for that aspect to be ditched. See also how the infinity stones serve no purpose save for the very last one on the Arbiter which was a visual element from Day 1 and how they in no way inform what the Bald Man does in the last patch. They were purely a plot contrivance to zoom past content and a way to shove in all the Covenant and zone resolutions into a single patch for lack of space.

A hypothetical Ardenweald patch would probably make the expansion feel more cohesive in most regards honestly. The heart of the forest is one thing, but we also didn't really get a resolution to the Tyrande story so much as it was stopped dead in its tracks and airlifted to the ending
The Drust are another aspect that feels very out of place in the grand scheme. Seemingly just there as filler, which is a niche the Gorm already fill. A 9.2 bridging patch focusing more on Ardenweald could possibly give a better link between between the Drust and the Jailer, as well as linking the Jailer to the Old Gods, giving some lore on that.

The macguffins*5 is one thing, but I think it's Tyrande that really feels like there was supposed to be more to it. Not just the general sense that her story just kinda ends without rhyme or reason, but also how the fight against her seems very much like it was meant to be an actual boss battle in an instance.


I doubt Blizzard would ever publicly admit to cutting stuff, at least not to that extent. There are other times it's been abundantly clear something was cut, like Shattrath in WoD, but never a developer straight out stating what they cut, what it was supposed to look like, and why it was cut, so I very much doubt they would start now.

[draugril]

I doubt Blizzard would ever publicly admit to cutting stuff, at least not to that extent.

Which is unfortunate. I appreciate transparency. Transparency allows for dialogue and empathy. Instead, we just have cynical speculation which would be completely unnecessary if they were simply more free with the truth.

If they came out and said they cut out a raid tier, gave us their rationale, and apologized... the dialogue around Blizzard would have an entirely different tone.

[Sondrelk]

Which is unfortunate. I appreciate transparency. Transparency allows for dialogue and empathy. Instead, we just have cynical speculation which would be completely unnecessary if they were simply more free with the truth.

If they came out and said they cut out a raid tier, gave us their rationale, and apologized... the dialogue around Blizzard would have an entirely different tone.

I can kinda see why, it would probably create more harm than good to admit to stuff they simply didn't do, rather than leave it up in the air.

Shattrath for instance. If they admit they didn't do it then they would only really get anger for not having commited to what is clearly a cool idea, rather than what we got which is obviously terrible.

I had this discussion when Korthia came out and we learned of the library afterlife, which sounds amazing and possibly better than what we got, but only because we have not a really seen it, and rather got something which has lost its luster.

There also isn't really anything to gain from showing it. If it gets a good response then Blizzard can't exactly go back in time and change it, they just have to live with it potentially having been a good idea they didn't do.


That being said I do wish we got more insight into the design process. It would definitely be annoying to see good idea that got scrapped, but at least we see some fun stuff.

[huth]

Always the stalward defender of this bullshit. When we arive in oribos the whole thing is already crawling with brokers and the covenants have a direct line to the arbiter as they show afterwards when you finish revendreth. Kleia is also some random aspirant, not a full fledged Kyrian that has been ferrying souls for eternity. They are clearly capable of individual thought, but none of them do because it's the only way the nonsense plot happens. And even when they know they keep chugging souls in the maw. The only ones with an excuse here are Maldraxxus and Revendreth, the former beause they are headless chickens without the Primus, the later being the actual betrayers.

Yes, the Brokers. Who aren't members of any of the four Covenants and shown to have their own, independent travel, but also completely unrelated interests and valuing business above fixing anything. Notably, they have no meaningful presence in Ardenweald. The "direct line" also is only shown to work after we reopened communications with all 4.
Not sure why you even bring up Kleia, since i didn't mention her at all. Nor did i claim they're incapable of individualism - what they're having a problem with is diverging from routine, which is actually a pretty real thing in bureaucracy.

[Makabreska]

No Sylvibois are still there, because you can clearly see the amount of people that are ok with Stlvanas redemption or current Lore direction.

Otherwise is just a fetish dream from Danuser made as Lore.

Is just like making shop mounts for the whales instead of as content.

So you really think there is enough of them to bend entire story line? Because I saw like 2 die-hard ones here, everyone else is generally tired of the character and want to be done with her. Not to even mention being fed up with current lore. And again, Danuser fixation for some people is getting out of hand.

[draugril]

There also isn't really anything to gain from showing it. If it gets a good response then Blizzard can't exactly go back in time and change it, they just have to live with it potentially having been a good idea they didn't do.

That's the truth whether they admit to it or not. Anger is going to present whether they admit to it or not. But like I tell my daughter, if you screw up, you need to explain and apologize. Even if it's uncomfortable to do so. Even if there is "nothing to gain." Even if it can't change what happened. It's called having integrity.

Even at work, when someone younger starts, I try to emphasize this mentality to them. In short, "You aren't going to get in (major) trouble for screwing up - you're going to get in trouble for trying to hide that you did and leaving it unresolved."

Blizzard's PR strategy should not be the corporate equivalent of running away, hiding, and putting their thumbs in their ears and pretend that nothing is wrong. We've seen recent evidence that they're moving away from this, but that promise is still entirely untested.

[Hitei]

That's the truth whether they admit to it or not. Anger is going to present whether they admit to it or not. But like I tell my daughter, if you screw up, you need to explain and apologize. Even if it's uncomfortable to do so. Even if there is "nothing to gain." Even if it can't change what happened. It's called having integrity.

Even at work, when someone younger starts, I try to emphasize this mentality to them. In short, "You aren't going to get in (major) trouble for screwing up - you're going to get in trouble for trying to hide that you did and leaving it unresolved."

Blizzard's PR strategy should not be the corporate equivalent of running away, hiding, and putting their thumbs in their ears and pretend that nothing is wrong. We've seen recent evidence that they're moving away from this, but that promise is still entirely untested.

Both of your examples are based on doing something wrong and reporting that mistake to an authority though. Which is not at all the situation being compared against, which is removing a planned piece of content and the not pointing out that they removed it an explaining why.

When you are looking for Christmas presents for your daughter, and see something nice you think she would like but the price is too high, or it's out of stock, or the shipping would take too long, do you then go to your daughter and say "Hey sweetheart, I was thinking about getting you X for Christmas, but then I decided not to." Why would you ever? It's not hiding something you did wrong or running away, it's not deliberately making an even bigger issue out of somethin disappointing.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I concur, I think we need the next expansion announcement ASAP, with teasers and a blue post on Blizzard getting down to work, and taking their time on working on 10.0; apologizing for Shadowlands. Just some good PR stuff to hold people over. Make Timewalking permanent, bring out Battle for Azeroth Timewalking. Bring back those old Timewalking Raids like Molten Core. Add some minor stuff to Micro Holidays to hold people over til 10.0

They cannot apologize due to Activision side seeing that as a liability or Team 2 has severe pride issues, either way. You will never see them apologize for bad expansions and you can expect them to not do it when 10.0 collapses prior to launch too.

Also again, it is very likely that the expansion Alpha will be in April if it is later than April a Q4 2022 will be a guaranteed fiasco as they at least have to be able to have the same testing cycle as Shadowlands.

[Shelldor]

Same for her burning Teldrassil. Apparently this was a part of her plan all along? Then why was portrayed as an unplanned emotional outburst? They can't have their cake and eat it, too - they need to choose one or the other.

If it was an emotional outburst, great! That has a lot of dramatic potential!

If it was planned all along? Show us her confidently and coldly giving the order. Also great! Very dramatic!

Have us wondering what her plan is, not whether or not one exists (hers or the writers). Instead, they tried to do both, solely for the sake of misleading the audience so we could be "shocked" later on at the reveal. But that reveal has no dramatic value if it's entirely contrived and not set up properly beforehand.

I think this can be explained without much of a stretch. The catapults were already there and loaded with whatever has the ability to burn a world tree from across a large body of water. Burning the tree was always part of the plan. The emotional outburst was just icing on the cake- and it was from the POV of Delaryn Summermoon, who wouldn't have known of the plan anyway. "You can't destroy Hope!" "Oh, can't I? BURN IT!" It's like yelling "release the hounds" when the hounds were already tugging at the chains.

[draugril]

I think this can be explained without much of a stretch. The catapults were already there and loaded with whatever has the ability to burn a world tree from across a large body of water. Burning the tree was always part of the plan. The emotional outburst was just icing on the cake- and it was from the POV of Delaryn Summermoon, who wouldn't have known of the plan anyway. "You can't destroy Hope!" "Oh, can't I? BURN IT!" It's like yelling "release the hounds" when the hounds were already tugging at the chains.

Fair enough! Resolve it in the next scene, then, instead of taking two years to "reveal" character development instead of simply developing characters naturally.

[ohwell]

They frequently announce expansions before the last raid tier is even open. Why would that suddenly matter now?

- - - Updated - - -


I don't think covid affected the major plot points, just the minor nuances. Just look at the way they jammed all the Tyrande stuff into 9.1

You think this soul splitting stuff was supposed to be the ripcord on the "Sylvanas was right" storyline? That would have been way less complicated than what we got. They handwaved Illidan into jesus.

Wasn't suggesting covid. I was suggesting the reception they got from the story and the now rushed ending.

The soul splitting had nothing to do with the "right" thing other than her other soul hating what she did. Everything in the story still indicates the Jailer was most likely right and that we're just too insignificant to him to bother stopping and telling the little boys and girls. I mean things didn't go too well the last time he tried to explain himself to his own kin....

[draugril]

Wasn't suggesting covid. I was suggesting the reception they got from the story and the now rushed ending.

The soul splitting had nothing to do with the "right" thing other than her other soul hating what she did. Everything in the story still indicates the Jailer was most likely right and that we're just too insignificant to him to bother stopping and telling the little boys and girls. I mean things didn't go too well the last time he tried to explain himself to his own kin....

There's this interesting trick in storytelling where you have a scene or two to communicate important plot points to your audience without revealing that information to your protagonist.

[Chickat]

Boss tha ports out to face us at his true death in Cata

Oh that makes sense.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The plot currently mirrors N'zoths' storyline to a tee. Big unstoppable Villain is just about to win but is stopped by the unlikely heroes due to Plot Armor and the need of gratification and dopamine for the MMORPG player.

They basically went insane and repeated the exact same narrative again with the exact same narrative outcome while in this one they were even more insistent on the fact that the big unstoppable villain would win but no one in the audience fell for it.

[draugril]

The plot currently mirrors N'zoths' storyline to a tee. Big unstoppable Villain is just about to win but is stopped by the unlikely heroes due to Plot Armor and the need of gratification and dopamine for the MMORPG player.

They basically went insane and repeated the exact same narrative again with the exact same narrative outcome while in this one they were even more insistent on the fact that the big unstoppable villain would win but no one in the audience fell for it.

It's pretty telling when even a good chunk of the people that are currently enjoying the game are hoping that the villain wins and ends existence as we know it, just so the status quo might possibly shift. The stagnation hurts.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

It's pretty telling when even a good chunk of the people that are currently enjoying the game are hoping that the villain wins and ends existence as we know it, just so the status quo might possibly shift. The stagnation hurts.

They've put too much pressure on this Zovaal Cinematic. People will joke and go "Ah, we're all gonna preorder anyways". True, for some of us we will still preorder the next expansion no matter what because "Fuck it, a third bad expansion cycle is fine too".

I definitely am curious to see when Danuser's ego isn't big enough to pull off the big ending and instead goes for the Zovaal dead, Shadowlands is safe and we leave and oh shit chaos Azeroth expansion with cosmic layer on top of our Azeroth expansion wow this is going to be so fun!

What are peoples' reaction once they are hit with the double whammy of Zovaal laser'd and a Azeroth expansion that is corrupted to be a cosmic plot on Azeroth.

It just seems they've set up the worst case scenario to sell a new World of Warcraft product in with clear hostilities being asserted towards the writers.

Unless Danuser's ego is big enough to do the big ending with a reset. Which would blow the fuck out of any criticism and bring the hype back to the product. I am just cozying up to the fallout of the Zovaal Raid Cinematic being what it is and the countless meme jokes during the Race for World First about Zovaal.

Again, I'm waiting with great anticipation to see what they choose.