Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Xilurm]

Not really all that unusual. The United Kingdom spent almost the entirety of 1750-1925 at war with someone, somewhere. It's not like there wasn't still shit tons of war between WWI and WWII in eastern and southeastern Europe. France spent almost 15 years at war with everyone nearby under Napolean, while the Ottomans fought everyone else nearby and the Russians kept attacking everyone, and then before anything could settle down the French came back and invaded spain and then the Ottomans and Russians went back to fighting each other again.

Azeroth's wars are on a larger scale because the players aren't small regions of the world, they're planet-level or interplanetary forces, but it's really not very unusual for there to be constant couple-year wars, especially in a time period pre-industrialization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%E2%80%931908)

Even so, it's not like people that live all over Azeroth are constantly getting attacked or anything. They are aware there are wars when they happen but they are not in any immediate danger. What was the last world spanning threat? The scourge invasion during the Shadowlands pre-patch. Before that? Did Legion have a demon invasion? I wasn't playing at the time.

[Gurahk]

Even so, it's not like people that live all over Azeroth are constantly getting attacked or anything. They are aware there are wars when they happen but they are not in any immediate danger. What was the last world spanning threat? The scourge invasion during the Shadowlands pre-patch. Before that? Did Legion have a demon invasion? I wasn't playing at the time.

The Legion was invading all of Azeroth.

[Hitei]

Even so, it's not like people that live all over Azeroth are constantly getting attacked or anything. They are aware there are wars when they happen but they are not in any immediate danger. What was the last world spanning threat? The scourge invasion during the Shadowlands pre-patch. Before that? Did Legion have a demon invasion? I wasn't playing at the time.

At the start of the invasion they used hit and run tactics with their warp ships. Before that WoD was pretty contained to the Blasted Lands, MoP was contained to Pandaria and the region around Orgrimmar.

[Xilurm]

The Legion was invading all of Azeroth.

That makes sense, shame it wasn't shown.

[Atriel]

That makes sense, shame it wasn't shown.

It WAS shown. There was the Legion Invasion event prior to Legion launch, and all the various class hall/artifact quests that took you around Azeroth to fight the Legion.

[Xilurm]

It WAS shown. There was the Legion Invasion event prior to Legion launch, and all the various class hall/artifact quests that took you around Azeroth to fight the Legion.

So like the Scourge invasions of SL and Wrath. My point still stands, the average Azerothian doesn't experience too many things unless they are really big like the scourge or the burning legion. Or Deathwing.

[Gurahk]

So like the Scourge invasions of SL and Wrath. My point still stands, the average Azerothian doesn't experience too many things unless they are really big like the scourge or the burning legion. Or Deathwing.

Or MoP with Garrosh tearing a faction in half.

[Alanar]

I don't disagree with your points at all. I think there's merits to both takes.

Its nice to have more freedoms in a system where player characters are more user defined. Sand trolls are a good example of this. They had zero defined explanation how they were a player character and it was up to the player to define (if they even wanted) how they were apart of the Horde.

By contrast though, an MMO is inheritently a shared space. If you apply too much freedom everything just goes wild. Your lovely crafted =, lore-friendly Priestess of the Moon for example, has to share a space with a mechagnome who thinks he's Mobile Suit Gundam Wing. There's a certain point where adding too much freedom nullifies the choices of other players. I can understand some of the appreciation for more defined roles.

Yes, you're picturing it well.

I think it's just scary for me to think about a world, especially in wow were they would have to lift restriction or just throw out things in lore to make room for player interpretations. I do think tho, that character customization is a tricky one. As it turns out, many peole care for the tags, race descriptions and obviously the package that comes with a race etc. While some get the fyoi treatment, some don't, while they would be equal to us in terms of status, numbers what ever.

So it feels a little unfair/lazy even, to me sometimes. Ngl I always liked Sandtrolls since vanilla in ZF, good stuff. Heard about the skin color, looked for some quests or ingame ref... nothing. I didn't like there was no acknowledgement of them at all and I wasn't sure they joined for a good time. I wouldn't have liked a HM tauren situation, where it's just the same race, but with x. But I would have liked some quest to explain their status. You know.. DING you unlocked x achievement would have been an option as well. No beards included. When thinking about it, I can still get a little bitter over it as this was just one example.

[Harbour]

Expectation: Turalyon will be an interesting villain and good foil to Anduin.
Reality: Turalyon will just die cause of old age, and throne will be served for Anduin like a mommy cake.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Expectation: Turalyon will be an interesting villain and good foil to Anduin.
Reality: Turalyon will just die cause of old age, and throne will be served for Anduin like a mommy cake.

Making Turalyon a villain is just dumb and a waste of his character. Granted I want Anduin to stop moping and go back on the throne to but........


I still maintain Turalyon is being setup for a future plot.

[huth]

Not really all that unusual. The United Kingdom spent almost the entirety of 1750-1925 at war with someone, somewhere. It's not like there wasn't still shit tons of war between WWI and WWII in eastern and southeastern Europe. France spent almost 15 years at war with everyone nearby under Napolean, while the Ottomans fought everyone else nearby and the Russians kept attacking everyone, and then before anything could settle down the French came back and invaded spain and then the Ottomans and Russians went back to fighting each other again.

Azeroth's wars are on a larger scale because the players aren't small regions of the world, they're planet-level or interplanetary forces, but it's really not very unusual for there to be constant couple-year wars, especially in a time period pre-industrialization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%E2%80%931908)

While technically true, a lot of that time didn't see any actual fighting. The wars in WoW have been vastly more active affairs.

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Honestly its been one of my issues with the story (one of many issues really). Some of it following close behind makes sense but others...even with just a year or two in between, Azeroth's seen so much in just over three decades.

It gets a little absurd.

It's not even a year or two between, since the events of an expansion don't happen in the space of a (few) days, but over a span of months. Generally, most expansions till now have seen maybe a month or two of calm before the next one hit off.

[Alanar]

Making Turalyon a villain is just dumb and a waste of his character. Granted I want Anduin to stop moping and go back on the throne to but........


I still maintain Turalyon is being setup for a future plot.

Man, you can go so many ways with him... you just like him and don't want him to die, I get it.

But he doesn't need to die, to still make use of him or any of the many light shenanigans. Light puppet, Turalyon Xe'ras hand, champion, will? Xe'ra, Yrel, Scarlet crusade, Grommash?you name it. You know there are actually a lot of people who find those hooks to be interesting.

But come on.. him slowly becoming more fanatical over time, starting to demand odd things.. Alleria getting suspicious etc. We know Gilneas will be back in alliance hands soon, so Greymane is probably off going there. Meaning.. Turalyon is now alone in stormwind. ;p

It's starting to become a meme almost, but it still sounds interesting to me ngl

[huth]

Man, you can go so many ways with him... you just like him and don't want him to die, I get it.

But he doesn't need to die, to still make use of him or any cool light shenanigans, light puppet, Xe'ras hand, champion? you name it.
Xe'ra, Yrel, Scarlet crusade, Grommash? There are actually a lot of people who find those hooks to be interesting.

Not sure why so many want him to be a villain. IMO he'd make much more sense leading a moderate Light faction in a Light vs. Void scenario, while the fanatics are hostile to everybody who doesn't follow "The Vision".

[Alanar]

Not sure why so many want him to be a villain. IMO he'd make much more sense leading a moderate Light faction in a Light vs. Void scenario, while the fanatics are hostile to everybody who doesn't follow "The Vision".

I don't care either, but isn't it obvious where it all started tho? it started with Xe'ra and her approach to Illidan. Knowing Turalyon is basically praying to her, people were instantly questioning Turalyon. How devoted is he? was he converted? Then him becoming the replacement for Anduin, giving him sorta free reign obviously got the theories flowing.

I mean, some of them were pretty wild.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

lmao I just don't like characters being wasted and this whole Light fanatics storyline in general but that is where things are going and well I want to asvoid being a broken record. Its not gonna surprise me if Turalyon doesn't yield the Stormwind throne if that happens.

[Makabreska]

Man, you can go so many ways with him... you just like him and don't want him to die, I get it.

But he doesn't need to die, to still make use of him or any of the many light shenanigans. Light puppet, Turalyon Xe'ras hand, champion, will? Xe'ra, Yrel, Scarlet crusade, Grommash?you name it. You know there are actually a lot of people who find those hooks to be interesting.

But come on.. him slowly becoming more fanatical over time, starting to demand odd things.. Alleria getting suspicious etc. We know Gilneas will be back in alliance hands soon, so Greymane is probably off going there. Meaning.. Turalyon is now alone in stormwind. ;p

It's starting to become a meme almost, but it still sounds interesting to me ngl

Every time I see someone advocating Turalyon going evil, I picture a Horde player still salty about Garrosh/Sylvanas. Just like with some still wanting Siege of SW. I just don't see it as a genuine want to spice up the story, but rather as a some kind of a weird "faction justice" thingy.

[Nymrohd]

Knowing Turalyon is basically praying to her, people were instantly questioning Turalyon. How devoted is he? was he converted?

But we already had answers to this. Willing to question her to save his wife, willing to work with the man who murdered her. That is not the story of a fanatic. A fanatic would be questioning his wife that had not seen for hundreds of years due to her ties with the wife; not work with her while she is openly using the Void. A fanatic would have continued with his attack on Illidan instead of immediately stopping at the first prompt by Velen and at least detained him after; not stand right next to him and continue with shared plans.

Turalyon would be a great character to forge an initial alliance with Yrel if she comes, try to advocate for the Light and her Crusade but immediately turn on her when she turns on his wife or commits atrocities. If there is a Light vs Void campaign, Turalyon has perfectly set himself up to be a moderate that wants us to all work together against the greater threats.

If anything the problem is that while the Light vs Void seems to be a central struggle for Warcraft, the Horde has been given almost nothing to work with there. They recently got Calia but I doubt Forsaken players will ever embrace her. They completely failed to capitalize on Zabra, making him SHADOW ffs in the priest hall instead of showing how any race can follow the Light. While Natalie Seline is a great character she immediately robs the spotlight from the previous leadership of the Church of the Forgotten Shadow like Aethalyste. We did get Geyarah who will be a central character Horde side against the Light but has no ties to the Void (and if anyone is a fanatic, she is). So when the Light vs Void happens we will once again have an expansion where Alliance characters will be front and center and the Horde will have no one to relate to.

[Lady Atia]

But we already had answers to this. Willing to question her to save his wife, willing to work with the man who murdered her. That is not the story of a fanatic.

But the same can easily be said about Garrosh/Sylvanas. If they want him to become a boss, he will become a boss.

[Makabreska]

But we already had answers to this. Willing to question her to save his wife, willing to work with the man who murdered her. That is not the story of a fanatic.

I think he (and others) will get straight out half MC'd, if it comes to this.

[Nymrohd]

But the same can easily be said about Garrosh/Sylvanas. If they want him to become a boss, he will become a boss.

Yeah no, the same cannot be said in any way. Every question that could be raised about Turalyon was answered in the same scene in which was raised always showing him as moderate. Garrosh had only one instance of being moderate and that was a miscommunication; Sylvanas needed a book to reorient her character because every other source was against her being in any way moderate.

I wish they were moderate, really do. Wish the Horde had a viable story with them. But that's what happened and your headcanon cannot fix that.

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I think he (and others) will get straight out half MC'd, if it comes to this.

I mean that would be cool as well if we did not JUST have that storyline with Anduin.