Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Kokolums]

There have been 10 years at least since Cata had us running around Westfall. Sentinel hill was just being fortified, 10 years is more than enough time to have it become a proper military garrison, better yet a real town.

That would not make any lore sense at all. The current lore is that the vast majority of Azeroth is untamed wilderness with stray outposts held by simple people barely fending off low level animals. And its been that way for thousands of years. To see major garrisons and towns popping up everywhere in 10 years makes absolutely zero sense. Even Northrend was lore butchery in WOLK because in Warcraft 3, Northrend was almost 100% wilderness with just one simple fort on the southern edge, and when implemented in WOLK, the place had towns, fort, garrisons, well-manicured roads all over the place. Northrend looked MORE settled than Kalimdor or the Eastern Kingdoms. It was a lore disaster.

No, given the lore we have, it would make sense that fortifications, settlements, even whole towns are lost to the wilderness over time and civilization regresses and steps back. It has to, or the entire planet would have been fully settled ages ago. And that would be an interesting path to take. We return from Shadowlands and civilization goes backwards and we try to stem the tide before it all revert back to primitive tribes fighting for basic survival again.

Maybew we return from SL and the people of Azeroth have this lore about these "titans" from ages ago, except they are talking about us. And we visit old towns, now abandoned, and we view it as recovering the old, and they see us as unlocking and solving ancient mysteries. Maybe some see us as saviors, asking us to imbue the dragons with mystical powers. Others see us as a great threat that will try to reorder "their" Azeroth.

[Sondrelk]

That would not make any lore sense at all. The current lore is that the vast majority of Azeroth is untamed wilderness with stray outposts held by simple people barely fending off low level animals. And its been that way for thousands of years. To see major garrisons and towns popping up everywhere in 10 years makes absolutely zero sense. Even Northrend was lore butchery in WOLK because in Warcraft 3, Northrend was almost 100% wilderness with just one simple fort on the southern edge, and when implemented in WOLK, the place had towns, fort, garrisons, well-manicured roads all over the place. Northrend looked MORE settled than Kalimdor or the Eastern Kingdoms. It was a lore disaster.

No, given the lore we have, it would make sense that fortifications, settlements, even whole towns are lost to the wilderness over time and civilization regresses and steps back. It has to, or the entire planet would have been fully settled ages ago. And that would be an interesting path to take. We return from Shadowlands and civilization goes backwards and we try to stem the tide before it all revert back to primitive tribes fighting for basic survival again.

Maybew we return from SL and the people of Azeroth have this lore about these "titans" from ages ago, except they are talking about us. And we visit old towns, now abandoned, and we view it as recovering the old, and they see us as unlocking and solving ancient mysteries. Maybe some see us as saviors, asking us to imbue the dragons with mystical powers. Others see us as a great threat that will try to reorder "their" Azeroth.

Regardless 10 years is a lot of time. Westfall was a poor region filled with dying farms. Sentinel Hill was the only major area of activity that wasnt homeless camps or criminal hideouts.
10+ years is a lot of time. Maybe all the farms have been abandoned and noone lives there anymore. Maybe Sentinel Hill revitalized the area and it is now a bustling trade center. Maybe Stormwind put a lot of resources into the region to make it profitable but is at war with the remaining Defias holdouts in Moonbrook, leading the zone to be split down the middle.

There are loads of opportunities for all areas on the old world to explore. 10 years is a massive amount of time. Towns could have been abandoned and retaken in that time. Areas that were once untamed wilderness could have become a small village. Settlements could have been burnt to the ground, rebuilt and then lost to a roaming band of irate gophers.


We are not talking about a far-off area like Northrend, we are talking about the towns literally right outside the major cities. Whatever happened to Darkshire after we killed most of their leadership in Legion. What about all the devastation in the Barrens and subsequent attempts at growing new forests tehre by the Cenarion circle?
It is one thing to assume that cities have popped up in Feralas, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to wonder whatever happened to Andorhal after the skirmish there that saw the Forsaken seemingly gain control, especially now that they were seeemingly driven out of Lordaeron and their leader has been shown as complete evil.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

@Sondrelk Where are you getting 10 years from? It's been around 5-6 years since Cata in-game.

[huth]

Welp, Sylvi final boss of next tier, so here comes the obligatory:

[img]

You forgot "everybody switches roles with each other". Anduin is now the Primus, the Primus is the new Sylvanas, Sylvanas is the Archon, Kyrestia is the new Jailer, Zovaal is the new Winter Queen, the Winter Queen is the new Sire and Denathrius is the new Anduin. Your player character gets fed up with this shit, flips everybody off and goes on vacation in Tel'abim.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Regardless 10 years is a lot of time. Westfall was a poor region filled with dying farms. Sentinel Hill was the only major area of activity that wasnt homeless camps or criminal hideouts.
10+ years is a lot of time. Maybe all the farms have been abandoned and noone lives there anymore. Maybe Sentinel Hill revitalized the area and it is now a bustling trade center. Maybe Stormwind put a lot of resources into the region to make it profitable but is at war with the remaining Defias holdouts in Moonbrook, leading the zone to be split down the middle.

There are loads of opportunities for all areas on the old world to explore. 10 years is a massive amount of time. Towns could have been abandoned and retaken in that time. Areas that were once untamed wilderness could have become a small village. Settlements could have been burnt to the ground, rebuilt and then lost to a roaming band of irate gophers.


We are not talking about a far-off area like Northrend, we are talking about the towns literally right outside the major cities. Whatever happened to Darkshire after we killed most of their leadership in Legion. What about all the devastation in the Barrens and subsequent attempts at growing new forests tehre by the Cenarion circle?
It is one thing to assume that cities have popped up in Feralas, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to wonder whatever happened to Andorhal after the skirmish there that saw the Forsaken seemingly gain control, especially now that they were seeemingly driven out of Lordaeron and their leader has been shown as complete evil.

Less depressing and more uplifting and rebuilding is what I prefer But Cata wasn't 10 years ago, its just been that long since its release. Err more then 10 years that is.

[Sondrelk]

@Sondrelk Where are you getting 10 years from? It's been around 5-6 years since Cata in-game.

Depends on how you look at it I suppose. The amount of time spent in each expansion seems quite fluid. Could be a year, or could be longer.

10 years is probably excessive in hindsight, but I think there was a mention somewhere that each expansion lasts around 15-16 months in-game, though I might be misremembering. The only definite timeline we have is Anduin, and I am too lazy to double check.

Regardless, assuming a single year per expansion, counting from the beginning of Cata to the Beginning of SL we have a solid 5 years minimum of zones being reclaimed, towns being attacked and rebuilt, bridges being built etc.
If the Western Plaguelands could be reclaimed in the time between Vanilla and Cata then I think it reasonable to assume that most of the Eastern Plaguelands should be if not cleansed at least safe by now, opening up the possibility of a Stratholme rebuilding plotline.

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Less depressing and more uplifting and rebuilding is what I prefer But Cata wasn't 10 years ago, its just been that long since its release. Err more then 10 years that is.

Time in-game is a bit fluid. Think each expansion lasts slightly longer than a year each, though I might have to double-check.

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Just checked Anduin's wiki page, which states he was 10 in Vanilla and 18/19 in the beginning of BfA, which means each expansion does last a year and possibly a bit.

Regardless, a conservative estimate of 5 years is still a lot of time for stuff to change in the old world, a time skip is not really necessary.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Regardless, a conservative estimate of 5 years is still a lot of time for stuff to change in the old world, a time skip is not really necessary.

I think the biggest draw of a time skip is that you can change things more drastically if a longer time passed, at least if it's supposed to be consistent (if we pretend for a moment Blizzard would care about this).

But I agree, for "normal" adventures 5 years is already enough to have zones show new story lines if they really wanted to do that. I'm personally a fan of a 10-20 year skip at most though, since more than that would just serve as a lame excuse to reboot everyone not an elf or draenei. 100+ would just be no longer warcraft as we know it, and the franchise practically survives on the nostalgia fumes alone.

[Varodoc]

It would be very interesting to see Stormwind updated to reflect its change of leadership. Maybe more focus could be given to the Cathedral Square? I imagine Turalyon would want to embellish it someway. Maybe they could build a small Draenei area for Turalyon's forces? And what about Alleria, I think she'd happy to build some elven structures in the fields surrounding Stormwind.

Orgrimmar was updated so many times to reflect changes in leadership. When Garrosh became Warchief, Orgrimmar was revamped completely. As Garrosh became increasingly tyrannical, Orgrimmar was updated to reflect that. Etc. etc. etc. I'd like to see Stormwind updated too to reflect the change of power from Anduin to Turalyon/Alleria.

Anduin is not coming back by the way. His time as King is over. And No, that Comic from Legion was decreed by Afrasiabi to be just a potential future, not set in stone.

[Nyel]

Hey, if Anduin is removed from the Alliance (leadership) forever, Shadowlands would have at least one positive outcome.

[huth]

I think the biggest draw of a time skip is that you can change things more drastically if a longer time passed, at least if it's supposed to be consistent (if we pretend for a moment Blizzard would care about this).

But I agree, for "normal" adventures 5 years is already enough to have zones show new story lines if they really wanted to do that. I'm personally a fan of a 10-20 year skip at most though, since more than that would just serve as a lame excuse to reboot everyone not an elf or draenei. 100+ would just be no longer warcraft as we know it, and the franchise practically survives on the nostalgia fumes alone.

Yeah, a few decades would be nice. Plenty of time for the world to change and everybody to rebuild, but not so much that people would be completely different.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

His time as King is over.

Yeah uhhhhhh there is no basis for that other then headcanon.

He's not coming back. The Ren'dorei and Lightforged shall now be leading the Alliance.

More speculation that there is no basis other then your absurd love of the Void.

[Varodoc]

Hey, if Anduin is removed from the Alliance (leadership) forever, Shadowlands would have at least one positive outcome.

He's not coming back. The Ren'dorei and Lightforged shall now be leading the Alliance.

It feels good to be right, I've been claiming since 2017 that the Ren'dorei would indeed prove to be invaluable to the Alliance.

No one is going to accept a child touched by Satan's sorcery, his time as King was short-lived and is over. Now he can watch from the sidelines as others rule in his place.

[Raetary]

@Sondrelk Where are you getting 10 years from? It's been around 5-6 years since Cata in-game.

Which is honestly insane.
Azerothians must have nerves of steel to keep up with the constant flow of cosmic and local assaults on the planet.

They should've just kept the in-universe timeline in sync with the RL expansion schedule, 2 years per expansion sounds at least somewhat more plausible than what we have currently.

[FarmerEd]

He's not coming back. The Ren'dorei and Lightforged shall now be leading the Alliance.

It feels good to be right, I've been claiming since 2017 that the Ren'dorei would indeed prove to be invaluable to the Alliance.

No one is going to accept a child touched by Satan's sorcery, his time as King was short-lived and is over. Now he can watch from the sidelines as others rule in his place.

I love the void elves too, but I really don't see your average member of the alliance being any less opposed to a void-touched leader than to a death touched leader. The citizens of stormwind, and the alliance as a whole, is more light than life aligned in the first place.

Anduin and Turalyon will most likely have a fight over the throne though, I agree with you on that.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I love the void elves too, but I really don't see your average member of the alliance being any less opposed to a void-touched leader than to a death touched leader. The citizens of stormwind, and the alliance as a whole, is more light than life aligned in the first place.

Anduin and Turalyon will most likely have a fight over the throne though, I agree with you on that.

Same. Soft spot for all things Lovecraft aside, I do rather see the Void Elves taking over as implausible. Turalyon empowering the Army of the Light seems very likely, though, possibly even making them a protected class.

I still do await Fascist Stormwind with baited breath. I've always loved authoritarian dictatorships and it would actually represent rare progress in Azeroth, military dictatorship being somewhat preferable to monarchy.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Same. Soft spot for all things Lovecraft aside, I do rather see the Void Elves taking over as implausible. Turalyon empowering the Army of the Light seems very likely, though, possibly even making them a protected class.

I still do await Fascist Stormwind with baited breath. I've always loved authoritarian dictatorships and it would actually represent rare progress in Azeroth, military dictatorship being somewhat preferable to monarchy.

.....No, keep that shit outta the Alliance, military dictatorship? No just stop. We don't need the Alliance to be a Blue Horde. We don't need any kind of inner conflict, more of whats been going on since Legion and hopefully not too depressing(If wer'e going back to Azeroth next xpansion)

[TheFirstOnes]

Depends on how you look at it I suppose. The amount of time spent in each expansion seems quite fluid. Could be a year, or could be longer.

10 years is probably excessive in hindsight, but I think there was a mention somewhere that each expansion lasts around 15-16 months in-game, though I might be misremembering. The only definite timeline we have is Anduin, and I am too lazy to double check.

Regardless, assuming a single year per expansion, counting from the beginning of Cata to the Beginning of SL we have a solid 5 years minimum of zones being reclaimed, towns being attacked and rebuilt, bridges being built etc.
If the Western Plaguelands could be reclaimed in the time between Vanilla and Cata then I think it reasonable to assume that most of the Eastern Plaguelands should be if not cleansed at least safe by now, opening up the possibility of a Stratholme rebuilding plotline.

- - - Updated - - -



Time in-game is a bit fluid. Think each expansion lasts slightly longer than a year each, though I might have to double-check.

- - - Updated - - -

Just checked Anduin's wiki page, which states he was 10 in Vanilla and 18/19 in the beginning of BfA, which means each expansion does last a year and possibly a bit.

Regardless, a conservative estimate of 5 years is still a lot of time for stuff to change in the old world, a time skip is not really necessary.

Except, with the Chronicle, we kinda already know the time skip from Wrath to Cata, and Cata to MoP doesn't seem to be that big a gap. WoW starts at Year 25, while Cata ends at Year 29, essentially 4 years after we canonically start our Journey (Which is EXTREMELY fast, now that I think about it). They also got MoP at Year 30 on WoWpedia, so I'm going to judge things based on that.

BFA seems to take place between Year's 33 and 34, since Anduin is 18 by the time "Before the Storm" happens (Which is in Year 33), and Anduin was 10 during Classic (Which was Year 25).

I would like to assume SL happens in Year 35, or at the very least late Year 34, exactly 9-10 years after Classic. Therefore, if you're gonna actually apply logic here...

Yeah, it's been about 5-6 years since Cata.

You're right though, in that it is a lot of time to fix shit. I do think Anduin's trying his best to help out the people of Westfall...though at the moment...he can't really do anything due to being...well...the Jailer's Avatar essentially.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

.....No, keep that shit outta the Alliance, military dictatorship? No just stop. We don't need the Alliance to be a Blue Horde. We don't need any kind of inner conflict, more of whats been going on since Legion and hopefully not too depressing(If wer'e going back to Azeroth next xpansion)

I'd say a military dictatorship doesn't necessarily mean "blue horde". If anything, that's as much of a divergence as you can get. It would just lead to a conflict with a more chaotic, but well-meaning Horde and a traditionally Evil Empire-style Alliance getting to finally have some comeuppance. I think Horde have been wanting to be the good guys in a conflict for a while, while the Alliance have finally wanted to garner a few glorious victories.

[Alanar]

.....No, keep that shit outta the Alliance, military dictatorship? No just stop. We don't need the Alliance to be a Blue Horde. We don't need any kind of inner conflict, more of whats been going on since Legion and hopefully not too depressing(If wer'e going back to Azeroth next xpansion)

There already is inner conflict within the alliance. Why do you think Tyrande ran off? Gilneas/altho hes less mad now about hes city. Anduin that has changed and will likely have some left overs when he will return.. if he will return. Tyralyon being a possible threat there for anduin.

I would say its about time the blue boys get some conflict within. Its more like fake smiling and laughing the whole time there. Cut the theatre I would say.

Being a millitary dictatorship is not something that generally fit, but with Turalyon? Maybe..

[ExiHext]

There already is inner conflict within the alliance. Why do you think Tyrande ran off? Gilneas/altho hes less mad now about hes city. Anduin that has changed and will likely have some left overs when he will return.. if he will return. Tyralyon being a possible threat there for anduin.

I would say its about time the blue boys get some conflict within. Its more like fake smiling and laughing the whole time there. Cut the theatre I would say.

Being a millitary dictatorship is not something that generally fit, but with Turalyon? Maybe..

While this sounds like an interesting plot, blizz will never pull that. There may be some mild turmoil within the alliance, but something like "military dictatorship" will not happen. They would alienate a lot of players from their faction, and I am PRETTY sure most alliance players chose their faction because they want to be the "good guys".
Not to mention the irritation of new players (if there still are any) when they chose the "noble alliance" and end up with some batsh*t crazy light-corrupted tyrant as a leader.