Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Le Conceptuel]

Honestly some Hyena accuracy would make it look less like a worgen with a weird fur pattern. Ears should be rounded and teeth should not be sharp, meant to tear flesh but blunt, meant to break bones. The face is actually more wolf than hyena.

And looking at them again I think they are missing a bit of grime and dirt. That white gnolls looks fresh off having a bath. Did someone take it to the yak wash?

And the "Sage" model just looks better.

I'd put that mostly to the pupil-less eyes and simple framing. The darker circles around the eyes make them look rounder and less emotive, and the paint on the snout makes it look thinner and more sinister. I could see blunt teeth or rounded ears working, but they'd have to be very well-executed—preserving shape language is important.

I don't think the model is too clean, really—WarCraft rarely illustrates grime and dirt to begin with. However, I suppose I could see that it's far too plain. I suppose stronger, darker highlights could help.

For blunted teeth, making them too large and wide would make them look too Disney-esque unless there were much effort put into making them jagged and disproportionate. I maintain the pupil-less eyes are the most important part. A thinner snout could help.

[SunspotAnims]

I don't mind furries whatsoever. I don't think that kind of style is right for a fantasy race that is meant to be menacing though.

The thing about gnolls is that they are historically low-level questing fodder, usually bandits, pirates, and goons to bigger bad guys. I think we can go in circles about whether gnolls should be menacing or are more appropriate as cartoony bad guys but it kinda just boils down to our own interpretation of what a gnoll should be. That's all this discussion ever was; trying to push our preferences using design terminology is a bit naive since a pro character artist can usually use the same terminology to tell us to buzz off.

[Le Conceptuel]

Imagine whining cause some dog people look a lil more cartoonish than what you wanted. Seriously, they're fodder mobs, cool tf down

Nobody's whining—we simply think it's a bad design choice that simply doesn't represent the race.

[Raetary]

Imagine whining cause some dog people look a lil more cartoonish than what you wanted. Seriously, they're fodder mobs, cool tf down

This is probably the most chill and constructive discussion this thread has seen in weeks, and you want it to stop?

[Cheezits]

There is a massive Bronze Dragon building in Thaldrazzus with closed doors, that looks suspiciously like a future raid portal.

As for the Gnolls: I don't think they fit the overall style of the Dragon Isles, and this feels more like prepping them to be integrated into a future Elwynn and Kalimdor where they WOULD fit the style.

I think they should add an "inbetween" of the casters and the default that looks a little more like the classic: hunched and angry. The regular version is great as an NPC race that you interact with, but how many Gnolls will you actually quest with?

[Le Conceptuel]

Actually, regarding @Nymrohd's idea about the teeth and my reservations, I think that taking from the old model could be a good idea. They already sort of did that—the yellow, blunted teeth in the front and the jagged, crooked pointy teeth off to the side is a very good way of doing it. The exposed gums, I now realize, also are important.

[SunspotAnims]

Nobody's whining—we simply think it's a bad design choice that simply doesn't represent the race.

I think one thing needs to be clarified here—just because you disagree with it does not mean it's a bad design choice. I hate to be "but that's just like your opinion man" but it really is just a matter of how you personally interpret a gnoll should look. If you disagree with the artist's interpretation of what gnolls should look like, that's fine, that's valid, but that does not mean it's a "bad design".

[Ferlion]

Someone over on the Scrolls of Lore discord did some minor photoshop work.

Before


After


It really is a matter of just giving a larger head.

[Makorus]

I don't understand where this "Gnolls used to very menacing and frightening" thing coming from?

The original models have like 10 polygons and 8bit textures. Things like teeth have to be exaggerated or else they wouldn't be visible at all. Case in point: People arguing that they didn't have pupils when they had pupils.

They certainly don't look "menacing" in this icon from WC3



Even in concept art they seem more "insane" rather than "menacing".

[Le Conceptuel]

My sister pitched in, too, and she pointed out something I didn't notice—its fur is too fluffy and soft-looking. Part of that is due to a lack of contrast along the lines, and another part is because it's not short enough. If the lines of the fur texture were shorter and darker, it would look better. Hyena fur ought to be more course and shorter, and the dark lines make it look less like a well-groomed show dog. If the texture were darker and had a coarser texture alone, that also could work.

[Ferlion]

I think that the Gnoll models will change drastically depending on lighting.

[Makorus]

It's fur is too fluffy and soft-looking based on... what?

Based on the old model?

[Raetary]

snip

Pretty sure when people are complaining about a larger head they meant slighty larger, not trippling it in size.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't understand where this "Gnolls used to very menacing and frightening" thing coming from?

The original models have like 10 polygons and 8bit textures. Things like teeth have to be exaggerated or else they wouldn't be visible at all. Case in point: People arguing that they didn't have pupils when they had pupils.

They certainly don't look "menacing" in this icon from WC3



Even in concept art they seem more "insane" rather than "menacing".

https://i.imgur.com/CjSkUA5.png

I’ve seen people say things like the old models had matted hair or spots of blood and dirt of them which is no where to be seen on the actual models, so I think it’s mostly from people adding there imagination to vague memory’s of the old models and constructing a image that never existed.

[Nymrohd]

My sister pitched in, too, and she pointed out something I didn't notice—its fur is too fluffy and soft-looking. Part of that is due to a lack of contrast along the lines, and another part is because it's not short enough. If the lines of the fur texture were shorter and darker, it would look better. Hyena fur ought to be more course and shorter, and the dark lines make it look less like a well-groomed show dog. If the texture were darker and had a coarser texture alone, that also could work.

Indeed hyena's fur is coarse and almost like bristles.

[Le Conceptuel]

Now I look at it, this model looks very good. This is a very good example of the direction I think the art ought to head in—it looks far more like traditional WarCraft to me and actually creates edges in the model that aren't curved over (notice how the ears actually look sharp). The fur texture is very good and rough, and the facial texture looks realistic without compromising on the art style.

[Nymrohd]

I’ve seen people say things like the old models had matted hair or spots of blood and dirt of them which is no where to be seen on the actual models, so I think it’s mostly from people adding there imagination to vague memory’s of the old models and constructing a image that never existed.

I think this is part of low definition models. We do project things in what we see, we built on what is there and through expectations. E.g. the old Hyena model has very yellow teeth so it does give you the impression of dirt.

[Le Conceptuel]

It's fur is too fluffy and soft-looking based on... what?

Based on the old model?

In this case, actual Hyenas.

[Nymrohd]

Now I look at it, this model looks very good. This is a very good example of the direction I think the art ought to head in—it looks far more like traditional WarCraft to me and actually creates edges in the model that aren't curved over (notice how the ears actually look sharp). The fur texture is very good and rough, and the facial texture looks realistic without compromising on the art style.

I like how the face is androgynous.

[Makorus]

In this case, actual Hyenas.

Gnolls are not hyenas.

Gnolls are gnolls.