Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

Because apparently this needs to be explained.

Alleria CHOOSES whether she's going to use her normal fair form or her Void form.

The Shadow Priest CAN'T choose that, literally just play one (since nothing can be taken for granted here, Shadow form =/= Void form btw).

Those here who disagree with me disagree with Canon. I won't repeat myself.

The player chooses to enter both Shadow AND Void form. What are you even arguing here? Also, a random fucking advertisement blurb on the site is not the arbitrator of canon.

[Raetary]

Oh great, another round of Alleria circlejerk.
As if we haven't had enough of those.

Can we go back to discussing what constitutes a machine? That was a significantly less annoying topic.

[Hitei]

Oh great, another round of Alleria circlejerk.
As if we haven't had enough of those.

Can we go back to discussing what constitutes a machine? That was a significantly less annoying topic.

I would like to know why you think a mechanical array counts as a machine, and an electrical array counts as a machine, but for some reason a magical array does not.

[Varodoc]

The player chooses to enter both Shadow AND Void form. What are you even arguing here? Also, a random fucking advertisement blurb on the site is not the arbitrator of canon.

False.

Everything that is written in the Official website is Official and thus part of the Official Canon.

And you don't really "choose" whether to enter Void form or not, unless you don't know how to play the spec or are griefing your group.

[Makabreska]

I would like to know why you think a mechanical array counts as a machine, and an electrical array counts as a machine, but for some reason a magical array does not.

Y'all need 10.0 leaks.

- - - Updated - - -

And you don't really "choose" whether to enter Void form or not, unless you don't know how to play the spec or are griefing your group.

Yes you do pal. As of 9.0 Void Form is a CD.

[Hitei]

And you don't really "choose" whether to enter Void form or not, unless you don't know how to play the spec or are griefing your group.

This is just about the stupidest logic I've ever read.

So according to you, canonically, every player shaman in the game is being mind controlled by the elements and is forced to use totems, because non-retarded players use their totems to maximize DPS and utility? Every guardian druid is insane and HAS to be in bear form, because playing the spec involves being in bear form and you'd just be griefing your group to pull in caster? Canonically, to you, all Demon Hunters absolutely must shoot lasers out of their eyes every 30 seconds, they do not choose to.

Stop. This is embarrassing to even read.

[Ersula]

It is Canonically stated that Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers. What this means is that, Canonically, ALL those who wielded the Void before her, did not successfully defy it.

Yeah yeah yeah she defied them in 7.3 then failed to defy them in 7.3.5. Clearly its not a one-and-done sort of thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Everything that is written in the Official website is Official and thus part of the Official Canon.

As long as we ignore everytime they revised the official website, or the devs reconned something.

- - - Updated - - -

So based on what we see in Zareth Mortis, is everything originally machine in origin & it's the old-gods's curse that made all flesh? Wouldn't that imply the Old Gods are the only reason free-will exists in this universe??

[Makorus]

Because apparently this needs to be explained here.

Alleria CHOOSES whether she's going to use her normal fair form or her Void form.

The Shadow Priest CAN'T choose that, literally just play one (since nothing can be taken for granted here, Shadow form =/= Void form btw).

Those here who disagree with me disagree with Canon. I won't repeat myself.

I like how you don't go into my point about Alleria did not defy or even shows any kind of mastery when she almost destroyed Silvermoon. Didn't do a good job defying it back then, huh?

She is literally called a Vessel in the same quest. She thinks she is in control but everything that happens proves that she is not.

[Ersula]

She is literally called a Vessel in the same quest. She thinks she is in control but everything that happens proves that she is not.

It's fitting her stans are in as much denial as she is. Look on the bright side, when she goes genocidal she has a slightly-more credible argument that it wasn't her fault than Sylvanas is getting.

[Hitei]

So based on what we see in Zareth Mortis, is everything originally machine in origin & it's the old-gods's curse that made all flesh? Wouldn't that imply the Old Gods are the only reason free-will exists in this universe??

That has sort of always been the implication when it comes to ordered worlds. The titans just make slave-constructs and then the curse of flesh turns them into real people with individual desires who no longer listen to the hierarchy.

[Sondrelk]

It's fitting her stans are in as much denial as she is. Look on the bright side, when she goes genocidal she has a slightly-more credible argument that it wasn't her fault than Sylvanas is getting.

I mean, even she is more Cognizant that she is one slipup away from losing control, so even she is more aware of her shortcomings than her diehard fans.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I like how people are getting into the topic of Free Will and Determinism. But completely missing the whole point of the whole Free Will / Determinism is why the Warcraft Universe isn't perfect.

Which faction of the Universe is the only one that produce non Free Willed beings? The Pantheon of Orders' minions. We could explore this more deepy if people want, obviously there are some other forces that seem to be questionable like the Swarm like Primal version of Life do they have Free Will or are they just parasitically expanding until they end up murdered by evolution of other species which are a byproduct of Life and has free will?

Every other faction leads to free will beings and the most important and biggest clue to this whole thing is the Old Gods of Azeroth and Yogg-Sarons' epithet of being the God of Death when obviously he is not and obviously he was birthed from the Void and they see Death as the ultimate enemy. Which also hinted at the whole Death -> Azeroth thingiemajig upon his demise.

I don't think everything is Machines or Code. I do think that the reason for why the Universe is fucked has very much to do with the Territory Fighting which seemingly stems from Free Will being imposed on everything and again the only reason this happened is most likely some Bigger God/Creator doing the Prometheus thing out of the goodness of their heart. But, it fucked up the entire universe and threw it into chaos mode.

Unless, we go with the whole Simulation Theory and the Discord / Chaos (Whatever fucked the Universe up) was intentional for the Simulation. But again, derp.

Even then, I don't know maybe the Free Will is just a red herring. There is probably Titanforged that goes against their programming and then you can ask if the malfunction is the Free Will bug in the matrix. But, again.

[Varodoc]

Yeah yeah yeah she defied them in 7.3 then failed to defy them in 7.3.5. Clearly its not a one-and-done sort of thing.

- - - Updated - - -

As long as we ignore everytime they revised the official website, or the devs reconned something.

- - - Updated - - -

So based on what we see in Zareth Mortis, is everything originally machine in origin & it's the old-gods's curse that made all flesh? Wouldn't that imply the Old Gods are the only reason free-will exists in this universe??

The Official website and all that is written in it is Canon.

So Canonically Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers, as reported by Blizzard on their Official website.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

As always Old Gods are not the only source of Free Will in the universe. Primal Life aka Life can lead to evolution of species that have free will as seen with Draenor.

[Civciv]

"successfully"...... About that honey

[Varodoc]

"successfully"...... About that honey

Neltharion with just A WHISPER from N'Zoth turned into a complete monster of destruction.

Garrosh with a marginally moderate amount of Void energy was batshit insane and thought it was his destiny to rule Azeroth.

Ner'zhul with an unknown but likely small amount of Void energy was crazy and tried to commit genocide on an entire people.

Alleria with a massive amount of Void energy, coming from the essence of a Void Naaru that literally blasted and entered her body and merged with her, remains loyal to the Alliance, works to protect the Alliance citizens, and gave food and blankets to a bunch of refugees.

It is stated by N'Zoth that "a whisper" was all he needed to corrupt Neltharion; meanwhile Alleria and the Ren'dorei hear COUNTLESS whispers all day long FROM THE VOID LORDS (N'Zoth's superiors), yet they remain good and loyal to the Alliance.

I'd say it's obvious who defied the whispers and who succumbed to them here, even if Blizzard didn't already confirm that (as if it needed any confirming ).

[Makorus]

OK but what happened at the Sunwell again?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

OK but what happened at the Sunwell again?

I mean again, the reason for that event was due to Azerite a byproduct of that thing THAT EVERY FORCE IN THE UNIVERSE WANTS. (AZEROTH) Because, again the Vials stolen from the Well of Eternity which as it has been retconned in the Chronicles was the Lifeblood of Azeroth which as we've established with BFA is extremely powerful and can do miracle level shit.

Obviously if there was other ways to restore Naaru from Void Naaru then Light would Dominate the Cycle for all eternity.

The same goes for why Alleria did what she did, it's not like the Void needs to take control to get what they want out of that event. Which I mean they just randomly popped up so again.. Also her dialogue literally makes it pretty obvious she didn't know what would happen when she interacted with the well.

Once she interacted with the Sunwell the portal opened and the Void invasion occured which again is due to the whole Azerite thing again. (Cause there's no other explaination and the void knows everything anyways.)

Again if we now understand why the M'uru purification sequence and the Void Invasion at the Sunwell, it is just again a smaller scale example of the cosmic war for Azeroth and her powers.

Fundamentally, I just think there's a lot of nuance to the whole Void Mind Control and Void Suggestion that lead to events. Either way, Alleria is a good walking pawn and we've already seen that established with what transpired at the Sunwell.

[huth]

No.

A Machine is a mechanical construct, consisting of a multitude of mechanical and/or electrical components that interact with one another.

Wrong. A machine is a physical system with ordered structural and functional properties. Mechanical is not part of the definition, nor is electrical. They use power to apply forces and movement.

In fact, a computer is not a machine. The clock is at least questionable, since some clocks did get used to drive other systems. The animated doll or rock however would be, the power in question would just be magical. They're essentially golems. A lever is also a machine, just an extremely simple one.

Yep, and all because I dared to express myself inaccurate (which I already admitted a page earlier). On the other hand I think everyone with half a braincell must have understood what I was trying to say.
Doesn't matter, the titans were made by the First Ones...be it from robots, arcane energy or whatever. They are constructs...like they made constructs...and then those made vrykul and earthen.

Actually, you expressed yourself perfectly accurately. Though we don't know yet if the First Ones had anything to do with the Titans. It seems rather likely, but there's no conclusive evidence.

[Ersula]

I can almost guarantee the Light vs Void expansion is gonna come down to Alleria being balanced between the two because of her proximity to so much Light and the end will be "There must be balance between the two!"

Well either that or she goes batshit after we do Siege of Stormwind to take out Light Fascist Turalyon and then who even knows.

That's why I don't think it's going to be Light vs Void. Turalyon & Alleria wouldn't fight each other. But a Light + Void expansion where either we have to fight them simultaneously or they actually team up against us, seems more likely, especially when it's now clear they're a bigger threat to us mortals than they are to each other.

And when it comes to "balance" I think that's Calia's purpose. Seems if they do a Evil Light expansion, either Turalyon because of his wife, or Calia will be the light based person who struggles but ultimately stands against the light. And to this day Calia basically has no purpose. No one likes her.

- - - Updated - - -

Which faction of the Universe is the only one that produce non Free Willed beings? The Pantheon of Orders' minions. We could explore this more deepy if people want, obviously there are some other forces that seem to be questionable like the Swarm like Primal version of Life do they have Free Will or are they just parasitically expanding until they end up murdered by evolution of other species which are a byproduct of Life and has free will?

Why do the Titans get credit for that? They didn't make the curse of flesh. They didn't make Trolls. They didn't make Tauren.

- - - Updated - - -

Garrosh with a marginally moderate amount of Void energy was batshit insane and thought it was his destiny to rule Azeroth.

Garrosh was doing that before he did anything with the void. You're so off base here, but so is the official website. We can also point out the logic, if Alleria is so special to resist the whispers, she also gets a ton of other elves to embrace the void. Either Alleria somehow knew all high elves were able to resist the void, (no) or this is clearly an invasion of the body snatchers situation & void lord alleria showed up to the party with brain slugs for everyone.

She's doing the void's will.