Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

The Nightmare is but one aspect of the entire realm. It's like saying the Helya dungeon accounted for the Shadowlands since she appears there as an ally of the Jailer.

Again, you are just being completely dishonest, and I don't know why, since obviously you're not gonna fool me with it, and I really doubt you actually believe what you are typing.

Helya is a secondary lieutenant of the Jailer. Helheim is her pocket realm that isn't even part of the Shadowlands.
The Emerald Nightmare instance takes place 100% in the dream. It involves, objectively, going across the Dream's world to different regions to fight the various Nightmare bosses. It cultminates in you going into the literal heart of the Dream, its primordial source and origin, the Rift of Aln to kill the primary antagonist of the Emerald Dream, Xavius, the NIGHTMARE LORD.

How could you possibly think that is anything like Helya? I don't think you do. You realize this is an absolutely absurd comparison, you just really wish they hadn't taken care of the Dream in Legion. If we had instead had a raid where you just go to Val'sharah, and just fight Renferal, then maybe you would have a point. But that isn't what happened.

What you are claiming is that, if we had a raid in Legion that had us go to the Shadowlands, use portals to fight the Jailer's forces in Bastion, Castle Nathria, the Heart of the Forest, and the arena in Maldraxxus, and then in the end we teleported to Oribos and fought and killed the Jailer, it would be reasonable to say "Shadowlands has never really fully appeared in-game, we've just seen bits and pieces".

[EbaumsTipster]

I don't follow the request I often see here. So you are looking forward to an expac happening in the Emerald Dream which was stated many times to be the blueprint of Warcrafr reality and yet piss on Zereth Mortis before even experiencing it...

ED lore has changed many times over the years. Currently it is a Titan-created blueprint of Azeroth only, made with Lifelands power (inferred).

This makes it similar to ZM but less important.

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To be honest if they do Dragonflight Covenant System but without the Power implication. I'd be down for that if it is a Dragon Isles expansion. Could lead to some cool themed Dragonflight sets too. But, yeah IDK what's going to happen. Besides, the Campaign System probably won't change so having so many campaigns unavailable without alt play will probably be fun again. (Heavy sarcasm)

Maybe they look at the Hearthstone Team and do something like that but in WoW, I don't know. I just don't see them doing anything on Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor due to the resource problem and the other issues currently without there being severe paralell development occurring since BFA.

Also again this product HAS to ship before 2022 ends which just means conspiracy theory level of thinking for a Azeroth based expansion involving EK and Kalimdor.

Most of Shadowlands was complete when it shipped in 2021, why does "most of the team moved to big expansion" sound like a conspiracy to you?

Korthia is incredibly unique asset lite, Zereth Mortis is the only really big addition aside from the raids.

[Varodoc]

The next expansion is all but confirmed to be Dragon Isles.

As I said before my unfortunate () Christmas vacation, I expect N'Zoth to come back and threaten the Dragon aspects once more. The set-up is there, with the Void Dragon Vexiona in BfA who led a Cult of the Void and was the first of the Void Dragons seen in WoW. That she exists implies there might be other of her kind. The Infinite Dragons are also unaccounted for, they too served N'Zoth and helped him in the attempt to usher in the Hour of Twilight/the End Times.

If not N'Zoth (although I find it extremely, blatantly obvious that he will come back), the Void Lords themselves might make a power move, after the Janitor is out of the way, a power move that might for some reason involve the dragons (maybe they have a MacGuffin that the Void Lords seek).

And naturally what this means is that the more Void-oriented races, like the Ren'dorei of the Alliance, would receive the spotlight, in the fight against the Void...

Looks like this forum is still talking about the Emerald Dream, what a surprise. On the official forums way more people have figured out that the Dragon Isles are next, and I mean, the hints are pretty obvious.

[ExiHext]

Then why don't you just stay there and annoy the people over there with your constant voidelf fanaticism? I'm asking for a friend.

[username993720]

It cultminates in you going into the literal heart of the Dream, its primordial source and origin, the Rift of Aln to kill the primary antagonist of the Emerald Dream, Xavius, the NIGHTMARE LORD.

You really believe Xavius is the ultimate Emerald Dream antagonist? Come one... he's just a Satyr. Think bigger.

What you are claiming is that, if we had a raid in Legion that had us go to the Shadowlands, use portals to fight the Jailer's forces in Bastion, Castle Nathria, the Heart of the Forest, and the arena in Maldraxxus, and then in the end we teleported to Oribos and fought and killed the Jailer, it would be reasonable to say "Shadowlands has never really fully appeared in-game, we've just seen bits and pieces".

You can't squeeze all of that into a raid.

I'll give you another example. We've dealt with the Titans, right? We got to see them in the seat of the Pantheon when we faced Argus. They're all wrapped up and done, right? Well, Blizzard clearly stated that they intend to introduce a Titan Homeworld in the future.
So, are you literally going to ignore the fact that they introduced a Pantheon of life with the Grimoire of the Shadowlands and associated Elune with it?

I guess we already dealt with them in a raid

ED lore has changed many times over the years. Currently it is a Titan-created blueprint of Azeroth only, made with Lifelands power (inferred).

This makes it similar to ZM but less important.

The Life plane has its own Zereth Mortis, called Zereth Vitae.

[Ersula]

The Life plane has its own Zereth Mortis, called Zereth Vitae.

You can't assume that based solely on Mortis being translated as death & life translated to Vitae. Especially when the Devs explained Zereth Mortis made all the afterlives AND EVERYTHING ELSE. Zereth Mortis the origin point for everything, not just "death" related things.

The Winter Queen already explained the Emerald Dream is the life equivalent to the Shadowlands: it's in her earliest dialog.

Also I assume I don't have to poke holes in the claim that titans, who are birthed from individual planets, & nomadically travel from world-to-world would somehow share a "homeworld"

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Most of Shadowlands was complete when it shipped in 2021, why does "most of the team moved to big expansion" sound like a conspiracy to you?

Korthia is incredibly unique asset lite, Zereth Mortis is the only really big addition aside from the raids.

I mean I would be so surprised that they managed to cook up a Azeroth EK and Kalimdor Revamp by doing that though. Like it's a WoD but with even less time and it led to a Broken Isles so I don't know.

[EbaumsTipster]

I mean I would be so surprised that they managed to cook up a Azeroth EK and Kalimdor Revamp by doing that though. Like it's a WoD but with even less time and it led to a Broken Isles so I don't know.

Well with the Nelf structures revamp in BFA (which aren’t used much at all in Darkshore but artists rehauled them in multiple colors anyway) and the Human structures in SL files this could have been a multi expansion behind the scenes kind of thing. There was actually a new graphic texture for Westfall that was discovered in BFA (made people think there might be a Warfront there) but may be about 10.0 instead.

Remember that there were a lot of warfronts conceptually so they may have worked on many assets we don’t see in the files: Mulgore/Barrens warfront, SMC, etc.

[Hitei]

You really believe Xavius is the ultimate Emerald Dream antagonist? Come one... he's just a Satyr. Think bigger.

I don't "believe" it. I am telling you an objective fact: the primary antagonist of the Emerald Dream is the Nightmare. The ultimate leader of the Nightmare's forces is Xavius, who is dead.

You can't squeeze all of that into a raid.

And yet the Emerald Nightmare raid did exactly that. Is that the problem here? That you haven't actually done that raid and don't know it takes place in the Emerald Dream, and that each section of it involves travelling to a different, crucially important region of the Dream and fighting the Nightmare's strongest forces there?

I'll give you another example. We've dealt with the Titans, right? We got to see them in the seat of the Pantheon when we faced Argus. They're all wrapped up and done, right? Well, Blizzard clearly stated that they intend to introduce a Titan Homeworld in the future.
So, are you literally going to ignore the fact that they introduced a Pantheon of life with the Grimoire of the Shadowlands and associated Elune with it?

I guess we already dealt with them in a raid .

Look if you're not even going to bother actually responding to arguments, I'm not going to bother to keep replying. Did we already go to the Titan Homeworld? Was there an entire raid instance that already took place in different parts of that Homeworld? Did we kill the Titans at the end of it? This whataboutism is just sad. The fact that you keep having to go "b-but there's the Lifelands and Pantheon of Life?" two things that aren't the Emerald Dream, should be a red flag for you indicating just how done the concept is. Because the reality is that you understand that the Dream is already dealt with so much that even you envision an "EmEralD dReAm" expansion as not being the Emerald Dream, but instead some other completely different, yet to exist place with completely different, yet to be defined powers and a completely different, currently non-existent threat that all have absolutely nothing to do with the Emerald Dream, beyond both being associated with "Life".

The fact that a theoretical "Lifelands" might exist doesn't change that the Emerald Dream has been dealt with, and in all likelihood, if such an expansion were to come out, the Emerald Dream's only role (if it had any at all, which is doubtful) would be as some sort of entryway or hub into the actual realm of Life. Like Icecrown in Shadowlands, the Maelstrom in Cataclysm, or Dalaran in Legion.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Well with the Nelf structures revamp in BFA (which aren’t used much at all in Darkshore but artists rehauled them in multiple colors anyway) and the Human structures in SL files this could have been a multi expansion behind the scenes kind of thing. There was actually a new graphic texture for Westfall that was discovered in BFA (made people think there might be a Warfront there) but may be about 10.0 instead.

Remember that there were a lot of warfronts conceptually so they may have worked on many assets we don’t see in the files: Mulgore/Barrens warfront, SMC, etc.

This is correct, there were multiple Warfronts that went unused. It would make sense, asset creation usually move on to the next thing fastest too. We'll see, again I have no idea what is going to happen with 10.0. They could've done paralell development or made all the asset for a Azeroth Revamp early and they are working on that.

But yeah, I don't know I have my doubts because it is easier to set the hype levels low than to be disappointed when it is cosmos on Azeroth or Dragon Isles.

[username993720]

You can't assume that based solely on Mortis being translated as death & life translated to Vitae. Especially when the Devs explained Zereth Mortis made all the afterlives AND EVERYTHING ELSE. Zereth Mortis the origin point for everything, not just "death" related things.

There is a Zereth to each cosmic force. Patch 9.2 text tells us that.

The Winter Queen already explained the Emerald Dream is the life equivalent to the Shadowlands: it's in her earliest dialog.

Obviously, as life and death are opposites.

Also I assume I don't have to poke holes in the claim that titans, who are birthed from individual planets, & nomadically travel from world-to-world would somehow share a "homeworld"

A dev literally said that. I didn't come with it.

I don't "believe" it. I am telling you an objective fact: the primary antagonist of the Emerald Dream is the Nightmare. The ultimate leader of the Nightmare's forces is Xavius, who is dead.

He's, literally, a Satyr twisted by the Nightmare's energies. No more than a pawn of the Old Gods. If we thought the Lich King was the ultimate Death entity, we discovered otherwise with Shadowlands. Try to open your mind.

And yet the Emerald Nightmare raid did exactly that. Is that the problem here? That you haven't actually done that raid and don't know it takes place in the Emerald Dream, and that each section of it involves travelling to a different, crucially important region of the Dream and fighting the Nightmare's strongest forces there?

If you think this is all there is, you lack sight.

Look if you're not even going to bother actually responding to arguments, I'm not going to bother to keep replying. Did we already go to the Titan Homeworld? Was there an entire raid instance that already took place in different parts of that Homeworld? Did we kill the Titans at the end of it? This whataboutism is just sad.

We, literally, defeated two titans in that raid. I think that's enough according to your standards.

The fact that you keep having to go "b-but there's the Lifelands and Pantheon of Life?" two things that aren't the Emerald Dream, should be a red flag for you indicating just how done the concept is. Because the reality is that you understand that the Dream is already dealt with so much that even you envision an "EmEralD dReAm" expansion as not being the Emerald Dream, but instead some other completely different, yet to exist place with completely different, yet to be defined powers and a completely different, currently non-existent threat that all have absolutely nothing to do with the Emerald Dream, beyond both being associated with "Life".

The fact that a theoretical "Lifelands" might exist doesn't change that the Emerald Dream has been dealt with, and in all likelihood, if such an expansion were to come out, the Emerald Dream's only role (if it had any at all, which is doubtful) would be as some sort of entryway or hub into the actual realm of Life. Like Icecrown in Shadowlands, the Maelstrom in Cataclysm, or Dalaran in Legion.

-_-
Really?



If the Shadowlands is the realm of death in that map, what is the realm of life if not the Emerald Dream?

[Luck4]

The fact that a theoretical "Lifelands" might exist doesn't change that the Emerald Dream has been dealt with, and in all likelihood, if such an expansion were to come out, the Emerald Dream's only role (if it had any at all, which is doubtful) would be as some sort of entryway or hub into the actual realm of Life. Like Icecrown in Shadowlands, the Maelstrom in Cataclysm, or Dalaran in Legion.

While I agree that the Emerald Dream could be just the entryway, it could also be just a small piece of "Lifelands", like Ardenweald is just a small piece of Shadowlands. We should also not forget that we explored mostly the corrupted version of the Dream, the Emerald Nightmare.

It's also worth mentioning, that considering the amount of retcons Blizzard made to fit Shadowlands narrative in something much bigger, making the Emerald Dream fitting into the "Lifelands" would be quite easy to explain.

The Dream could be like Bastion a place where some of its denizens appeared in Azeroth or played a role in some events, while the Elune zone could be another darker/nocturnal zone.

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PS: Now listen guys, I'm not saying that the Emerald Dream/Lifelands is the most obvious guess. I'm just saying that, with all things considered, we shouldn't ignore its likelihood of happening.

Personally, if I could choose, this Emerald Dream/Lifelands expansion would be on the bottom of my list:

1 - World Revamp (ofc)
2 - Dragon Isles;
3 - Emerald Dream/Lifelands;
4 - Something else;

[Varodoc]

World Revamp seems impossible after the Kalimdor book reiterated verbatim the status quo from Cataclysm.

The only reason why I say "seems" instead of "is", is because the EK book instead gives hints for the future. Mostly how Alleria Windrunner of the Ren'dorei insists that Quel'Thalas will stand with the Alliance again and that there are many in Quel'Thalas who would rejoin the Alliance.

[EbaumsTipster]

World Revamp seems impossible after the Kalimdor book reiterated verbatim the status quo from Cataclysm.

The only reason why I say "seems" instead of "is", is because the EK book instead gives hints for the future. Mostly how Alleria Windrunner of the Ren'dorei insists that Quel'Thalas will stand with the Alliance again and that there are many in Quel'Thalas who would rejoin the Alliance.

I’m pretty sure the EK book doesn’t have much regarding the Scarlet resurgence though, which is a plotline they are building up to. More than likely they just didn’t want to spoil anything ahead of a big reveal and, like Chronicle, the travel books aren’t meant to hype things but instead serve as a “heres what these things are like at the time the book comes out” reports.

Also I’m pretty sure the status quo isn’t perfectly exact because there’s no way they would do faction war questlines in Kalimdor following BFA. Definitely not in EK when there is no more Sylvanas. Is Turalyon as regent even mentioned in the EK book?

[Alanar]

When exactly did people start hating on tinkers?

I probably missed something, because last time around, pre-SL and pre-BFA, I don't remember people hating on this class concept. What happened?

I mean.. with Tinkers it's always like 60/40 opinion from what I can tell. Some adore it, but most hate it.

It was never liked by everyone in the first place.

[infinitemeridian]

World Revamp seems impossible after the Kalimdor book reiterated verbatim the status quo from Cataclysm.

The only reason why I say "seems" instead of "is", is because the EK book instead gives hints for the future. Mostly how Alleria Windrunner of the Ren'dorei insists that Quel'Thalas will stand with the Alliance again and that there are many in Quel'Thalas who would rejoin the Alliance.

Revamp seems unlikely to me seeing as they just redid the entire leveling experience and they can't make every zone worth going to at max level. There's really no point to the revamp. Likely we either get new continent ala dragon Isles or they "revamp" 5-6 old zones to be completely different.

[Chickat]

I'm pretty sure @Chickat means a patch zone.
Not it being part of whatever dragon isles continent they come up with.

Yeah, or even Dragon Isles is like 3 zones, and we also get Emerald Dream as 2 zones or something. Or yeah a patch zone.

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Would be disappointing, if you ask me. There's so much potential beyond "green forest".

Yeah, I think a BFA situation could work nicely.

The expansion has Dragons, goblins, Old God minions, Titan stuff, With maybe Undermind as our capital. Kinda weird to throw it in there, but Goblins played a big roll with dragons, so it could make some sense. Emerald dream would have 2 or 3 zones. 1 completely corrupted red kinda like Emerald Nightmare raid. Dungeon or raid there dealing with the void that was let in with Spriests. Maybe see the Winter Queen for a cameo idk. A green beautiful zone, and maybe a highlands mountainy zone with lots of lush moss-covered caves, waterfalls, Druid Barrow Dens.

Kind of a mish-mash of stuff, but Blizzard has been known to do that. I would prefer the ED and DI to be their own expansion, but blizzard doesn't do that as much anymore. They like to throw 12 plots in 1 expansion.

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I hope they use the next expansion to build upon timewalking/old content for each expansion similiar to what they did with the legion version:

- Classic: Give us access to old Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms via the CoT and also allow us to do old Zul Gurub (and maybe Naxxramas) as Timewalking raid, this way old rewards would still stay quite rare but atleast obtainable.
- TBC: Honestly not quite sure what they can do there, maybe just Sunwell as second TW raid aswell as M+ versions of the Dungeons?
- WotLK: Make an update to the Argent Tournament to bring in existing new races from Cata-BfA similiar to Hearthstone. Say the story is that we host the tournament every few months to clean out the feral Scourge there - basically making it a second Darkmoon Faire. Also maybe WotlK M+ Dungeons.
- Cataclysm: Not much content to harvest there, maybe Cata M+ Dungeons.
- MoP: Throne of Thunder TW raid aswell as Challenge Mode Dungeons - but use the missing third skin for the sets as rewards (f.e. the red paladin set or the blue mage one).
- WoD: Hellfire Citadell as TW raid aswell as Challenge Mode Dungeons - but give us green reskins of the weapons as rewards.

Also they could easily add mounts for finishing each expansions M+15/CM Dungeons, aswell as achievements for clearing each TW raid which are weirdly missing besides the Illidan Glaive one.

Honestly They should bring back the dailys in the expansions for more badges, and some new rewards.

TBC timewalking gets Isle dailys.
Wrath gets Argent tournament.
Cata gets Molten Front.
MoP gets Timeless Isle or Isle of Thunder.
WoD gets a daily apexis event for a big chunk of badges, or tanaan stuff. Could also make garrison invasions rewarding during this time.
Legion gets Broken Shore or Argus. Also Legion invasions come back for this.
BFA gets Nazjatar.
Shadowlands gets Zereth Mortis.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Mildly off-topic, but I've been working on rewriting the totality of Battle for Azeroth & Shadowlands, and while I was at it, I redesigned the Jailer based on old concept art. Does this look better than what we got or not?

[Chickat]

Cata was new landmasses AND revamped old ones, why would a supposed Cata 2 be any different?

They could just make the continent small to save on time. Like 3 zones. But we go back to old zones a lot during leveling, and Old zones have end game stuff to do too. Maybe All 3 Dragon Isles zones have stuff, but there is a weekly part of the old map that has world quests, rares and invasions.

Like 2-3 zones area of Ek and Kalim. World Quests unlock in N and S barrens as well as Ashenvale one week.
Next week Duskwood, STV and Redridge have dailys. That way its not overwhelming.

[Luck4]

Mildly off-topic, but I've been working on rewriting the totality of Battle for Azeroth & Shadowlands, and while I was at it, I redesigned the Jailer based on old concept art. Does this look better than what we got or not?

I think it does. For me, Zovaal only became a little bit better now that he's wearing full armor.