Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

Orcs don’t use laser rifles in 40k they build weapons out of any thing they can get there hands on but they almost always shoot hard munitions and they prefer close combat mostly ignoring that they have guns all together to rush targets to fight in melee.

This guy is goddamn Lorgar Aurelian! He knows his orcs!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This guy is goddamn Lorgar Aurelian! He knows his orcs!

The filthy Xeno’s do not worship the dark gods any knowledge is only for better removal.

[Zers Editor]

I'm glad that for once they decided to allow us to actually speculate on how things will go post-raid, instead of revealing everything in PTR right away, thus ruining any amount of anticipation (8.3, IMO).

[Polybius]

SL is great and who cares if it's the most played or not? The only people that seem to care are people that hate it and look for an excuse to mald that the servers haven't shut down yet.

SL is passable, and if you have a friends list like I do you’ll see that less than a tenth are still playing.

What you see in game is sharding. Hell, even RP servers like Moon Guard have sharding now, which they promised it wouldn’t have.

You see so much negativity outside the game and official forums because players won’t be arsed to sub just to give their opinion. They still care about the game, but the inverse isn’t true.

[Miffinat0r]

No, it is no "normal development", if a MMORPG expansion launches, and 60% of its players leave after the first month. An expansion could bring the novelty a new game does. It just does not, as the developers do not know how to do it.

Also, no, FFXIV does not see a massive hype and a massive sub loss.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

The last 30 days had have the 2nd largest number of concurrent players the game had since its launch, having december as the best month in history of the game. Even if there are temporary losses, they always stabilize again within a few weeks. The game is 8 years old, WoW did already decline after cataclysm, and was spiralling down after 5 years. Since cataclysm end, the game suffers from sub losses, and blizzard already knew those days it was the casual/normal gamers that mainly left their games. They tried to gain casual gamers back since then but with an unfun implementation of the world content which was never engaging or fun.

Fact is, WoW could be way more successfull if the devs just would get rid of their biggest mistake they started to implement since Catacylsm.. the massive dumbing down of gameplay for the masses, starting at dead dull world content and culminating in LFR being a theater trash version of the raiding game, without character progression, just being there to let millions see the content, to make raids work financially, while every aspect of good gameplay was lost to the developers bad idea to rape the raiding game to be compatible to matchmaking.

Blizzard thought, for some reason, most of the casual gamers would like stupid gameplay, but obviously they had been wrong. Being a casual gamer does not mean you want to endlessly grind mobs which hit like a feather, it also does not mean you want to play a theater mode raid where the best thing you can do is not to troll other players out of boredom, as the matchmade raiding game itself is not compelling at all.

If Blizzard wants to have a large audience of solo players or matchmade group content players, they have to create gameplay for them, and not just copy paste a game component like premade group raids and water them down to a zero-gameplay feature. Games have to be engaing, fun and not just content shows.

Let me get this straight. Your solution to casual players leaving, is to make the game more exclusive, and hard?

That's a bold strategy cotton, lets see if it pays off.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

SL is passable, and if you have a friends list like I do you’ll see that less than a tenth are still playing.

What you see in game is sharding. Hell, even RP servers like Moon Guard have sharding now, which they promised it wouldn’t have.

You see so much negativity outside the game and official forums because players won’t be arsed to sub just to give their opinion. They still care about the game, but the inverse isn’t true.

Your friend's list is ancedotal and doesn't really determine if an expansion is good or not.

[Veya30]

Orcs don’t use laser rifles in 40k they build weapons out of any thing they can get there hands on but they almost always shoot hard munitions and they prefer close combat mostly ignoring that they have guns all together to rush targets to fight in melee.

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It’s not that people are leaving after expan launch’s in wow but sticking around in FF it’s that more people are trying FF which off set those who leave.

FF was at like what 26 or so million accounts yet isn’t any where near that many subs because most people try it and then leave just like wow.

My guild has about 8 people who play FF14; they sub up whenever FF drops new content and we only see them for raid nights / Mythic+ nights, then after a month or so they come back full time to WoW. I do the same with ESO, I sub up when they drop new content and play it; then when I get bored I unsub.

I know this is just a small sample size, but I'm curious how many other people keep their WoW sub going, but also play other MMO's. I have a friend who hasn't logged into WoW since end of October, but he popped on to get his Christmas toy and then hasn't been on since. He just keeps his sub going even if he's not playing the game currently.

[Revamp Man]

Because players continue to play other MMORPGs short after expac releases. The best evidence for the incompetence of the developers, and in special the game director Ion Hazzikostas is the fact that 6 of 10 players stop playing after the first month. While other MMORPGs like FFXIV gain even new customers without any sub decline in sight.

I mean.. you may dislike reality. But here it is. WoW sucks, and that is the reason people leave. Wow is made for a minority and has no gameplay for the normal player, just for ultra casuals (which are a minority) and for organized raiders (which are a minority).

Can we stop blaming watcher lol
The guy has admitted to not completely overlooking the systems with the benthic armor which if he looked at it for a second he could have seen the issue but he doesn’t oversee everything he has people in charge of those areas and thinks “they get paid to pay attention to the systems and see any possible issues that arise” and it turns out they just don’t understand anything about the game

[Lorgar Aurelian]

My guild has about 8 people who play FF14; they sub up whenever FF drops new content and we only see them for raid nights / Mythic+ nights, then after a month or so they come back full time to WoW. I do the same with ESO, I sub up when they drop new content and play it; then when I get bored I unsub.

I know this is just a small sample size, but I'm curious how many other people keep their WoW sub going, but also play other MMO's. I have a friend who hasn't logged into WoW since end of October, but he popped on to get his Christmas toy and then hasn't been on since. He just keeps his sub going even if he's not playing the game currently.

Can only speak for my self (and one friend who I normally buy game time for) but I tend to keep my wow sub running all the time even if I’m not playing much and will only cancel it if I plan on subbing to something else for a couple of months which I haven’t done in Mabye 2 or so years when I last went on a planet side2 binge.

[Revamp Man]

I'm glad that for once they decided to allow us to actually speculate on how things will go post-raid, instead of revealing everything in PTR right away, thus ruining any amount of anticipation (8.3, IMO).

It’s going to either be beyond buggy and need nerfs or one shot constantly

[Polybius]

Your friend's list is ancedotal and doesn't really determine if an expansion is good or not.

Size doesn’t determine quality but it does determine retention. It’s also a pretty large size with simple random sampling thanks to adding randoms in instances and outdoor content. Of the ~500 only 20 are guildmates and longtime friends. The rest are newcomers, pugs, players that needed help outdoors, etc.

It stops becoming anecdotal when you can replicate surveying players in game and count accounts and perform longitudinal tests.

Edit: Margin of error is a thing.

[Zers Editor]

It’s going to either be beyond buggy and need nerfs or one shot constantly

I'm talking about the story.

[Relapses]

Size doesn’t determine quality but it does determine retention. It’s also a pretty large size with simple random sampling thanks to adding randoms in instances and outdoor content. Of the ~500 only 20 are guildmates and longtime friends. The rest are newcomers, pugs, players that needed help outdoors, etc.

It stops becoming anecdotal when you can replicate surveying players in game and count accounts and perform longitudinal tests.

Edit: Margin of error is a thing.

Daily reminder that the plural of anecdote is still not data.

[Polybius]

Daily reminder that the plural of anecdote is still not data.

Just a hint that anecdotes cannot be verified through experiment. Retention rates most certainly can, they’re quantitative.

[Osmeric]

Any reliable numbers for your claim? I don't see 90% less players. Over the last year a whooping three of my b.net-friends stopped playing and that was all because of work or perosnal reasons.

A while ago Blizzard stated that 100 M+ people had played the game at one point or another. And right now, the numbers is a few million.

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Let me get this straight. Your solution to casual players leaving, is to make the game more exclusive, and hard?

That's a bold strategy cotton, lets see if it pays off.

I know, right? It's like the people making these suggestions have no sanity filter between their subconscious and their typing fingers.

[Relapses]

Just a hint that anecdotes cannot be verified through experiment. Retention rates most certainly can, they’re quantitative.

You literally cannot determine the retention data of a video game with millions of fucking subscribers based off of a sample size that is, at best, 200 players.

[username993720]

Yeah, the race that is most known for cutting down Ashenvale get the Druid class. What's next? Goblin Druids? Lightforged warlocks? Dream on :P

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rala_Wildheart#Notes

[Osmeric]

No, as making every content hard would make the ultra casuals who like no challenge leave. Add more difficulties to the game.

No. This wouldn't work. The casuals leave because they correctly recognize that they are second (or lower) class citizens. The disdain of the devs leaks through in everything they do. Who wants to send $$$ to people who despise you? Adding more difficulties just enlarges the caste system.

The solution is for the new corporate owners to clean house, hose down all the residue of hardcore preference, and refocus the game from the ground up on the casual players -- and ONLY on the casual players. Others might get a bone thrown to them, but in a way that clearly tells them they are the minority.

[Polybius]

You literally cannot determine the retention data of a video game with millions of fucking subscribers based off of a sample size that is, at best, 200 players.

It’s a population sample.

I mean, you honestly expect someone, even a Statistician, to gather a size of thousands? That’s what stats methods are for, to test a pop. based on samples.

Feel free to report your own findings. The more lists that can be compared the clearer the picture.

I only started collecting and marking activity when people started saying WoW was dying for every little thing (late MoP). I wanted to see if that was true (it really isn’t, players come back and go as usual but less have come back).

I will say though, popular as Legion may have been, it wasn’t as played as Cata or MoP. Blizzard said Legion was fastest selling, but not most sold. Digital copies sell easier. Nuance is everything. They can’t strive for WorLK numbers anymore.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rala_Wildheart#Notes

No

Nelf paladins or riot