Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Boricha]

Thinking about Tazavesh recently made me think I'd like to see an expansion that fleshes out the stories of the Ethereal cartels, and maybe the goblin ones as well. They showed us in SL that there seems to be a lot going on with them, but didn't really give us a story for them.

[Revamp Man]

Alleria Windrunner is the most powerful mortal leader at the moment. With a single touch, she could bring doom upon an entire civilization (Quel'Thalas). Don't even think for a moment that she would be one of those dungeon bosses who would be taken care of in 5 minutes. If she were to go rogue, seeking to usher in a new era of the Void, then it is likely that the entire world could very well be destroyed. Which could work as a sort of "tie-in" to a hypothetical WOW 2.0 or WOW: Realm Reborn expansion.

Turalyon is not villain material, he is too weak. In the Visions of N'Zoth, it is shown that Alleria and the Ren'dorei brought the Alliance to its knees and left Turalyon a broken and dying man in front of the steps of the cathedral.

Turalyon is cattle and the Ren'dorei are the hunters, he is not villain material. He is not chad enough.

And, by the way, Alleria would never become a villain. Do you want to know why? Because she's one of the two only major Ren'dorei characters. If she became a villain, only Magister Umbric would be left. No other race has ever been in this situation where they'd only have one major lore character.

Alleria is definitely not a 5 man boss
She’s a scenario boss that took about 3 minutes




I’m ready for dragons and magic instead of “here’s super devil’s plan that was planned around our plan that we planned around mega devil’s plan”

We have some story about the elemental lords from the BfA expeditions and we even saw the expedition storylines become a thing in 8.3 with the klaxxi

Idk about old gods but we definitely have enough for dragons to stand on their own and not need cosmic garbage included

[Cosmic Janitor]

One day people will figure out how to think for themselves instead of worrying about what a youtuber says.

Or one day you and your ilk will realize that people just use known people as examples, since they represent a widely known level of reference. If even the stallward defenders and rabid fanatic fans have enough then maybe, just maybe, not everything is as peachy as it seems to you.

[Lahis]

And yet so many times I saw people here claiming SL plot is "convoluted".

The plot is convoluted and requires Jailer to be pulling strings behind every event that has ever happened in Warcraft, but Jailer itself is written like moustache twirling cartoon villain with half a sentence worth of personality.

[Makabreska]

The plot is convoluted and requires Jailer to be pulling strings behind every event that has ever happened in Warcraft, but Jailer itself is written like moustache twirling cartoon villain with half a sentence worth of personality.

Eh, no. "One guy behind everything" is really not complicated.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The plot is convoluted and requires Jailer to be pulling strings behind every event that has ever happened in Warcraft, but Jailer itself is written like moustache twirling cartoon villain with half a sentence worth of personality.

That's usually not what convoluted means, even if the word origin might actually fit here. The jailer's plot is just unbelievable/inconceivable, a last minute ass-pull from the writers and boderline retcon (more of a piss-poor "recon"). I think the point to take home here is more that the average joe is not exactly well versed in literary analysis its terminology, but every schmock can realize that something is off about the character and his story. Even if they don't use the correct terminology here.

[Varodoc]

Alleria is definitely not a 5 man boss
She’s a scenario boss that took about 3 minutes




I’m ready for dragons and magic instead of “here’s super devil’s plan that was planned around our plan that we planned around mega devil’s plan”

We have some story about the elemental lords from the BfA expeditions and we even saw the expedition storylines become a thing in 8.3 with the klaxxi

Idk about old gods but we definitely have enough for dragons to stand on their own and not need cosmic garbage included

That's just because the Visions of N'Zoth were explicitly designed to serve as Solo content and served as the clear basis for Torghast.

Thrall was also a scenario boss according to you, despite the fact that when he was Warchief he needed a whole raid to be killed.

Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers, that already solidifies her place as one of the strongest mortals on Azeroth.

If we want to get into details, Alleria absorbed the Dark Naaru L'ura, who was already the final boss of a dungeon. Since she absorbed it and added her strength to her own, she breached into Raid threshold.

Of course this is all pointless speculation since Alleria will never go rogue

[Teriz]

That's just because the Visions of N'Zoth were explicitly designed to serve as Solo content and served as the clear basis for Torghast.

Thrall was also a scenario boss according to you, despite the fact that when he was Warchief he needed a whole raid to be killed.

Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers, that already solidifies her place as one of the strongest mortals on Azeroth.

If we want to get into details, Alleria absorbed the Dark Naaru L'ura, who was already the final boss of a dungeon. Since she absorbed it and added her strength to her own, she breached into Raid threshold.

Of course this is all pointless speculation since Alleria will never go rogue

Well that, and I'm not sure that the WoW userbase really wants another expansion where the main antagonist is another Windrunner sister "corrupted" by shadow magic.

[TheFirstOnes]

Ummm no he isn't. They're connected but they aren't the same character.

Not my damn point. Wrath Arthas and Zovaal are generic ass evil mf's, difference us that unlike Zovaal, the entirety of Arthas' story was set up in WC3...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hardly. An insane dragon hell-bent on destroying Azeroth, just because Old Gods told him too. Zero relatability, zero redeeming qualities and probably the weakest villain in that regard. Sarg wanted to stop Void Lords, Arthas had good intentions at start, Garrosh wanted to uplift Orcs and the likes of Gul'dan/KT simply craved power. Meanwhile Derpwing wanted to wreck a planet cuz told to do so and then immediately commit sudoku. He was impressive in size and destructive force, but little else.

He doesn't have to be relatable. Thats the thing villains don't always need to be relatable.

[Lmaop]

He doesn't have to be relatable. Thats the thing villains don't always need to be relatable.

Yes a villain needs to be not good written character either, whats your point?

[huth]

He doesn't have to be relatable. Thats the thing villains don't always need to be relatable.

Not relatable, but understandable generally helps. Even if you would never agree with them, at least being able to understand how they arrived at their conclusions is usually a good thing.

Deathwing was to much just "grah, me destroy" without any rhyme or reason. Wouldn't even make sense as N'zoth's plan, since N'zoth wouldn't have had much interest in dying at that time.

[Black Rider]

Thinking about Tazavesh recently made me think I'd like to see an expansion that fleshes out the stories of the Ethereal cartels, and maybe the goblin ones as well. They showed us in SL that there seems to be a lot going on with them, but didn't really give us a story for them.

Would be cool, totally unexplored setting and area. Also over the course of previous xpacs Ethereals mentioned other worlds several times.

[bagina]

All a villain needs is to be a fucking person. Jailer is a fucking non-entity, he might as well be an automaton because he displayed practically zero traits that thinking beings should display. He has no personality, he had no conversations with anyone (monologuing to someone is not a conversation), he hadn't expressed his opinion about anything or anyone.

Anyway, those raid titles are funny: "Guardian of the Pattern". Might as well be "Guardian of the status quo" with how pathetic that sounds. I still hate that Shadowlands will continue to exist and won't be destroyed.

[Foolicious]

I’m ready for dragons and magic instead of “here’s super devil’s plan that was planned around our plan that we planned around mega devil’s plan”

"When the titans created the dragon aspects they told them one day when the time has come they have to sacrifice their own immortality and one of their kind to set in motion the events to stop the ancient evil banished in the maw to strengthen the heroes of azeroth for the danger that threatens to consume death and life alike"
- Blizzard probably

Deathwing was to much just "grah, me destroy" without any rhyme or reason. Wouldn't even make sense as N'zoth's plan, since N'zoth wouldn't have had much interest in dying at that time.

He's insane driven by pain and hatred and controlled by n'zoth, so destroying without rhyme or reason was kind of the point. N'zoth was never in danger. Deathwing even impaled himself after he did his job because he wasn't useful for squidward anymore.
Its not like hes the most interesting villain by any means but he felt like a real character you could understand why he acts the way he does.

[Cosmic Janitor]

N'zoth was never in danger. Deathwing even impaled himself after he did his job because he wasn't useful for squidward anymore.

Endtimes DW is not the same as the one we shot down and which was casting Cataclysm Mk. II at the Maeltstrom. Also what made DW so pathetic was that before cataclysm he was described as mad schemer, not a mindless raging beast.

[UndedoKoleda]

NEW Mythic: The Jailer Defeat The Jailer in the Sepulcher of the First Ones on Mythic difficulty.
Reward: Title Reward: Guardian of the Pattern
NEW Hall of Fame: The Jailer (Alliance) Among the first one hundred Alliance guilds worldwide to defeat The Jailer on Mythic difficulty.
Reward: Title Reward: Famed Bane of Zovaal the Jailer
NEW Hall of Fame: The Jailer (Horde) Among the first one hundred Horde guilds worldwide to defeat The Jailer on Mythic difficulty.
Reward: Title Reward: Famed Bane of Zovaal the Jailer


Lets put aside how lackluster these title are, the "Famed Bane of Zovaal the Jailer" indicates that the Jailer is going to survive the encounter, doesn't it? They used the same wording for Sylvanas in 9.1, if Zovaal was to die, surely they would have used "Famed Slayer of Zovaal the Jailer".

[Varodoc]

Endtimes DW is not the same as the one we shot down and which was casting Cataclysm Mk. II at the Maeltstrom. Also what made DW so pathetic was that before cataclysm he was described as mad schemer, not a mindless raging beast.

Deathwing was still a schemer in Cataclysm.

He is the one who actually recruited Ragnaros and Al'Akir into N'Zoth's side (so he remained somewhat of a "diplomat", because he gained the allegiance of these two mighty Elemental Lords) and also schemed to put his puppet Arygos in command of the Blue Dragonflight after Malygos died, gaining the allegiance of that flight.

He also decided to spare Stormwind instead of just destroying the city because he knew that a city full of cultists would be more beneficial than a wasteland. It is explicitly noted how Deathwing could have destroyed the entire city, yet didn't, which puzzled the civilians. It was revealed that this was so his puppet, Archbishop Benedictus, who was secretly a cultist, could recruit more people into the Twilight's Hammer (people would lose hope after seeing how powerful Deathwing is).

So really people here are not understanding what actually happened in Cataclysm, to claim that Deathwing was just a mindless beast. He schemed and plotted a lot, it's just that in the end he was a mere pawn of N'Zoth.

"Madness of Deathwing", the final encounter, is when Deathwing actually loses the last of his sanity, and it's understandable why this would happen. His body was blasted apart and he was almost slain. The only thing keeping him together was N'Zoth's power, N'Zoth being desperate to keep his minion alive or the Cataclysm ends. So at that point Deathwing was pretty much just a mindless puppet animated by N'Zoth's power.

The only reason why Deathwing looked more intelligent and manipulative back in WC2 is because N'Zoth was not revealed yet at that point in time (maybe Blizzard didn't even flesh-out the concept of "Old Gods" at the time). So Deathwing looked smarter because he didn't have a master.

[Kiivar86]

Lets put aside how lackluster these title are, the "Famed Bane of Zovaal the Jailer" indicates that the Jailer is going to survive the encounter, doesn't it? They used the same wording for Sylvanas in 9.1, if Zovaal was to die, surely they would have used "Famed Slayer of Zovaal the Jailer".

As I recall in one of the first builds there was dialogue between the Primus and Bolvar that was datamined where they talk about how Zovaal was destroyed.

[Raetary]

Wow.
I don't think they could've come up with a worse title even if they tried.


And no, it's just another unoriginal play on the 'Bane of the Fallen King' title.