Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[ro9ue]

Nah, most of the features in that leak sound really bad. Dragonsworn as a skin for Shamans? Removing leveling in an MMO? Four (pointless) "micro classes"?

A developer is most likely just messing with us because they saw that leak and know we got our eyes on literally every single thing they move, touch, or change even slightly in the PTR.

There are other forms of leveling.

Leveling in WoW is archaic and holding WoW back, no similar game in 2022 has this tedious infinite level cap expansion. Most either use an account wide level cap paragon progression system (you still have bars to fill), or use ilevel as vertical progression and just squish that, then have some sort of supplemental seasonal XP bar. The developers arent going to just endlessly extend level cap and squish down over and over. Honestly it's insane it went on as long as it did.

ESO and Destiny 2 both have better systems to replace leveling. They're probably going to use something along these lines.

[huth]

There are other forms of leveling.

Leveling in WoW is archaic and holding WoW back, no similar game in 2022 has this tedious infinite level cap expansion. Most either use an account wide level cap paragon progression system (you still have bars to fill), or use ilevel as vertical progression and just squish that, then have some sort of supplemental seasonal XP bar. The developers arent going to just endlessly extend level cap and squish down over and over. Honestly it's insane it went on as long as it did.

ESO and Destiny 2 both have better systems to replace leveling. They're probably going to use something along these lines.

It's an integral part of the gear design. They can't easily do away with it without changing gear design as well.

I'd disagree that old is inherently bad, as well. Leveling systems are still commonplace in RPGs because they work.

[Arcinatoss]

Soooo where is this "10.0 is in august 2023" source?

their ass, probably.

[Khaza-R]

There are other forms of leveling.

Leveling in WoW is archaic and holding WoW back, no similar game in 2022 has this tedious infinite level cap expansion. Most either use an account wide level cap paragon progression system (you still have bars to fill), or use ilevel as vertical progression and just squish that, then have some sort of supplemental seasonal XP bar. The developers arent going to just endlessly extend level cap and squish down over and over. Honestly it's insane it went on as long as it did.

ESO and Destiny 2 both have better systems to replace leveling. They're probably going to use something along these lines.

I could easily see them doing away with leveling. And actually I think the renown system was a test for it.

With scaling, leveling no longer serves any purpose other than to increase ilvl and gate certain content. Both of those things can be achieved by renown and already are in some ways in SL.

[Futhark]

As much as I'm irritated by Tinker discussions, making it a shaman skin would make a lot of sense. They deploy totems, emhance their weapons, shapeshit and equip shields. Mechanically it could support tinkers. We already have technologically minded goblins as shaman. Tinker could be a sort of literal deus ex machina with elementals instead of gods.

Elementally powered machinery. This reminds me of the Bathouse concept I came up for an eventual revamp.

Elements can be mapped to physical forces pretty easily:

Earth=gravity
Fire=temperature
Water=kinetics
Wind=electricity

[Fahrad Wagner]

Something that I find particularly interesting about the Dragonflight leak:

"Balor. Halfling race dealing with primordial fel enemies (think proto-demons, like what the Shadowlands creatures are to undead)."

Whereas Balor is another classic zone we have yet to explore, the mention of a halfling race is particularly interesting... especially since they are fighting proto-demons.

In the Irish mythology, Balor is the king of the Fomorians, a group of creatures describe as hideous (sometimes demonic) giants, warriors of chaos and destruction.

Now, we have yet to have an Ireland-inspired zone in the game (Kul'Tiras doesn't dive too much into the Celtic aspect of the Irish culture), and Blizzard has a history of copy-pasting real life mythology into the game, twisting it only a little.

So, the island of Balor being home to halflings (tall humans? small ettins? something else?) fighting giant proto-demons (mirroring Zereth Mortis proto death creatures?) is something I could see.

[draugril]

I think you've got it exactly, and they will allow some sort of class swap!

I wouldn't mind that at all. I have a few character-specific titles and whatnot that I wish were on other classes and characters...

[Vakir]

I'd like for there to be more explanation than just "something happened to Dalaran textures" than just adding it to the list of support.

What does MrGM mean?

Also didn't the necropolis CG have crazy chromatic abberations that indicate some kind of post-Photoshop work?

[Wangming]

Elements can be mapped to physical forces pretty easily:

Earth=gravity
Fire=temperature
Water=kinetics
Wind=electricity

Yeah also true.

[ro9ue]

It's an integral part of the gear design. They can't easily do away with it without changing gear design as well.

I'd disagree that old is inherently bad, as well. Leveling systems are still commonplace in RPGs because they work.

Leveling systems do work and work well. What you misread was that I'm saying the way WoW does it is archaic. If you play Destiny 2 or ESO for example, you can see how they still have "leveling" but it's with account-wide Champion Point systems (ESO) and Seasonal XP (D2). These are far superior by any metric.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I'd like for there to be more explanation than just "something happened to Dalaran textures" than just adding it to the list of support.

What does MrGM mean

Also didn't the necropolis CG have crazy chromatic abberations that indicate some kind of post-Photoshop work?

Northrend Dalaran textures were played with, we don't know more other than that as far as I am aware. @Marlamin do you have more Sir Birb?

[Raetary]

Since nobody posted it, Marla clarified its something about Northrend Dalaran:
https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1510643137487773706

[Lady Atia]

Bingo! /10char

This and the leak does say that the new campaigns will be about the Kirin Tor and Uncrowned among others so Dalaran would serve as a hub for both.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Something that I find particularly interesting about the Dragonflight leak:

"Balor. Halfling race dealing with primordial fel enemies (think proto-demons, like what the Shadowlands creatures are to undead)."

Whereas Balor is another classic zone we have yet to explore, the mention of a halfling race is particularly interesting... especially since they are fighting proto-demons.

In the Irish mythology, Balor is the king of the Fomorians, a group of creatures describe as hideous (sometimes demonic) giants, warriors of chaos and destruction.

Now, we have yet to have an Ireland-inspired zone in the game (Kul'Tiras doesn't dive too much into the Celtic aspect of the Irish culture), and Blizzard has a history of copy-pasting real life mythology into the game, twisting it only a little.

So, the island of Balor being home to halflings (tall humans? small ettins? something else?) fighting giant proto-demons (mirroring Zereth Mortis proto death creatures?) is something I could see.

I will also point out that in the Irish mythology, Ethniu, also referred to as Ethlinn, is the daugther of Balor.

Now, that could be the missing link to the origins of Ettins (and also connect with their links to the Twilight Hammer and Twilight dragons).

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ettin

[Vakir]

Since nobody posted it, Marla clarified its something about Northrend Dalaran:
https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1510643137487773706

Hm.

It's entirely possible that Northrend Dalaran gets a bump in the pre-patch due to Galakrond, another updated variable, and its proximity to Wyrmrest and it isn't necessarily related to evidence of Dalaran as a full time capital.

I can absolutely see a scenario where Galakrond wrecks Wyrmrest and it forces the flights to fall back to their ancestral home.

Still skeptical of the full leak.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I will also point out that in the Irish mythology, Ethniu, also referred to as Ethlinn, is the daugther of Balor.

Now, that could be the missing link to the origins of Ettins (and also connect with their links to the Twilight Hammer and Twilight dragons).

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ettin

And to finally complete my Ettin saga, Wowpedia states the following:

• According to Brann Bronzebeard, there is enough fossil evidence to theorize that the ettins evolved from ogres, but he suspects there might be a "missing link". Any fossil evidence was likely lost when Draenor was torn apart.[6]
• Drugon the Frostblood's dungeon journal entry goes against this, as it states that Drugon has been living in Highmountain for several ages before the Dark Portal even opened.[citation needed] [7] It is unknown if this is a simple error or a retcon of the ettins' origins.
• Chronicle Volume 2 does not mention ettins when going into detail about the lineage of the ogres. However, it also does not mention goren despite their proven association with the Breakers.

Which means Brann's theory about Ettins coming from ogres has been proven wrong, and this "partial" retcon might have been set up... in preparation for Balor, and the missing evolutionnary link of Ettins.

[Vakir]

One thing I've been chomping to post while in time out is the "armor textures" people keep attributing to Alextraza, are actually more in line with how underwear layers for the player race models are usually laid out. They're not stored the same way, but the underwear textures have popped up this way before with NPCs built on playermodels being used. Having extensively worked on editing player races, and these textures, I strongly believe these are not meant to be "armor" but underwear, and that would preclude a new race or allied race - or something like Demon Hunters or Death Knights, where races get extensive new skin options (these classes have had different underwear layers, most notable to see on DH).

Still definitely a similar style to hers, though.

Dragon race? Dragon race.

[ro9ue]

One thing I've been chomping to post while in time out is the "armor textures" people keep attributing to Alextraza, are actually more in line with how underwear layers for the player race models are usually laid out. They're not stored the same way, but the underwear textures have popped up this way before with NPCs built on playermodels being used. Having extensively worked on editing player races, and these textures, I strongly believe these are not meant to be "armor" but underwear, and that would preclude a new race or allied race - or something like Demon Hunters or Death Knights, where races get extensive new skin options (these classes have had different underwear layers, most notable to see on DH).

I actually think this is correct, when I saw the textures as well, I couldn't help but notice the Blood Elf sigil on it. I think they are going to replace the Blood Elf thongs with more full undergarments.

[Vakir]

I actually think this is correct, when I saw the textures as well, I couldn't help but notice the Blood Elf sigil on it. I think they are going to replace the Blood Elf thongs with more full undergarments.

That would be so hilariously disappointing that I almost support it.

[huth]

Leveling systems do work and work well. What you misread was that I'm saying the way WoW does it is archaic. If you play Destiny 2 or ESO for example, you can see how they still have "leveling" but it's with account-wide Champion Point systems (ESO) and Seasonal XP (D2). These are far superior by any metric.

And i'd argue that they aren't nearly as different as you claim them to be. Having a single level that gets extended indefinitely or starting from zero every time is not functionally different. Whether you use a per character system or not is heavily dependent on what you're trying to achieve with it. People are far to enamored with this idea that everything should be accountwide. I see no objective reason why that should be the case.

Claiming they are better by any metric is foolishness.