Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what even is the point of the sigils? I mean after the Jailer's taken them.

Probably to help free him from the Maw.

[Cosmic Janitor]

At first it seemed like he sigils were either just used to seal some first ones stuff or they were intrinsic to their rank/role in the shadowlands. Since they want them back but don't need them the first one is out and the second options seems unlikely as well, since they can lose them with little repercussions. So they seem like a pointless mcguffin now.

[TheFirstOnes]

It's supposedly the chamber the Arbiter resides in or something in Oribos. But that's just a theory.

It's stated once he gets all 5 Sigils, he'll go to the Sepulcher. Doubt it's the Chamber of the Arbiter. Could be on Azeroth? Maybe it's the Chamber of Heart? Maybe it's in another Cosmic Realm? Who knows.

- - - Updated - - -

The Sepulcher seems to be where he mainly wants to go tho, outside of Azeroth, which also seems to be the Jailer's goal in order to dominate all existence. He probably wants Azeroth's Power for himself, while also becoming the ruler of Death and the dominator of Life itself.

[Kiivar86]

Probably to help free him from the Maw.

Well yeah, that's why I asked "after the Jailer's taken them."

Its obvious why he needs them, but why make a replacement? To seal him back, I guess?

Just seems kinda pointless after he's taken them.

[TheFirstOnes]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what even is the point of the sigils? I mean after the Jailer's taken them.

They're essentially the keys required to push the Jailer to reality and essentially bring the Realms of Death to reality, as well as existence as a whole (Meaning, it's likely going to expand across the other Cosmic Realms aswell).

- - - Updated - - -

Well yeah, that's why I asked "after the Jailer's taken them."

Its obvious why he needs them, but why make a replacement? To seal him back, I guess?

Just seems kinda pointless after he's taken them.

We're probably going to kill the Jailer. The Keys from the Eternal Ones may also be required to keep the Shadowlands in balance. Would make sense, if the Jailer wins in 9.1, and his power + the Maw expands beyond to Reality and other Realms. The dude's already essentially Sargeras lvl in the SoD raid, based off him slamming the Primus, and having similar gaze moves to Sargeras from similar distances.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's stated once he gets all 5 Sigils, he'll go to the Sepulcher. Doubt it's the Chamber of the Arbiter. Could be on Azeroth? Maybe it's the Chamber of Heart? Maybe it's in another Cosmic Realm? Who knows.

- - - Updated - - -

The Sepulcher seems to be where he mainly wants to go tho, outside of Azeroth, which also seems to be the Jailer's goal in order to dominate all existence. He probably wants Azeroth's Power for himself, while also becoming the ruler of Death and the dominator of Life itself.

Sounds like a First Ones place, maybe some font of knowledge, some kind of machine that manages the shadowlands/death or opens the path to it's creators/their grave (hint: sepulcher). You can essentially throw any of the dozens of <ancient precursor civilization> tropes here and it might fight.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well yeah, that's why I asked "after the Jailer's taken them."

Its obvious why he needs them, but why make a replacement? To seal him back, I guess?

Just seems kinda pointless after he's taken them.

I took it as, being able to keep the Jailer chained to the Maw despite him having the sigils. I realize thats a bit of speculation but thats what it sounded like. Honestly, I don't see thats how it will go. The way the Sylvanas boss fight goes, it seems like the Jailer is going to at least gain the edge in some form or another even if Sylvanas is on the ground almost dead.

[Raetary]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what even is the point of the sigils? I mean after the Jailer's taken them.

They are keys to get to the Sepulcher.

[Sondrelk]

Honestly, if Sigils can so easily be remade, they lose a lot of importance / significance.

Hey, the Sigils were destroyed, no problem, let's just make new ones in a blink! But first you need to figure out your personal stuff. This is storytelling cringe territory in my opinion.

On the surface it might look bad, bit I would argue that it could be a decent narrative if done correctly.

For one we don't know what the covenants finding themselves entails. For Maldraxxus it might require anything from filling all Margrave positions to some kind of ritual war.
For Kyrians it might seem like it just means they need to not be at war, but it could be more. For all we know it could require a separate macguffin that is difficult to obtain.

This does make me curious about the next patches though. It is the first time in a while that I feel it would be a waste to abandon the initial zones for a new one in whatever patch comes next, I really do hope it leads to even stronger covenant identity going forward instead of "finding themselves" meaning becoming the same usual homogenous force that happened in Legion with the Legionfall.

[Nyel]

On the surface it might look bad, bit I would argue that it could be a decent narrative if done correctly.

For one we don't know what the covenants finding themselves entails. For Maldraxxus it might require anything from filling all Margrave positions to some kind of ritual war.
For Kyrians it might seem like it just means they need to not be at war, but it could be more. For all we know it could require a separate macguffin that is difficult to obtain.

This does make me curious about the next patches though. It is the first time in a while that I feel it would be a waste to abandon the initial zones for a new one in whatever patch comes next, I really do hope it leads to even stronger covenant identity going forward instead of "finding themselves" meaning becoming the same usual homogenous force that happened in Legion with the Legionfall.

My problem with it is that it sounds like a self-help group for Covenants. This doesn’t seem right if we think about the severity of the Shadowlands‘ problems.

The thing with the Shadowlands‘ zones and Covenants in 9.1 is that they basically wrap up their storylines - 9.1 acts like a closure to the Covenant campaigns and the zones itself, there’s really nothing left for 9.2 to happen in the already established Shadowlands zones.

[huth]

Honestly, if Sigils can so easily be remade, they lose a lot of importance / significance.

Keys are easy to make or copy if you know what shape you need. The significance comes from them getting into the hands of people you don't want to have them, not from them being hard to make.

[Sondrelk]

My problem with it is that it sounds like a self-help group for Covenants. This doesn’t seem right if we think about the severity of the Shadowlands‘ problems.

The thing with the Shadowlands‘ zones and Covenants in 9.1 is that they basically wrap up their storylines - 9.1 acts like a closure to the Covenant campaigns and the zones itself, there’s really nothing left for 9.2 to happen in the already established Shadowlands zones.

While the zones have mostly concluded their stories they still have some stuff left that could be explored. Especially if the idea is that they need to become truly whole again to create a new sigil.

Venthyr still has story to tell regarding the Dreadlords, and by extension the light.
Necrolords still needs to find new Margraves. And we still have no real idea what that means, or whether it requires completing a trial or even if it gives a power boost like some of the Margraves seem to imply.
Kyrians need to decide on the whole memory matter, but more importantly because of Uther the story is not ended until we find Arthas.
Night Fae could be about dealing with Tyrande and hte power of the Night Warrior.


In hte end we have to see how it all plays out, but there is always room for more story.

[Edward Wu]

Seems like The Primus is far and away the strongest of the 4 covenant leaders and their de-facto leader.

The Winter Queen seems #2 in power, followed by Kyrestia at #3. Denathrius might be the weakest out of them (but still really strong) however probably the most cunning and intelligent by a long shot.

Kyrestia seems the least impressive of them regardless.

[Kereberus]

So Sylvanas DOES NOT die at the end of the raid, was this datamined or just assumed?

[TheFirstOnes]

Seems like The Primus is far and away the strongest of the 4 covenant leaders and their de-facto leader.

The Winter Queen seems #2 in power, followed by Kyrestia at #3. Denathrius might be the weakest out of them (but still really strong) however probably the most cunning and intelligent by a long shot.

Kyrestia seems the least impressive of them regardless.

How the fuck can you call Kyrestia more powerful than Denathrius when she was getting slapped around by Devos? She had the Spear of Bastion sure, but even beforehand, she and Kyrestia were equal in power, and we still kicked her ass. Denathrius at the very least was a challenge for us.

[Cosmic Janitor]

How the fuck can you call Kyrestia more powerful than Denathrius when she was getting slapped around by Devos? She had the Spear of Bastion sure, but even beforehand, she and Kyrestia were equal in power, and we still kicked her ass. Denathrius at the very least was a challenge for us.

Denathrius was the only of the 4 that wasn't anima starved, the opposite actually, he was fully juiced with plenty to spare.

[TheFirstOnes]

Denathrius was the only of the 4 that wasn't anima starved, the opposite actually, he was fully juiced with plenty to spare.

I mean...true! Also explains why the other Eternals are around Keeper level, like the Primus currently. Being Anima starved drains power.

[Nyel]

While the zones have mostly concluded their stories they still have some stuff left that could be explored. Especially if the idea is that they need to become truly whole again to create a new sigil.

Venthyr still has story to tell regarding the Dreadlords, and by extension the light.
Necrolords still needs to find new Margraves. And we still have no real idea what that means, or whether it requires completing a trial or even if it gives a power boost like some of the Margraves seem to imply.
Kyrians need to decide on the whole memory matter, but more importantly because of Uther the story is not ended until we find Arthas.
Night Fae could be about dealing with Tyrande and hte power of the Night Warrior.


In hte end we have to see how it all plays out, but there is always room for more story.

If we view it from that perspective, every expansion could have way more lore attached to them. But all of that was deemed a side story and simply not important enough - and that’s the feeling I get from everything you mentioned. It’s just stuff that exists and most will be left out because it doesn’t matter for the overarching plot. Major storylines like the Tyrande stuff will get resolved, but something like the Margraves really doesn’t matter at all from our perspective.

[Makabreska]

How the fuck can you call Kyrestia more powerful than Denathrius when she was getting slapped around by Devos? She had the Spear of Bastion sure, but even beforehand, she and Kyrestia were equal in power, and we still kicked her ass. Denathrius at the very least was a challenge for us.

I don't really think you can apply this kind of logic here. Devos shreking Archon was for the purpose of having her as a final Spires boss. It was done for the gameplay reason and dramatic effect, with Kyrestia helping us during it and all.

[Nyel]

So Sylvanas DOES NOT die at the end of the raid, was this datamined or just assumed?

There’s a Sylvanas novel coming out in November, it makes no sense that she dies in game before that. So yes, it’s just an assumption, but that she was ever going to die was highly unlikely.