1. #65061
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Yeah still not buying it, just seems like more whinging.
    Oh, yeah, I kinda forgot that every negative opinion is by default a whinging. Cool then, whatever I guess?

  2. #65062
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Couldn't agree more. The general idea of an artifact that holds immense power, needs to be collected before the bad guys take it, that later serves as some sort of a key to defeat the final villian feels to some degree lame and definitely uninspired.
    Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".

  3. #65063
    I think a simple issue that people will have with Dragonflight is that this is the Aspects story. And if we get too involved in it, it just means that they probably too weak to deserve this power.

    It will be quite complicated to justify us having to be there for them when we don't really need these behemoths to gain more power especially when one is doomed to fall into madness and another has always felt superior to humanoid civilisations and toyed with them during mop right after cleansing his own race. Besides the power we are about to restore to them will let them curb the reality as they wish.

    I have yet to peak at the scenari that have been already tested and would rather wait for them to hit live servers. But if we do indeed go into this kind of direction, there might be a good part of the story that would have been a better be told in a book rather than in game.

    I'm very excited about this expansion but reading here that there will be pillars of creation type of artefacts to fetch in each zones doesn't resonate well with me there, that's not the high fantasy writing I'm pursuing.
    Last edited by Skildar; 2022-08-05 at 06:50 AM. Reason: full of typos

  4. #65064
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    I think a simple issue that people will have with Dragonflight is that this is the Aspects story. And if we get too involved in it, it just means that they probably too weak to deserve this power.

    It will be quite complicated to justify us having to be there for them when we don't really need these behemoths to gain more power especially when one is doomed to fall into madness and another has always felt superior to humanoid civilisations and toyed with them during mop right after cleansing his own race. Besides the power we are about to restore to them will let them curb the reality as they wish.

    I have yet to peak at the scenari that have been already tested and would rather wait for them to hit live servers. But if we do indeed go into this kind of direction, there might be a good part of the story that would have been a better be told in a book rather than in game.

    I'm very excited about this expansion but reading here that there will be pillars of creation type of artefacts to fetch in rach zones don't resonate well with me there, that's not the hogh fantasy writing I'm pursuing.
    See, I am not sure we are about to restore their power, at least not in the form it used to have. Most of the power of the flights was concentrated on the Aspects. I think Blizzard might move away from that with the Aspects being first among equals; the strongest of their flights but not by far. I.e. the power will be disseminated across the flight.
    So I think they will get back their fertility and individuals will all be a bit more powerful than before.

    Remember during Cata the Aspects were at FULL strength (since Rhonin destroyed the original Dragon Soul in Day of the Dragon, necessitating the inane time travel plot). They were still not a match for either Chromatus or Deathwing. Getting them to full power does not solve anything if they have to face Chromatus again down the line (Galakrond is by far the weaker threat since he was defeated by five reasonably intelligent proto drakes and Tyr). The solution is not Aspects. It's Dragonflights. Then if a couple go insane we can kill/capture them vs an Aspect going insane and being stronger than their entire flight combined.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-08-05 at 05:19 AM.

  5. #65065
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    See, I am not sure we are about to restore their power, at least not in the form it used to have. Most of the power of the flights was concentrated on the Aspects. I think Blizzard might move away from that with the Aspects being first among equals; the strongest of their flights but not by far. I.e. the power will be disseminated across the flight.
    So I think they will get back their fertility and individuals will all be a bit more powerful than before.

    Remember during Cata the Aspects were at FULL strength (since Rhonin destroyed the original Dragon Soul in Day of the Dragon, necessitating the inane time travel plot). They were still not a match for either Chromatus or Deathwing. Getting them to full power does not solve anything if they have to face Chromatus again down the line (Galakrond is by far the weaker threat since he was defeated by five reasonably intelligent proto drakes and Tyr). The solution is not Aspects. It's Dragonflights. Then if a couple go insane we can kill/capture them vs an Aspect going insane and being stronger than their entire flight combined.
    You're 100% right, there is no need to empower a single dragon for each flight if there a way to empower the flight as a whole.

  6. #65066
    Anyone else find it funny that the "Age of Mortals" lasted all of 5 years before it goes right back to the age of dragons? lol

  7. #65067
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can I say this thing with the Oathstones feels lazy to me? Every zone is about a flight charging up their oathstone, it's cheap fantasy story.
    Doesn't sound that different from finding the four Pillars of Creation in the four Legion zones.

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  8. #65068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Doesn't sound that different from finding the four Pillars of Creation in the four Legion zones.
    Yes, that's precisely why its lazy and uninmaginative.
    It's a rehashed plotline, for the third time.


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  9. #65069
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsirk View Post
    Anyone else find it funny that the "Age of Mortals" lasted all of 5 years before it goes right back to the age of dragons? lol
    Not if the new form the dragons' power takes IS mortal. Maybe we can empower them back, restore their fertility but they no longer live for millenia.

    Really I find it crazy how half the playable races in WoW easily can manage a couple of millenia if not more; dragons living long is a given. Elves live long as well but most elves in fantasy are long-lived, not immortal like the Night Elves or living for millenia like the high elves (we have canonical blood elves who were alive during the exile . . .). Then we have the Draenei, do we even know any draenei that died of old age? Unclear on how long Zandalari, dwarves or gnomes live. I think it's the problem with wanting to tell a story that spans millenia but also wanting to keep a large part of your roster stable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Yes, that's precisely why its lazy and uninmaginative.
    It's a rehashed plotline, for the third time.
    But apparently pointing that out is "whinging"

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".
    There is nothing wrong with visiting classic plotlines and tropes. Just don't do it multiple times in a row, that's all I am saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    This is literally the very first thing that comes to mind, hence I'm not surprised that your fan-fics from your teenage years resolved around that theme.
    Hey it wasn't a fanfic it was a two year long Forgotten Realms campaign

  10. #65070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Yes, that's precisely why its lazy and uninmaginative.
    It's a rehashed plotline, for the third time.
    Third time? Legion, DF and...?

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  11. #65071
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Third time? Legion, DF and...?
    We just had Zovaal collect all the Sigils. And then after he collected all the Sigils, we made new ones in a matter of days and collected them ourselves because why not?

    I know, I am trying to forget Shadowland's plot as well.

  12. #65072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Third time? Legion, DF and...?
    Shadowlands, where we ran around getting the covenant sigils.


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  13. #65073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    We just had Zovaal collect all the Sigils. And then after he collected all the Sigils, we made new ones in a matter of days and collected them ourselves because why not?

    I know, I am trying to forget Shadowland's plot as well.
    Ah fair, I suppose that's somewhat the same. And yeah, let's just treat SL as a fever dream. Thankfully it seems as if Blizzard kinda wants to do the same by largely ignoring it in DF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Shadowlands, where we ran around getting the covenant sigils.
    Right right, gotta admit I completely forgot about that since it was so utterly pointless.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  14. #65074
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    ....If they intend to restore their former powers they need to explain it somehow. So thats not cheap.
    It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

    Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.
    unclench your jaw

  15. #65075
    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

    Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.
    Well if it was in the Dragon Isles, they could not access them till now so that's solved.

  16. #65076
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well if it was in the Dragon Isles, they could not access them till now so that's solved.
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
    unclench your jaw

  17. #65077
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Yeah still not buying it, just seems like more whinging. Somehow the concept of collecting 5- or 7 or whatever things to lead to something big event happening or what not isn't a bad idea. Weather its stones,gems, pillars or whatever.
    Okay, so you've edited the comment to provide some reasoning. Now, somehow the concept of collecting the artifacts that lead to a big event is a bad idea to me - and yeah, whether it's stones, gems, pillars or whatever else.
    It's the symptom of poor, formulaic writing, lack of creativity and taking the path of least resistence. Now - as I already mentioned - it can work and usually does. But it doesn't change the idea, that themes like this one might feel uninspiring and unambitious. It's like superhero movies - they're okay, they are usually fun, but it doesn't change the fact, that they are not even remotely close to ambitious cinematography.
    Nevertheless, we could go like this all day long and it's pretty much counterproductive I think. It's just my opinion, I do not set it down as a fact. You come here, flip the board upside down, and calli it "whinging".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Hey it wasn't a fanfic it was a two year long Forgotten Realms campaign
    Damn, didn't mean to offend; hope it was fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".
    Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.

  18. #65078
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Damn, didn't mean to offend; hope it was fun
    I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
    The Dragons themselves seem to have sealed it until the time came for them to go back. They could not get back in until Stoneboi lit up the beacon.

  19. #65079
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

    Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.
    They did help us ins BfA against N'Zoth though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

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    The Dragons themselves seem to have sealed it until the time came for them to go back. They could not get back in until Stoneboi lit up the beacon.
    Yeah they clearly need to do more foreshadowing again. Stuff like the Jailer or now the sudden Oathstones feel like "Harry Potter" level of writing (where every book something new was introduced at the start that was the mcguffin to conclude the story at the end of each book without prior seeding so you didn't really had to know the prior books or in WoW's case the expansion I guess).
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-08-05 at 08:43 AM.

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  20. #65080
    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
    The announcement cinematic starts with 'let the land slumber, hidden even from our own eyes'.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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