Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Shadochi]

Sinestra as 10.0's final boss? Sorry bro, that character was already killed in cata

Pretty sure either in a class hall in Legion or in BfA it was said she is active again or something. Also isn't it that we don't actually bring her to 0 in Cata?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pretty sure either in a class hall in Legion or in BfA it was said she is active again or something. Also isn't it that we don't actually bring her to 0 in Cata?

Supposedly she was whispering to her son Zeryxia.

[Varx]

Sinestra as 10.0's final boss? Sorry bro, that character was already killed in cata

Might wanna do the shaman order hall campaign.

She's very much active out there in the great dark beyond. The twilight's hammer and dragonflight are both still active too.

My theory is that she's acting herald for the void lords.

[Wadrak]

I'd like to know the story behind this myself. If I recall, they regretted wasting Illidan, the big marketing element of the expansion, right off the bat. However, the expansion was always named for Kil'jaeden's war (Sargeras was still ambiguously out of commission at the time), not Illidan's. So they might just have not thought through the name too much back then, or Kil'jaeden was always planned, they just still felt Illidan was used poorly.

I may be wrong but I always thought Isle of Quel Danas was a quick time filler when Blizzard realized WotLK is too far away.

Im not saying it wasnt high quality content it was completely fine. But to me it look like it wasnt plannned.

But perhaps they did planned it all along.

This is why many people think TBC's lore was all over the place. But yeah "Burnign Crusade", that's a legion thing not Illidan. Makes sense that KJ was the final boss, even if he wasn't planned from the start.

For SL however, there's no one else. Jailor = KJ, Sylvanas = Illidan, KT is dead, Malganis is a 9.2 raid boss, who else could be the final boss of SL in a hypothetical 9.3? Nathanos????

Well there some supposed to be story about conspiracy of Dreadlords.

Basically the whole expansion doesnt have to be about same enemy type.

Like in WotLK, main enemy was Lick King undead.
But there was also Old God, Yogg Saron.
Dragon Aspect, Malygos, etc.

Expansions should be varied so not every content patch is against same enemies, atleast thats how Blizzard use to approach it.

If there was a 9.3 could be anything.
Maybe final boss could be boss dreadlord, with some Legion and other minions pulling the strings. Or something.

[Varx]

I may be wrong but I always thought Isle of Quel Danas was a quick time filler when Blizzard realized WotLK is too far away.

Im not saying it wasnt high quality content it was completely fine. But to me it look like it wasnt plannned.

But perhaps they did planned it all along.



Well there some supposed to be story about conspiracy of Dreadlords.

Basically the whole expansion doesnt have to be about same enemy type.

Like in WotLK, main enemy was Lick King undead.
But there was also Old God, Yogg Saron.
Dragon Aspect, Malygos, etc.

Expansions should be varied so not every content patch is against same enemies, atleast thats how Blizzard use to approach it.

If there was a 9.3 could be anything.
Maybe final boss could be boss dreadlord, with some Legion and other minions pulling the strings. Or something.

Not for SL, papi. At most I could see maybe a first one, but that's assuming they're still alive or even hostile. Regardless blizz confirmed SL's main plot ends with 9.2. If there's a 9.2.5 or even 9.3, it'll be to bridge the gap between SL and 10.0.

[Shadochi]

Not for SL, papi. At most I could see maybe a first one, but that's assuming they're still alive or even hostile. Regardless blizz confirmed SL's main plot ends with 9.2. If there's a 9.2.5 or even 9.3, it'll be to bridge the gap between SL and 10.0.

That is what Wadrak is saying tho. 9.3 (which probably wont happen but fun to speculate still) doesn't need to be a continuation of the SL story, but whatever.

[Wadrak]

Something called the Jailer's gauntlet being added, I don't recall details but I know that.

Actually I knew about this one, but im not playing retail atm so I dont know if its already in game or not.

But this is what Im talking about, they keep improving the features like Torghast, so if there was 9.3, they may have some more cool ideas for Torghast.

[Jokubas]

Expansions should be varied so not every content patch is against same enemies, atleast thats how Blizzard use to approach it.

I elaborated a bit on this earlier, but you're right. The thing is, evidence suggests the "detour patch" (as I was calling it) was scrapped this expansion (and would have been the original 9.1 or 9.2, with the current 9.2 being 9.3). It's the easiest thing to sacrifice when delays and internal issues strain the schedule as much as Shadowlands.

[Shadochi]

Actually I knew about this one, but im not playing retail atm so I dont know if its already in game or not.

But this is what Im talking about, they keep improving the features like Torghast, so if there was 9.3, they may have some more cool ideas for Torghast.

Honestly, I want them to add in the Endless fun mode from Beta in 9.2.5 or whatever patch. Make it give nothing or give catchup currency/BoA tokens based on floor you complete or cosmetic rewards, honestly I'd probably play 20sih hours of it over multiple classes just for the fun aspect of the builds. The 18 layers of Twisting corridors already make it pretty fun by the end. Make it harder scaling and endless and it would be fun.

[Dracullus]

That is what Wadrak is saying tho. 9.3 (which probably wont happen but fun to speculate still) doesn't need to be a continuation of the SL story, but whatever.

Imo, with right patch schedule of course, X.3 should always be true filler, some completely side story that takes place somewhere in old Azeroth (any zone, not just EK/Kalimdor), with size similar to 8.3. This way story would conclude in X.2 and new expac reveal wouldn't spoil anything.

Ironically, you could make strong case that 8.3 was exactly that. But you know what I mean, something more like Mechagon than N'zoth.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Imo, with right patch schedule of course, X.3 should always be true filler, some completely side story that takes place somewhere in old Azeroth (any zone, not just EK/Kalimdor), with size similar to 8.3. This way story would conclude in X.2 and new expac reveal wouldn't spoil anything.

Ironically, you could make strong case that 8.3 was exactly that. But you know what I mean, something more like Mechagon than N'zoth.

No, there should of been a 9.3 but I digress.

[Wadrak]

I elaborated a bit on this earlier, but you're right. The thing is, evidence suggests the "detour patch" (as I was calling it) was scrapped this expansion (and would have been the original 9.1 or 9.2, with the current 9.2 being 9.3). It's the easiest thing to sacrifice when delays and internal issues strain the schedule as much as Shadowlands.

Actually you may be right I thought about this as well, that basically the current 9.2 was supposed to be 9.3. And something else was supposed to be between.

Also im saying that because I was watching certain very popular streamer on twitch few days ago, and he was also rather negatively surprised watching 9.2 preview video which hints its the last patch.
Surprised there will be no 9.3.

[Ersula]

Honestly, I want them to add in the Endless fun mode from Beta in 9.2.5 or whatever patch. Make it give nothing or give catchup currency/BoA tokens based on floor you complete or cosmetic rewards, honestly I'd probably play 20sih hours of it over multiple classes just for the fun aspect of the builds. The 18 layers of Twisting corridors already make it pretty fun by the end. Make it harder scaling and endless and it would be fun.

Torghast could have been fun with more development, but we're already getting "Torghast is now completely optional" and they only do this when they've completely given up on something.

[Jokubas]

Imo, with right patch schedule of course, X.3 should always be true filler, some completely side story that takes place somewhere in old Azeroth (any zone, not just EK/Kalimdor), with size similar to 8.3. This way story would conclude in X.2 and new expac reveal wouldn't spoil anything.

I was going to disagree at first because it makes it sound like the expansion culminates in something unrelated, but then I realized I actually agree completely, although I might even take it a bit further.

I have been told FFXIV is similar, but one thing I like about GW2 is that when you buy an expansion you get a story with a definitive conclusion. The patch content is used primarily to bridge between expansions and sometimes cover other things.

World of Warcraft's method of just being almost perpetually serial is certainly a popular storytelling method these days, but it's one that I've gotten completely and utterly burned out of universally. When everything is buildup and nothing is payoff, and when what "payoff" there is gets immediately overshadowed by a bigger twist or sequel hook, you never get to appreciate it. It's like reading the beginning of all of the Sherlock Holmes stories in a row and never reading their endings.

[Ersula]

Actually you may be right I thought about this as well, that basically the current 9.2 was supposed to be 9.3. And something else was supposed to be between.

This is what I was saying. Battle for Ardenweald was likely planned to be a whole raid instead of a scenario. The Elune story stuff would have gone here rather than being shoved into the same patch as all the Sanctum/Korthia stuff.

[Shadochi]

I elaborated a bit on this earlier, but you're right. The thing is, evidence suggests the "detour patch" (as I was calling it) was scrapped this expansion (and would have been the original 9.1 or 9.2, with the current 9.2 being 9.3). It's the easiest thing to sacrifice when delays and internal issues strain the schedule as much as Shadowlands.

There was someone on 4chan or the forums after they announced 9.2 saying how the original plan was to have 3 patches but due to delays it got merged into 2.
9.1 was supposed to be what we got minus Korthia and Tazavesh I believe, following what we usually got in .1 patches (SoD, Maw endgame zone update with assaults and the additional area and part of the 9.1 campaign). That is why it seems so fast paced that in 9.1 we found out about sigils, lost them and crafted new one. Apparently it was supposed to end with us capturing Sylvanas. If you look at the campaign nothing really requires Korthia. We do get the Necro Sigil from there but that could've been just hidden in a different place.

9.2 was supposed to be Korthia (but actual Korthia with more of the city area, as it was pushed sooner they couldn't finish it so we barely got a small area of the city), Tazavesh dungeon and a Broker themed raid with Anduin as the final boss, and IIRC the story was to be about us finding a way into Zereth Mortis, finding out about it or looking for a way to recraft the Sigils with the help of info from Brokers to follow the jailer (not sure which of those 3).

And then 9.3 is what we get except of course without Anduin and whichever other bosses would be in the 9.2 raid.

But because of already delayed and pushed back stuff they had to coalesce this into 2 patches leaving out the variety patch and a strangely placed 9.1 campaign. I kinda believe this to be true since when they announced 9.1 we didn't get to see any of Korthia meaning they were probably early in development when announcing it (which is strange to announce a patch when you can't showcase a big part of it) and the story pacing makes sense then.

- - - Updated - - -

In the end, the same that happened to BFA and WoD also happens to Shadowlands. The end will not be very spectular, as the players already left the game in droves. So why should blizzard put any additional effort into this expac?

We saw it with N'Zoth and we saw it with the lame end of WoD, which was as spectacular as another return of Onyxia.

Do not get your hopes up for the next expac, as nothing the devs do will change. They repeat the same lies with "player agenda", they just replace their borrowed power systems with new ones, renaming and relabeling them, bringing nothing new but just continue with their bad attitudes and focus on what they like most and not the players.

Huh, BfA? I would say that the Saurfang vs Sylvanas cinematic was a perfect culmination to what the 8.0 and 8.1 stories were pointing. The other storyline started in 8.1.5 mostly but was hardly the culmination of the whole expansion.
Also while sure the Nzoth cinematic was shit, BfA was still a much better story expansion than WoD.

[Wadrak]

This is what I was saying. Battle for Ardenweald was likely planned to be a whole raid instead of a scenario. The Elune story stuff would have gone here rather than being shoved into the same patch as all the Sanctum/Korthia stuff.

Could be that, well I also thought for some time there will be something in The Bastion against those Black Kyrians.

Because Kyrians are basically like angels, and characters like archangels are suppose to be very powerful.

And very powerful being make good raid bosses.

Also I really like that zone and also the dungeon Spires of Ascention. Basically it would be like that but bigger.

But atleast the Zereth Mortis looks bit similar to The Bastion, atleast the Sepulcher raid does, so there may be similar bosses like powerful Kyrians inside.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I was going to disagree at first because it makes it sound like the expansion culminates in something unrelated, but then I realized I actually agree completely, although I might even take it a bit further.

I have been told FFXIV is similar, but one thing I like about GW2 is that when you buy an expansion you get a story with a definitive conclusion. The patch content is used primarily to bridge between expansions and sometimes cover other things.

World of Warcraft's method of just being almost perpetually serial is certainly a popular storytelling method these days, but it's one that I've gotten completely and utterly burned out of universally. When everything is buildup and nothing is payoff, and when what "payoff" there is gets immediately overshadowed by a bigger twist or sequel hook, you never get to appreciate it. It's like reading the beginning of all of the Sherlock Holmes stories in a row and never reading their endings.

GWII patches are smaller though and I like the amount of content each major content patch brings. When we get one less major content patch I feel the expansion is lesser for it.

[damonskye]

No, sorry, beside a few cinematics the end of BFA was really bad.

Somewhere on YouTube, I remember seeing that "end of N'Zoth" cinematic set to the music over the tower's fall at the end of "Return of the King," and it was hilarious how it matched up almost perfectly. Hilarious, and yet so sad at the same time.

[Shadochi]

Only because it was better than WoD does not mean it was good. The end of N'Zoth and the whole implementation of the Black Empire was a joke compared what could have been done. Instead of implementing the Black Empire as a questing zone with a rich narrative they actually ignored it completely and implemented some stupid quests into phased old areas. The raid was lackluster, the end of N'Zoth was a "Return of the King" Remake with Saurons end without any own ideas. I mean.. we see some pillar crumbling to dust and thats it.. as like if a mini version of Barad Dur was crumbling to dust.. i am sure it would be more epic to watch Hazzikostas talking about encounter math than that..

No, sorry, beside a few cinematics the end of BFA was really bad.

I agree on the Black Empire being wasted part, but as it was the last known Old God, and IIRC the weakest it wouldn't make much sense for him getting a different treatment than the previous 2. He had more hinting and story around him in that expansion than the previous ones. I assume they added Nyalotha to it as they saw it like something they couldn't use anymore after the last Old God has been defeated so they decided to add it, but from the raid design to me it seems like we were just in the Nzoth part of the Black empire. Could still possibly see some sort of return relating to the 5th old god or Knaifu.

But in all honesty, that is what Old Gods always have been, filler/patch bosses and Nzoth got better treatment than the previous ones. Black Empire/Nyalotha was wasted, I agree, but it never had the substance to be much more. Also the only Old God we got in game cinematics for.

I guess in a sense I don't mind the ending of BfA or think it was bad as much as you do, the only gripe I have is the underwhelming raid "cinematic".