1. #63921
    Got added to F&F Last week again, hopefully they sent another wave for F&F. Guess I am late to the show

  2. #63922
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Bolvar
    1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner
    Yet Calias husband knew who she was.

    They kept their relationship secret precisely because she was a princess, up to the point Calias mom found out.
    Who then was sympathetic enough to bless them and marry them in secret, with the promise to give him a noble rank after Arthas gets married to not piss off Terenas.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  3. #63923
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I don't think its ever specified where he's from. Although there's also no mention of him ever living anywhere but Stormwind.

    Either way, Calia was supposedly living Southshore in disguise with her husband and child from the fall of Lordaeron to when the Forsaken destroyed SS in Cataclysm. So their timelines don't sync up at all without significant retcons.

    If I had to guess, Calia's husband and child will likely be a whole different story arc in the future.
    Mara Fordragon was the High Clerist of Stormwind during the First War and fled to Lordaeron, becoming a patron of the refugees of Stormwind and is one of the heroes celebrated by the Scarlet Crusade. While we cannot know for sure, the timeline does match for her to be a relation of Bolvar which would mean he was also from Stormwind or at least was born to Stormwind refugees. Conservation of detail would have her be his mother tbh; a high ranking priest's son would be a natural choice for the Paladin experiment.
    She also had a title which makes her nobility. Which would make Bolvar nobility.

  4. #63924
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Yet Calias husband knew who she was.

    They kept their relationship secret precisely because she was a princess, up to the point Calias mom found out.
    Who then was sympathetic enough to bless them and marry them in secret, with the promise to give him a noble rank after Arthas gets married to not piss off Terenas.
    someone her father would never approve of. One of the footmen, that’s all the description we get, which makes some people wonder if there’s perhaps a connection between Calia, Bolvar and Taelia...but to describe Bolvar as just a footman in that time period...it’s not impossible, but I don’t think it really fits. Either way, Calia fell in love and after begging for a very long time, they were wed by a priestess blessing their union in the Light. When she was certain that she was carrying, she told her mother Lianne everything. She was furious of course, but could also tell that this was a true love and decided to help her daughter. Calia gave birth in the more remote parts of the kingdom. A beautiful little girl she could take care of for a few weeks before it was decided that her husband would raise the child, away from Lordaeron and ignorant of her birthright. When the time was right – when Arthas had finally married and produced an heir – they could acknowledge her daughter and perhaps elevate her husband to a nobleman’s status so that her name would be unsullied.

    That day never came. But the scourge surely did.
    Learn more:

    The events described above do not take place in-game, but you can read more about them in the novels Arthas: Rise of the Lich King and Before the Storm

  5. #63925
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    The events described above do not take place in-game, but you can read more about them in the novels Arthas: Rise of the Lich King and Before the Storm
    I read BtS, i just mixed up the timeline.

    And yes, you are right, Menethil mom found out after the wedding and pregnancy, i thought that happened before that.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  6. #63926
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I read BtS, i just mixed up the timeline.

    And yes, you are right, Menethil mom found out after the wedding and pregnancy, i thought that happened before that.
    Let's good Talia princess

  7. #63927
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    As for this, that already sort of happened—he tried to deal with it diplomatically. Given he was capable of persuading Xe'ra to let her live, I imagine Yrel would be a relative cakewalk.
    Xe'ra probably knew the only way to get to Illidan was through Turalyon, so she spared Alleria to not piss him off. In other circumstances I'm sure she'd just kill her.

  8. #63928
    If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates here (maps from before Vanilla are very much worthless in this regard, they are just concepts that were changed significantly in many other instances), then a new Teldrassil could be planted between Dragon Isles and Kalimdor, close to current Teldrassil. The zone could then be part of both Dragon Isles as a continent with a skybox used to show Kalimdor on the horizon AND then a copy of the zone could be placed on the Kalimdor map and be the Night Elf capital post Dragon Isles (with the Dragon Isles on the skybox).

  9. #63929
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates here (maps from before Vanilla are very much worthless in this regard, they are just concepts that were changed significantly in many other instances), then a new Teldrassil could be planted between Dragon Isles and Kalimdor, close to current Teldrassil. The zone could then be part of both Dragon Isles as a continent with a skybox used to show Kalimdor on the horizon AND then a copy of the zone could be placed on the Kalimdor map and be the Night Elf capital post Dragon Isles (with the Dragon Isles on the skybox).
    That seems unnecessarily complicated. Why would you need two "New Teldrassils"?

  10. #63930
    The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

  11. #63931
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.
    Well, the Alliance could certainly use some storylines that make them interesting that are not the consequence of the Horde.

  12. #63932
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    Xe'ra probably knew the only way to get to Illidan was through Turalyon, so she spared Alleria to not piss him off. In other circumstances I'm sure she'd just kill her.
    ??? Illidan had nothing to do with Turalyon. Xe'ra could not even know they'd meet. I don't get the spin that X'era is an evil mastermind. Her one act that is evil is against Illidan and that can be fully accounted to an obsession created over millenia due to the fatalistic nature of Light-based divination, something we see Velen also struggled with but overcame.
    And it would be a disappointment in storytelling if AU Yrel is depicted as unequivocally evil. The orcs of Draenor under Geyarah have no credibility. They look like a caricature of postmodernist morality; you are somehow supposed to take their side simply and only because they are the OTHER even though every complaint presented indirectly and thus through excessive bias from Yrel's side is perfectly in line with what we can expect from Draenor orcs; they HAVE caused the destruction of the ecosystem before, the Draenei have every right to be suspicious of them after an attempt at genocide yet somehow we are supposed to assume that they are the evil fascists which is a tempting narrative but far too heavy handed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    That seems unnecessarily complicated. Why would you need two "New Teldrassils"?
    So you can both have it in Dragon Isles and use it as an expansion zone AND have it in Kalimdor as a racial capital.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.
    What part of Turalyon, a man capable of challenging his commander to save his wife and able to work with a fel user who murdered said commander in front of him, makes people so convinced he is a Nazi is beyond me. Yeah he is white and religious. So?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    Well, the Alliance could certainly use some storylines that make them interesting that are not the consequence of the Horde.
    Interesting storylines would probably not be the exact same storylines the Horde already had.

  13. #63933
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post

    Judging by how they addressed anything else in game, it would be the most patronizing shit ever. Let's not. Leave that to writers competent at social issues.
    Like I said, I wouldn't trust Danuser with it. Granted I wouldn't trust him with writing instructions for a packet of instant ramen, but that's beside the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post

    What part of Turalyon, a man capable of challenging his commander to save his wife and able to work with a fel user who murdered said commander in front of him, makes people so convinced he is a Nazi is beyond me. Yeah he is white and religious. So?
    Consuming decades of WoW storytelling nearly exclusively made them numb to complex thought. For them it goes like this.

    1. In AU Draenor Yrel is evil somehow.
    2. Yrel worships the Light.
    3. The Light is evil.
    4. Turalyon also worships the Light.
    5. Turalyion must be evil.

  14. #63934
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    ??? Illidan had nothing to do with Turalyon. Xe'ra could not even know they'd meet.
    Huh? Have you even played the Legion campaign?

    Xe'ra has Turalyon send the Light's Heart to Azeroth. Her core part. It had to be Turalyon to show the Azerothians that the Army of the Light exists and is still fighting. Then we'd travel with the Light's Heart to discover different moments of Illidan's past.

    Like... the process was: Turalyon, you need to bring Illidan to me. Take the Light's Heart and send it to Azeroth. It will help guide them to me and make them understand why he's so important and needs to be found. Also, manifest yourself through it for extra trust and motivation for others to find you. Alleria? Uh... Ok, I'll spare her (because otherwise you won't do my bidding).

    Do you really think cosmic beings like Naaru have any care about mortal's love? What makes you believe that she would give a damn that the Void's (the Light's greatest enemy) apprentice is her devoted worshipper's wife? It's very obvious she's spared her only to maintain the plan of obtaining Illidan. IF Illidan underwent the transformation and Xe'ra succeeded, you can be sure Alleria would be murdered moments later.

  15. #63935
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    Do you really think cosmic beings like Naaru have any care about mortal's love? What makes you believe that she would give a damn that the Void's (the Light's greatest enemy) apprentice is her devoted worshipper's wife? It's very obvious she's spared her only to maintain the plan of obtaining Illidan. IF Illidan underwent the transformation and Xe'ra succeeded, you can be sure Alleria would be murdered moments later.
    I mean it's very obvious to you because that is the pattern you are trying to see.

  16. #63936
    Guys, look who wrote that post. I thought it was a serious post for like 5 seconds then I saw who wrote it.

  17. #63937
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.
    If they do go this route then I hope they don't try to give Alleria a pass. She's just as extreme, if not even worse, than he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Mara Fordragon was the High Clerist of Stormwind during the First War and fled to Lordaeron, becoming a patron of the refugees of Stormwind and is one of the heroes celebrated by the Scarlet Crusade. While we cannot know for sure, the timeline does match for her to be a relation of Bolvar which would mean he was also from Stormwind or at least was born to Stormwind refugees. Conservation of detail would have her be his mother tbh; a high ranking priest's son would be a natural choice for the Paladin experiment.
    She also had a title which makes her nobility. Which would make Bolvar nobility.
    If the Scarlet story ever does resurge, I would love for it to explore this and the other "heroes" of the Crusade. Between that and this whole false heir to Lordaeron thing it could be a really interesting arc.

  18. #63938
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The Occam's Razor option in this situation is that the things that all look like ducks, walk like ducks, talk like ducks, and are explicitly different colonies of the same duck empire who decided to use new names for their new duck empires are all still just sorts of duck. Just because you can have a museum exhibit that has "Muscovy", "Blue-winged Teal", and "Mallard" labeled doesn't make them not different types of ducks.

    Blood Elves, High Elves, and Void Elves are distinct groups that are explicitly labeled as their respective races, even when they both appear "in the same battle" like in Suramar. But the only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is that Blood Elves are High Elves who lived in Silvermoon and changed their name after the Scourge came through. The only difference between Blood Elves and Void Elves is that VE are Blood or High Elves who have been infused by void magic. They are all just different types of High Elves.

    Does the fact that Alliance-associated, non-void infused ones still get labeled "High Elves" somehow make the other two not still High Elves? Of course not, they're called that because they are the group that hasn't renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified group. The same way that the aqir who are just called "Aqir" are the ones who have not renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified empire. The fact that none of the High/Blood Elves infused with void magic and following under Umbric and Alleria are called "High Elf" or "Blood elf" again, and are just called "Void Elves" now doesn't change the nature of what they are, anymore than Draenei, Krokul, Man'ari, Lightforged or Lost Ones all being distinct groups who often get called just their associated term cease to just be different sorts of Eredar.

    If you have a word, "Aqir" which refers to giant, sentient insectoids spawned from the old gods... I don't know why you'd pretend that different groups of that exact species starting their own kingdoms or, over tens of thousands of years, having slightly different shell shapes or mandibles are now somehow not still a type of that species of giant, sentient insectoid spawned from the old gods.
    I also think that the entire family is called "Aqir" for hunter taming regardless of it being an Qiraji wasp, Mantid Kunchong or Nerubian... whatever Hunters can tame from them.

  19. #63939
    OK so far we have the following changes
    New style of talent trees
    Revamped zone rep
    Revamped flying
    Revamped professions
    Revamped ui

    Does it need to have a new engine and a reset or can this count as WoW 2 because after 4 years of the same gameplay it certainly feels like it

  20. #63940
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates
    The devs already confirmed in the Judgehype interview that the Dragon Isles are to the Northeast of known landmasses. A capital doesn't need to exist on the vanilla map. Blizzard can easily find a way to restrict low-levels from entering areas and have it be part of an expansion. Or just not have it be a capital city in the traditional sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Does it need to have a new engine and a reset or can this count as WoW 2 because after 4 years of the same gameplay it certainly feels like it
    The WoW engine gets upgraded all the time. This also would be WoW 3 or 4 (or even higher) because this isn't the first time Blizzard has re-invented things to keep stuff fresh.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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