Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[infinitemeridian]

You're talking like the expansion is all about the questing experience and story. But guess what, that's just a tiny part of it. What about the systems, azerite armor being complete dogshit balance wise , method of aquisition etc. What about warfronts being just pointless and impossible to lose? What about island expeditions being just spammable farming spots for azerite? Incredibly unbalanced corruptions? Corruption vendor with weekly rotations(lmao) ?

Add that all together and the expansion was below mediocre, but hey for you it was a good expansion because you liked 3 quests

I think you greatly underestimate just how important tone and setting is for an open world game.

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Yeah, it should be noted the biggest problem for people in Shadowlands is the story/cosmic feel and lack of Azeroth, NOT anything mechanical.

I think it's the biggest problem, but it's not the only problem. Lack of interesting content, what we have being pretty phoned in, etc. definitely still contributes.

[Dracullus]

It's not like those 24-hour sales mean nothing for MMORPGs anyway. New World sold roughly 850.000 copies within 24 hours and already lost 90% of those players after 3 months. While the record itself is great, it doesn't tell anything about the longevity of Shadowlands at all.

Who said about longevity? I said it's bullshit that SL "game breaking issues" are theme or covenants, cause it was popular on launch, even more than usual (although it would be unfair to say lockdown had nothing to do with it).

Also, which I didn't mention in previous post, forums were pretty chill and quiet first months, I clearly remember people saying that honeymoon is longer than usual. Problem is that we waited 3 months for any news about future, 5 months for PTR and 7 months for new content. In Legion we got patch after 1.5 month... And remember that fast patch not only provides content, but also is reaction for feedback that can fix potential or minor issues that will grow in time (Torghast, no gearing path for casuals after 200). Imagine 7 months of Legion with undertuned EN and before legendary tuning.

You know what theme people hated (not everyone of course, but substantial amount)? MoP on launch and reveal. And numbers clearly show this as well.

Btw, funny that you disregard this number so easily on various occasions as indicator of WoW stability, even if it's official stable number you get every ~two years. Yet when you tried to prove TBC Classic is more popular than SL you used... google trends, and when you claimed FF14 is currently most popular MMO.. wait, did you back it up with anything?

[Lmaop]

Yeah, it should be noted the biggest problem for people in Shadowlands is the story/cosmic feel and lack of Azeroth, NOT anything mechanical.

And to add on to that BFA in contrast WAS build like Legion, most of it systems either extensions or spins on Legion design (i think they even might said this but dont quote me on that, im not sure) .

So its pretty safe to assume that blizzard thought legion was good/well-received and bfa was not, hence the change in Shadowlands.

Which pretty much minmaps with general discussion about those expansions imo.

[EbaumsTipster]

If Blizz confirmed more about the Azeroth plotlines that would be followed up on post-Shadowlands, people would be more forgiving. 2 year filler is a dumb idea. (Lesson to be learned from Shadowlands: people care more about WoW lore and setting than they do WoW characters)

Edit: Looks like they are not interested in community council stuff about retail at the moment, so I'm guessing they have given up on Shadowlands and are waiting on expansion reveal to discuss retial.

[Nokster10]

I think you greatly underestimate just how important tone and setting is for an open world game.

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I think you overestimate how open world wow is. Literally every single piece of relevant content is instanced.

[infinitemeridian]

I think you overestimate how open world wow is. Literally every single piece of relevant content is instanced.

Do you think tone and setting do not extend to instanced content? And sure, maybe only "relevant" content is instanced, but that doesn't change the fact that 99% of the time is spent in either:

-Oribos
-The afterlive zones
-covenant sanctum

[UndedoKoleda]

No, it was evidenced long before Chronicle doubled down on it. Also, it is 100% conclusive. They didn't just draw the four known old gods and then rAnDoMLy decide they were going to add in a 5th unknown one just to fill space. They also wouldn't bother adding in the line in her artifact's history specifically pointing out that one of theories of her origin is being the remnant of a old god for no reason. Or Xal'atath's line where she very clearly indicates that there used to be more than four.

Xal'atath does not speak at all like a minion of the Old Gods. She has zero respect for any of them, to the point of dismissiveness, insults, or even open hostility towards their forces. She frequently uses "us" and "we" in reference to the other Old Gods specifically, not their forces.

Everything about her suggests that she was a 5th old god destroyed at some point by the other four.

About the bolded part- there was an interview with the artist, where he answers questions regarding the artwork of Chronicles and it seems that some pieces are indeed just randomly added.


https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ight=interview

The interview itself:
https://kiraser-eng.blogspot.com/202...author-of.html

Kiraser: There’s this question about one of your Chronicle vol.3 artworks, that still intrigues me to this day. The book opens with the picture of the Old Gods. 4 of them are all known to the players, but the 5th one looks like a Cthulhu of sorts. So my question is, whether it was some sort of a nod to the existence of another big Old God on Azeroth (like, in Battle for Azeroth there are 2 characters that kind of count as such: G'huun and Xal'atath)? Or maybe it was just a Cthulhu-reference?

I understand that if it’s a big plot-twist secret Old God, you can’t reveal it. I'm just curious if the “Cthulhu” was more than a reference.

Joseph: Hey, Tried to find some of my references for this drawing but at the end I think that I made this one up. So no big plot twisted secret, sorry ^_^

He doesn't deny it 100%, maybe he just really forgot. I think that if he was afraid of breaking NDA by answering this, he would have stated so, like he does later in the interview.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

And to add on to that BFA in contrast WAS build like Legion, most of it systems either extensions or spins on Legion design (i think they even might said this but dont quote me on that, im not sure) .

So its pretty safe to assume that blizzard thought legion was good/well-received and bfa was not, hence the change in Shadowlands.

Which pretty much minmaps with general discussion about those expansions imo.

The theme isn't what people are whining about.

You know what theme people hated (not everyone of course, but substantial amount)? MoP on launch and reveal. And numbers clearly show this as well.

Cause people(Those kind anyways) are superficial.

[EbaumsTipster]

Cause people(Those kind anyways) are superficial.

It doesn't matter, those are the customers. People hated Mists theme so they dipped and hated the expansion, even if people today are more friendly towards it. The same thing is happening to Shadowlands.

It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, it's just reality. And it WILL reflect on the next expansion where they are ALREADY trying to plead to the customers that it will be different (see: Ion mentioning Goldshire)

[Lmaop]

Do you think tone and setting do not extend to instanced content? And sure, maybe only "relevant" content is instanced, but that doesn't change the fact that 99% of the time is spent in either:

-Oribos
-The afterlive zones
-covenant sanctum

I agree with nogster here. I think if you would make a chart of mmorpg where themes of open world matters wow come up probally last. Its just not what people buy and play this game nowadays. Does that mean it doesnt matter at all or to nobody? No but themes of an expansion never saved or doomed an expansion in the past. The "pandaland" theme that was paned was one of the most stable xpacs and retroactively one of the most revered meanwhile the "hecking poggers" back to tbc WoD expansion with the Orcs to "back to old warcraft" is a shitstain and the peak of raid or die where the subs tanked so hard they didnt even showed it anymore. Shadowmoon valley could looked like Storm Peaks and nothing would change

This is a game where one of the endgame activities is to farm the same 8 dungeons for 2 years with the same lootable for fucks sake. You guys need to understand that this is the game now. They are better alternatives for people that want enjoy a story or 3d modeled overworld so its logical it matters alot less to people here

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The theme isn't what people are whining about.


Cause people(Those kind anyways) are superficial.

Did you misquote me because nowhere in the post you quoted did i mention theme?

[Makabreska]

It doesn't matter, those are the customers. People hated Mists theme so they dipped and hated the expansion, even if people today are more friendly towards it. The same thing is happening to Shadowlands.

It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, it's just reality. And all it will reflect on is the next expansion where they are ALREADY trying to plead to the customers that it will be different (see: Ion mentioning Goldshire)

I mean, how many people hated it? Vocal minority, who laughed "kung-fu panda lol"? You always have these each expansion. We had people being mad and going "twilight lol" when they saw Cata's Worgens. No sane dev will listen to those, and "going back to Azeroth" comment was not based on them. The exhaustion of grand, cosmic themes is real among players and devs, as it limits the possible future stories. Scaling it down is only natural, especially if SL is the finale of a big story project that spans multiple expansions.

[Dioporco]

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but Kul'tiras and Zandalar were beautiful and varied zones, and really showed off the skill and expertise of the design team. Mechagon was great as well.

Sure everyone can have their opinion but your reply missed the point of mine, you are comparing design team with Dev team.


You can craft the most beautiful present box with golden garnish and a silk ribbon but if inside there is an hot turd, is still a turd.

Design team is always 8/10

[Dracullus]

Cause people(Those kind anyways) are superficial.

Doesn't matter what they are. When Cata, WoD, Legion, BfA, SL sold over 3.3M first 24 hours and MoP 2.8M within first week (same as Wrath, but Wrath was 24 hours), something is going on. I don't see anything but theme that could decrease hype like this.

Btw, TBC sold only 3.53M first MONTH. It fuels theory that old WoW had growing/stable subs without cycles cause there was constant wave of new players, not that it kept people better than current game.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Doesn't matter what they are. When Cata, WoD, Legion, BfA, SL sold over 3.3M first 24 hours and MoP 2.8M within first week (same as Wrath, but Wrath was 24 hours), something is going on. I don't see anything but theme that could decrease hype like this.

Btw, TBC sold only 3.53M first MONTH. It fuels theory that old WoW had growing/stable subs without cycles cause there was constant wave of new players, not that it kept people better than current game.

Exhaustion can also explain it. Remember that back in Ye Olden Times WoW was generally played by people as their one and only game. Logging in several days a week, no major breaks. After the mess that was Cata, the drought that was Dragon Soul, and the lack of meaningful upheavel to the game in MoP I imagine a lot of people just said "this isn't doing it for me" and left.

As for "well why did sales go up again after MoP?" It's simple, tourists. It's the same reason every expansion post-MoP has a huge subscriber dropoff a quarter after launch. People nowadays buy an expansion (so they're counted in the 3.3M in the first 24 hours), play to max level, then quit until the next expansion.

[Dracullus]

As for "well why did sales go up again after MoP?" It's simple, tourists. It's the same reason every expansion post-MoP has a huge subscriber dropoff a quarter after launch. People nowadays buy an expansion (so they're counted in the 3.3M in the first 24 hours), play to max level, then quit until the next expansion.

Considering WoW had 100 milion registered accounts between 2004-2013 and never more than 12 milion subs at same time, tourists were always here. It's not like people were playing all the time before Cata. Also Cata was not Legion, I don't see anything that would cause some massive burnout here.

[Makabreska]

Considering WoW had 100 milion registered accounts between 2004-2013 and never more than 12 milion subs at same time, tourists were always here. It's not like people were playing all the time before Cata. Also Cata was not Legion, I don't see anything that would cause some massive burnout here.

Maybe not burnout, but not being engaged with the setting anymore. WotLK was culmination of Warcraft story for many, and by that time most plots and villains of W3 were dealt with. Cata started the age of creating new lore. Also things like "hard dungeons" experiment didn't help.

[Wonderment2]

If Blizz confirmed more about the Azeroth plotlines that would be followed up on post-Shadowlands, people would be more forgiving. 2 year filler is a dumb idea. (Lesson to be learned from Shadowlands: people care more about WoW lore and setting than they do WoW characters)

Edit: Looks like they are not interested in community council stuff about retail at the moment, so I'm guessing they have given up on Shadowlands and are waiting on expansion reveal to discuss retial.

That's a point, clearly whether Andiun lives or dies isn't enough of a plot hook to get people to care. Or well the people who come on here at the very least.

I do largely think people don't overly care about wow characters is Blizzards fault. There's an aggressive amount of characters to keep track off and only a handful of them are even seen that often. Nazgrim was a pretty good example of how to do it right since he was in basically every zone so you got invested.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Maybe not burnout, but not being engaged with the setting anymore. WotLK was culmination of Warcraft story for many, and by that time most plots and villains of W3 were dealt with. Cata started the age of creating new lore. Also things like "hard dungeons" experiment didn't help.

Honestly I don't buy that, I think people care about the setting. The theme is not really the problem. the cosmic thread might be hated here but I don't believe overall thats an issue.

I do largely think people don't overly care about wow characters is Blizzards fault.

@_@ Considering how some people react to things, I'm not gonna blame Blizzard for this.

[TheFirstOnes]

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but Kul'tiras and Zandalar were beautiful and varied zones, and really showed off the skill and expertise of the design team. Mechagon was great as well.

WoD also has beautiful zones…

Art and Music don’t make a good game.

[Wonderment2]

@_@ Considering how some people react to things, I'm not gonna blame Blizzard for this.

I did expand my reasons in an edit. I haven't played ff14 but I know, like GW2, they have like a guild who act as a main cast that people seem to like. Wow never really let's you hang around with the Same characters very often, Nazgrim being the exception and I grew attached to him in MoP. Its started doing it more recently with Thrall and Jiana etc but I'm not a fan of any of them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯