Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

Blizzard isn't gonna drop their iconic logo design for something that looks like 10 minutes of work in photoshop.

[Shadochi]

4chan does have a long history of leaks I suppose. Just such a shame it has an even longer list of fakes.

No reason why this one cannot be real though.

Funny how the text based leaks for Legion and BfA first got posted in this very thread (not sure where the SL images first showed up) lets hope the next one is here as well.
Also remember for the past 3 expansions we haven't had the real leak pop up until the day of blizzcon or weekend before it

[Bloodwolf]

And I fell for it. FFS.

[Shadochi]

And I fell for it. FFS.

If you are referring to the Eye of Azshara, you're welcome

[crusadernero]

Players in Horizon will either want to enjoy the story and take their time, or just beat it and be done quickly. Either way the pace is decided by the player.
In WoW the speed at which you complete things will be decided almost solely on the ones you play with, which combined with timegating means the speed at which you complete it is out of your hands.

Other MMOs are direct competitors with WoW though, even if with that I doubt there are many players who are commited to more than anyone.

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Revamping levelling would in this case be to foster a better 10-50 experience for new players, so it's basically the same amount of impact as Exiles reach has on the new player at the very least.

Secondly, just having levelling in the revamped zones was the mistake Cata made. No reason to assume Blizzard would deliberately make the same mistake if they tried again.

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There are new quests even in Darkshore though, not to mention rares and treasures.
And players want to spend time in zones they enjoy spending time in, and for many that doesnt always mean the newest, most impressive zone.

I am pretty confident there are many players who would rather do dailies and world's quests in Feralas rather than Bastion for instance.

But this becomes a major issue the second a new xpac comes out. With 11.0, 12.0++ EK/K will once again be outdated with quests and how the zones look and feel. They will also be disconnected to whatever the focuspoint is on future xpacs. Just as with cata. It made sense then, it makes no sense now. Leveling 1-50 with Deathwing in focus and suddenly you teleport to shadowlands and fight the jailer.

New players already get funnelled into whatever the previous xpac was. Right now its BFA, when 10.0 is out it will be SL. One would think the newest xpac zones would be deemed best for leveling.

Also - Its worth noting that a 1-50 EK/K revamp leveling experience would only serve new players. New players already get a decent leveling experience with BfA. Take away our jaded glasses(us who plays alot, have experienced it all), and BfA/SL zones aint maybe that bad to level in for new players anyway.

The mistake here would be if Blizzard actually spendt 80% of the time revamping EK/K that would only serve as a updated questing experience. When we fully know most people rush through it.

New players gets a OK experience with BfA-->SL and once they reach max level they can explore every xpacs zones.

[Bloodwolf]

If you are referring to the Eye of Azshara, you're welcome

Yeah, forgot to quote, I just doubled my foolishness...

[Shadochi]

I bet that was just concept art from a bigger void invasion arc that was planned and scrapped for Bastion. We have that one phased area where we fight the void and there are portals all over, I'm pretty positive that's where that came from.

Yes, it is most certainly concept for Shadowlands content that got changed (which isn't uncommon). Wouldn't make sense for it to be something else. Now they still might use a seed of an idea for future but the image shouldn't be considered a leak for 10.0

[Vladier]

If you are referring to the Eye of Azshara, you're welcome

My very own train of thought on seeing your link: "Oh cool, a fake log-in screen, like the Eye of Azshara one... *opens the link* Damnit!"

[Sondrelk]

But this becomes a major issue the second a new xpac comes out. With 11.0, 12.0++ EK/K will once again be outdated with quests and how the zones look and feel. They will also be disconnected to whatever the focuspoint is on future xpacs. Just as with cata. It made sense then, it makes no sense now. Leveling 1-50 with Deathwing in focus and suddenly you teleport to shadowlands and fight the jailer.

New players already get funnelled into whatever the previous xpac was. Right now its BFA, when 10.0 is out it will be SL. One would think the newest xpac zones would be deemed best for leveling.

Also - Its worth noting that a 1-50 EK/K revamp leveling experience would only serve new players. New players already get a decent leveling experience with BfA. Take away our jaded glasses(us who plays alot, have experienced it all), and BfA/SL zones aint maybe that bad to level in for new players anyway.

The mistake here would be if Blizzard actually spendt 80% of the time revamping EK/K that would only serve as a updated questing experience. When we fully know most people rush through it.

New players gets a OK experience with BfA-->SL and once they reach max level they can explore every xpacs zones.

I disagree. The important step for revamped levelling in this case would be to make something that naturally slots in after Exiles Reach in such a way that future expansions can give as little explanation as possible for new players to accept it.
And yes, it could get outdated again, but that will happen no matter what, and at least with this you are guaranteed a baseline level of understanding of the plot.

BfA is a pretty good 10-50 levelling area especially for Alliance, but the entire point of changing levelling in SL was to ensure players have the same understanding of the story going into the 50-60 zones. And it's just by coincidence that it worked out so well with BfA having approachable levelling, SL for instance would be a massive lurch if it became the 10-50 levelling.

And again, revamping zones for 10-50 is just one aspect, the more important aspect would be using it for endgame content, or better still made to such quality that it can continually be reused.


Regardless, if 10-50 levelling in revamped zones is a bust, and instead we use BfA forever then I would still want endgame zones in revamped zones.

[Super Dickmann]

Regardless, if 10-50 levelling in revamped zones is a bust, and instead we use BfA forever then I would still want endgame zones in revamped zones.

I think the next step is to just put new characters in the newest content to level from 10-60, making more of the side quests obligatory, while established players play it from 50 to 60. Even if the premise of Dragon Isles or whatever is based around the damage the Bald Man does to Azeroth, this will not in any way be revealed by playing through the Shadowlands leveling content. The fault of making BFA the introductory content is that while it's all well and good in terms of having the most modern quest design, it's useless in terms of actually involving people in the new plot and if anything causes whiplash since its leveling plot and SL have nothing in common. Cutting out the middle man will need some finagling the numbers, but will be worthwhile.

Then again, that would eliminate the ability to sell level 50 boosts, so who knows.

Ideally, what you'd want but would take more budget is to put, as you mention, leveling from 10 to 50 in an evergreen area who's last part would change depending on what the upcoming expansion is but that'd be considerably more budget-intensive.

[Shadochi]

Ideally, what you'd want but would take more budget is to put, as you mention, leveling from 10 to 50 in an evergreen area who's last part would change depending on what the upcoming expansion is but that'd be considerably more budget-intensive.

That would be ideal but hard to follow. An easier answer would be like Exile's Reach have the story of the zones be independent from major lore events. The reason Cata zones got outdated so fast is that they revolved around the immediate damage of the Cataclysm.

If all zones had their own story, or a story spanning a few zones, not tied to expansion events then it would feel more evergreen and not quickly outdated.

If you think about it even current zones get outdated as soon as a raid/dungeon/quest gets completed but there is no way around it.

[Sondrelk]

I think the next step is to just put new characters in the newest content to level from 10-60, making more of the side quests obligatory, while established players play it from 50 to 60. Even if the premise of Dragon Isles or whatever is based around the damage the Bald Man does to Azeroth, this will not in any way be revealed by playing through the Shadowlands leveling content. The fault of making BFA the introductory content is that while it's all well and good in terms of having the most modern quest design, it's useless in terms of actually involving people in the new plot and if anything causes whiplash since its leveling plot and SL have nothing in common. Cutting out the middle man will need some finagling the numbers, but will be worthwhile.

Then again, that would eliminate the ability to sell level 50 boosts, so who knows.

Ideally, what you'd want but would take more budget is to put, as you mention, leveling from 10 to 50 in an evergreen area who's last part would change depending on what the upcoming expansion is but that'd be considerably more budget-intensive.

The issue I see happening then is that while going 10-60 in the newest expansion is good in theory, (barring the issue of required experience from new players Vs. Level 50 players) I would still argue for something in-game that gives new players a basic understanding of races that informs future plot developments. (Forsaken being freed hivemind zombies, Gnomes being refugees from a nuked city etc.)

Mostly though I think you need to give the player a 10-50 questing area that is more grounded so that once you get to level 50 the zones can expect more from the player in terms of story and quest complexity.
Might be wrong on that last part though, could just be me trying to mentally justify a levelling experience that gives players that good understanding of the basic plot.

[Shadochi]

The issue I see happening then is that while going 10-60 in the newest expansion is good in theory, (barring the issue of required experience from new players Vs. Level 50 players) I would still argue for something in-game that gives new players a basic understanding of races that informs future plot developments. (Forsaken being freed hivemind zombies, Gnomes being refugees from a nuked city etc.)

I don't think even in theory it is that good, especially if SL gets in that slot. Because of the Borrowed Powers while leveling. In BfA it was Azerite Traits during leveling, in SL it is covenant abilities as you switch zones. Getting this stuff during leveling and losing it as you enter the current expansion might be off putting.

[Sondrelk]

That would be ideal but hard to follow. An easier answer would be like Exile's Reach have the story of the zones be independent from major lore events. The reason Cata zones got outdated so fast is that they revolved around the immediate damage of the Cataclysm.

If all zones had their own story, or a story spanning a few zones, not tied to expansion events then it would feel more evergreen and not quickly outdated.

If you think about it even current zones get outdated as soon as a raid/dungeon/quest gets completed but there is no way around it.

This is why I say they should focus on basic race stories. Nelves learning about the war of the ancients and Teldrassil, Dwarves about the the differences between the three clans, Trolls about the Zandalari etc.

The only issue if you do that is if a race gets massive internal change then it would be outdated, but realistically how often does that happen really? Not to mention it could probably be changed if required anyways.

[Shadochi]

Also I have only so far done the Chromie time leveling for Loremasters achieves I am missing, but is BfA content enough for 10-50?

Like im just thinking how they would scale SL XP if they moved it to chromie time, and with threads of fate (obviously not usable for new players) each bonus objective would give you over a level?

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This is why I say they should focus on basic race stories. Nelves learning about the war of the ancients and Teldrassil, Dwarves about the the differences between the three clans, Trolls about the Zandalari etc.

The only issue if you do that is if a race gets massive internal change then it would be outdated, but realistically how often does that happen really? Not to mention it could probably be changed if required anyways.

I agree. You mention a race getting massive internal changes. But then it would be easier for them to just update those few zones to reflect than having the whole world needing an update badly for a long time now. Cata zones have now been in the game longer than the Vanilla ones.
So as long as they don't revamp based on one single event, it makes the zones easier to update later if they get outdated.

[Sondrelk]

I don't think even in theory it is that good, especially if SL gets in that slot. Because of the Borrowed Powers while leveling. In BfA it was Azerite Traits during leveling, in SL it is covenant abilities as you switch zones. Getting this stuff during leveling and losing it as you enter the current expansion might be off putting.

BfA levelling does not give you the HoA or Azerite pieces actually, you get it at max level instead. SL could absolutely work similar, though even then I don't see why it's problematic to have two zone specific abilities while levelling, you don't have to make a choice until max level anyways afterall.

[Shadochi]

Right now if you were to start a Pandaren character, after finishing its starting zone you wouldn't see almost any reference to them at all unless you level in pandaria, even worse if you are a new player and level through Exile+BfA, then it would feel even more out of place

[Sondrelk]

Also I have only so far done the Chromie time leveling for Loremasters achieves I am missing, but is BfA content enough for 10-50?

Like im just thinking how they would scale SL XP if they moved it to chromie time, and with threads of fate (obviously not usable for new players) each bonus objective would give you over a level?

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I agree. You mention a race getting massive internal changes. But then it would be easier for them to just update those few zones to reflect than having the whole world needing an update badly for a long time now. Cata zones have now been in the game longer than the Vanilla ones.
So as long as they don't revamp based on one single event, it makes the zones easier to update later if they get outdated.

BfA alone is enough for 10-50, it is afterall the "canon" levelling for new players.

[Shadochi]

BfA levelling does not give you the HoA or Azerite pieces actually, you get it at max level instead. SL could absolutely work similar, though even then I don't see why it's problematic to have two zone specific abilities while levelling, you don't have to make a choice until max level anyways afterall.

Oh have they updated this? I remembered getting my neck and first azerite piece in Silithus I think, and it had an Army of Light appearance, before venturing to Kul Tiras.

As for SL, yes to us existing players it isn't problematic, however for now players they might expect that to be the norm and thinking okay each zones in the game has a unique ability. Also it is a power loss still once you move on, and in some cases changes the way you play your class. Sure they wouldn't get to pick a covenant for longer but leveling still has you try them all

[Sondrelk]

Oh have they updated this? I remembered getting my neck and first azerite piece in Silithus I think, and it had an Army of Light appearance, before venturing to Kul Tiras.

As for SL, yes to us existing players it isn't problematic, however for now players they might expect that to be the norm and thinking okay each zones in the game has a unique ability. Also it is a power loss still once you move on, and in some cases changes the way you play your class. Sure they wouldn't get to pick a covenant for longer but leveling still has you try them all

BfA was changed after the new Chromie time system was implemented. Though only for characters created after it was implemented I believe.

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I somehow doubt SL will be the canon levelling same as BfA, the plot is simply too out there right after Exiles reach, and unlike BfA there is no way to remove the more out there elements and still leave the meat.

We will either stick to BfA, or get something new.