1. #18141
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokubas View Post
    If we get cross-faction play I hope it isn't just limited to raids, as they've sort of implied recently.

    The story has been leaning toward cross-faction play fairly hard since the end of Battle for Azeroth and Saurfang's speech about breaking the cycle, but the story has been capable of cross-faction since launch. The whole point of Warcraft III was to move the evil of the Orcish Horde into the Burning Legion, leaving the Horde as good guys alongside the Alliance and new Night Elven faction. Also, basically every expansion at some point has culminated in the factions working together, and the most heroic characters have tended to be effectively neutral for their relevant plot or outright neutral all along. It's even been a theme before, like in Mists of Pandaria, which had an epilogue that basically said we have learned our lesson now and shouldn't have any more wars.

    PvP is the only place where a complete lack of cross-faction options has made sense (and even then, hard-coded teams is a bad thing for PvP balance which is why Mercenary Mode happened).

    The main reason to feel this time is different is the way Ion and co. have been talking about it, but in game the story's been ready for it for a long time.

    Edit:

    Beat me to it. ;P
    Well, cross faction PvP already exists.
    And if raids are cross-faction, then I don't see a reason why other PvE content cannot be. Purely technical speaking it would be more difficult to restrict cross faction play to raids only.

  2. #18142
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokubas View Post
    If we get cross-faction play I hope it isn't just limited to raids, as they've sort of implied recently.

    The story has been leaning toward cross-faction play fairly hard since the end of Battle for Azeroth and Saurfang's speech about breaking the cycle, but the story has been capable of cross-faction since launch. The whole point of Warcraft III was to move the evil of the Orcish Horde into the Burning Legion, leaving the Horde as good guys alongside the Alliance and new Night Elven faction. Also, basically every expansion at some point has culminated in the factions working together, and the most heroic characters have tended to be effectively neutral for their relevant plot or outright neutral all along. It's even been a theme before, like in Mists of Pandaria, which had an epilogue that basically said we have learned our lesson now and shouldn't have any more wars.

    PvP is the only place where a complete lack of cross-faction options has made sense (and even then, hard-coded teams is a bad thing for PvP balance which is why Mercenary Mode happened).

    The main reason to feel this time is different is the way Ion and co. have been talking about it, but in game the story's been ready for it for a long time.
    I think its something that's only going to be enabled for certain areas. Instances and probably the new zones in the next expansion.

    That would be the easiest way to add it without having to worry about retrofitting old content. What will be interesting is to see how they handle guilds which will need a major overhaul regardless of how co-faction grouping pans out.

  3. #18143
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Most likely April-ish.

    Blizzard is nothing if not predictable, which is great because Square Enix is nothing but predictable.

    We will be getting something around the start of April, either 9.2 (heaven forbid) or 10.0 reveal.
    Wel we will get 9.2 late February or whenever the time matches up with end of season

    Then we have a week before the raid and a week before mythic which also unlocks the final three bosses
    Two weeks for RWF
    Livestream the following Thursday

  4. #18144
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I think its something that's only going to be enabled for certain areas. Instances and probably the new zones in the next expansion.

    That would be the easiest way to add it without having to worry about retrofitting old content. What will be interesting is to see how they handle guilds which will need a major overhaul regardless of how co-faction grouping pans out.
    Easy way to do it will be to make new EK/Kalimdors cross faction, and then all new areas after that. Move BFA and SL to timewalking.

    Timewalking will ban it unless they do a merc mode for timewalking coop.

  5. #18145
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    So, after mulling over this a bit, I think that WoW honestly does not need a new class at this point, or ever really, but could clearly use something that freshens up the current class gameplay. However, I don't think something like an additional specialization for each class is feasible either.
    Mechanically I agree, but flavor-wise there are so many untapped ideas. It's why I'm rooting for some sort of "class skin" system, where we can get the flavor of a new class without disrupting anything about the current balance.

    I still really want Spellbreaker or some sort of spellsword class (we have magic/melee classes, but they're heavily themed). I still feel Necromancer has a place in this game. Death Knights not only have too much of their own flavor and very specific history, but the heavily armored mounted warrior is a very different theme than Necromancer, but Necromancers are still a widespread concept in Warcraft. I think others are right in that it would be hard to justify Dark Rangers from now on, but it's still a fairly popular concept that I think is only fair to them to be handled in some way. We also have a notable lack of things like a Light-themed DPS spec for Priest, or an actual nature (instead of astral) themed caster spec for Druids.

    A lot of these could be handled through some sort of reflavoring and I'm fine with that. Necromancer could perhaps be a Warlock skin. A pet spec (Demonology) and debuff spec (Affliction) are good fits for Necromancer, they just need the flavor changed. I think Dark Ranger might even be best as just a reskin of a Hunter spec, since it is a fairly narrow theme, but it's still distinct (although it would be best with Demon Hunter-style class-specific customizations). A Light-themed DPS spec should be fairly easy to make as just a reskin of Shadow.

    Those are things that 100% would get me excited about a new expansion, even in that form.
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2022-01-16 at 08:02 PM.

  6. #18146
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    The reason why i think its not going to be the Dragon Isles EXPANSION is that there are already way too many built up plot lines, related to Light/Void confrontation.
    And even if Yrel's Light Crusade can wait for whatever more years, Turalyon and Alleria Alliance plot, as well as Scarlet Crusade new movement, demand the immediate continuation starting with 10.0 pre-patch.
    Of course Blizzard may tie them to distant Dragon Isles, but how much more fitting it would be for Light (Void) expansion, especially if they pair it with Yrel's invasion?

    Also i remember Blizzard adressing the complaints about Horde being the focal point for many expansions, promising Alliance to take some more focus in the future. The whole Light Is Bad theme fits the Allaince focus narrative perfectly.

    Dragon Isles may be part of 10.0, but they would not be the main theme of expansion, in Emerald Dream/Legion fashion. Like, 10.0 would be Dragon Isles, with Yrel Army taking them hostage and us freeing it, and then 10.1/2/3 would be full blown Light (vs Void) expansion where we take on Yrel herself, Garrosh, various Naaru etc.

  7. #18147
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    The reason why i think its not going to be the Dragon Isles EXPANSION is that there are already way too many built up plot lines, related to Light/Void confrontation.
    And even if Yrel's Light Crusade can wait for whatever more years, Turalyon and Alleria Alliance plot, as well as Scarlet Crusade new movement, demand the immediate continuation starting with 10.0 pre-patch.
    Of course Blizzard may tie them to distant Dragon Isles, but how much more fitting it would be for Light (Void) expansion, especially if they pair it with Yrel's invasion?

    Also i remember Blizzard adressing the complaints about Horde being the focal point for many expansions, promising Alliance to take some more focus in the future. The whole Light Is Bad theme fits the Allaince focus narrative perfectly.

    Dragon Isles may be part of 10.0, but they would not be the main theme of expansion, in Emerald Dream/Legion fashion. Like, 10.0 would be Dragon Isles, with Yrel Army taking them hostage and us freeing it, and then 10.1/2/3 would be full blown Light (vs Void) expansion where we take on Yrel herself, Garrosh, various Naaru etc.
    If there's any alliance focus, no Blue Horde(Trying to make the Alliance look bad). As for the Light and Void, I don't think thats going to be relevant at least based on the hints we've seen in 9.2. Turalyon being on the throne though is definitely suspect though as I said all the way the start of SL, they are prepping Turalyon for something.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2022-01-16 at 08:00 PM.
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  8. #18148
    Quote Originally Posted by Wharren View Post
    Right, that’s the primary reason, but they didn’t have to alter the setting and story so hard, implying it will be more than just a gameplay feature and may be around forever/the new status quo.
    They don't have to change the story at all. There was never a lore reason for the split to begin with, and NPCs have been able to ignore the faction barriers since 1.0.

  9. #18149
    IMHO reveal will be sooner than April, April is too WTF

  10. #18150
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    The reason why i think its not going to be the Dragon Isles EXPANSION is that there are already way too many built up plot lines, related to Light/Void confrontation.
    And even if Yrel's Light Crusade can wait for whatever more years, Turalyon and Alleria Alliance plot, as well as Scarlet Crusade new movement, demand the immediate continuation starting with 10.0 pre-patch.
    Of course Blizzard may tie them to distant Dragon Isles, but how much more fitting it would be for Light (Void) expansion, especially if they pair it with Yrel's invasion?

    Also i remember Blizzard adressing the complaints about Horde being the focal point for many expansions, promising Alliance to take some more focus in the future. The whole Light Is Bad theme fits the Allaince focus narrative perfectly.

    Dragon Isles may be part of 10.0, but they would not be the main theme of expansion, in Emerald Dream/Legion fashion. Like, 10.0 would be Dragon Isles, with Yrel Army taking them hostage and us freeing it, and then 10.1/2/3 would be full blown Light (vs Void) expansion where we take on Yrel herself, Garrosh, various Naaru etc.
    Thought this too, but tbh I would NOT be against a revamp akin to Cata + Dragon Isles with a build up to a grander Cosmic story. This arc kinda ends the Death plotline, but not so much Life or the other parts of the Cosmic Pattern, and we were JUST introduced to a power that designed these forces, and architected the pattern, the laws, the realms, rules, concepts, and fabric of existence, while their workshops bring about the realms, and their workshops caretakers build protoforms of the design and keep the pattern and the song of existence together

  11. #18151
    I feel like the expansion reveal is gonna happen the week of/after the last LFR wing opens. Just makes the most sense, because at that point, everyone will have seen the whole story.

    So depending on when the patch gets released, end of March, early April.

  12. #18152
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    IMHO reveal will be sooner than April, April is too WTF
    Sylvanas book comes out March 29th tho.

  13. #18153
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    If there are enough players that will buy your shit and like it, then it can be best to make the cheapest shit you can.
    If that game was great, it would create a continous stream of income rather than just the initial expac sales. So it is still illogical to create shit if you can create a fun game with the same effort.

    And really, it takes not much more effort to focus on the main systems rather than implementing new trash ones. I am sure it took a massive amount of effort to implement the covenants. Which, in the end, are just other time gated borrowed power systems. Rather than time gates, effort could be the solution. As like repuation farming up to cataclysm. Reputations were, what all those new broken systems replaced, but without those awkward time gates these new horrible systems have nowadays. Blizzard wants people to play longer? Invest more effort into patches to let them return. Invest your time into core components. Create new questing regions, dungeons, raids, battlegrounds and arenas instead of "renown system #322"

    Also, it is not really way more effort to create parallel progression pathes for every playstyle rather than forcing everyone into all components. People who quest often do not raid. People who raid often do not want to play dungeons. People who play dungeons often do not raid as well. Player agency would be if every seperate progression path had its separate character progression. And really, it would only mean different stat distributions and bonuses, yet the same amount of items.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-01-16 at 09:48 PM.

  14. #18154
    Was the Deluxe Edition added in a recent hotfix or was that In Game since 9.1.5 ? Because I could easily see the announcement in the end of January / early days of Febuary. If it was meant to be revealed after 9.2, they would have not added it in the 9.1.5 data.

  15. #18155
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Ok so the guy you believe is only making the game for raiders and m+ has been responsible for
    Benthic gear being better than mythic
    Worst raid balance and scaling
    The removal of master loot
    The ilvl trade lock
    The m+ score upgrade system
    Covenants
    No he actually is responsible for all of that, but in which way was gear acquisition in BFA more fun than nowadays in open world content? Actually, BFA had way better rewards for normal players than nowadays, but the fun was as lacking as it is now.

    Even if you complain about certain implementations, you at least still have an ongoing character progression in raids and compelling gameplay. The problem is you find none of that outside of raids or mythic+ in pve. Other than those two pve gameplay is dull, not engaging and just not fun.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-01-16 at 09:49 PM.

  16. #18156
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    If that game was great, it would create a continous stream of income rather than just the initial expac sales. So it is still illogical to create shit if you can create a fun game with the same effort.
    Oh ye? Go check what EA is doing, making same crappy sport games for cheap year after year and still raking huge profit due to MT's.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-01-16 at 09:45 PM.
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  17. #18157
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Imo, we'll get the patch early feb (seeing how the ptr is going, i don't see why it would be any later) and we get the reveal roughly a month later.



  18. #18158
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Oh ye? Go check what EA is doing, making same crappy sport games for cheap year after year and still raking huge profit due to MT's.
    Now imagine those games would be fun as well. How much more successfull would they be then?

  19. #18159
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    No he actually is responsible for all of that, but in which way was gear acquisition in BFA more fun than nowadays in open world content? Actually, BFA had way better rewards for normal players than nowadays, but the fun was as lacking as it is now.

    Even if you complain about certain implementations, you at least still have an ongoing character progression in raids and compelling gameplay. The problem is you find none of that outside of raids or mythic+ in pve. Other than those two pve gameplay is dull, not engaging and just not fun.
    The problem is you say the guy is designing the game around just raiding and m+ ignoring the fact that the last two expansions have had nothing but negative changes

    If you’re arguing about how open world gear acquisition is so bad let’s keep in mind you can get normal raid level gear doing nothing but WQs and some BiS trinkets are from WQ and you could start a character right now and once you hit 60 you’ll be geared to almost normal raid full set in less than a week

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Now imagine those games would be fun as well. How much more successfull would they be then?
    Not much
    The game has to be just fun enough to keep you playing but not so fun that you won’t pay to get stuff

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Holdodlig View Post
    Was the Deluxe Edition added in a recent hotfix or was that In Game since 9.1.5 ? Because I could easily see the announcement in the end of January / early days of Febuary. If it was meant to be revealed after 9.2, they would have not added it in the 9.1.5 data.
    There was a February event planned that ended up canceled
    It had multiple in person locations and was supposed to be an event stream likely being the reveal

    If I have to guess I’d say they will hold the reveal until after the story hits

  20. #18160
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    The problem is you say the guy is designing the game around just raiding and m+ ignoring the fact that the last two expansions have had nothing but negative changes

    If you’re arguing about how open world gear acquisition is so bad let’s keep in mind you can get normal raid level gear doing nothing but WQs and some BiS trinkets are from WQ and you could start a character right now and once you hit 60 you’ll be geared to almost normal raid full set in less than a week
    And in which way is obtaining all gear within one week character progression? What i mean with character progression is that you have different difficulties in a gameplay component as like mythic+1 to mythic+12 in mythic dungeons and normal up to mythic raids in raiding. In world content, you exactly have one difficulty with content that dull a monkey could play the game. What i am up to is to add fun and engaging gameplay in all gameplay, not just organized group play. As like world quests or questing in general with different difficulties, as like we have in diablo 3 for example. Means, you have the dead stupid version hardcore casuals get, but an additional amount of difficulty levels mythic+ has, even up to that point the highest difficulty of questing could only be done in a group.

    If i talk about engaging content and character progression, i mean a complete path of progression and not full equip within one week.

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