Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Worldshaper]

No more space travelling or cosmic expansions, please.

11.0 - World Revamp (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms). Perhaps a few new islands previously missing, just to add something new.

12.0 - Vanilla/MoP style expansion in that we do something completely new and explore lore we haven't seen before. I'm thinking we travel to the other side of Azeroth and discover a new continent where no one has gone before. (Except for all those missing sailors.) I know Dragonflight has a bit of this "MoP chill" going on already, but I'm sure the expansion will quickly escalate due to all the dragons and the potential that brings. For 12.0, I'm talking a brand new corner of the WoW universe (although still on Azeroth). New peoples, new kingdoms, new biomes. Like discovering America for the Europeans.

13.0 - Underground expansion, full of caves beneath Azeroth's surface. Crystals, Nerubians, machines, underground biomes, etc.

14.0 - ??? I guess at this point I could accept an expansion where we explore more lore about Elune or something, even if it takes us off-world. But I'd prefer something like a revamped Northrend or an all-new continent on Azeroth.

[Annihilas]

No more space travelling or cosmic expansions, please.

11.0 - World Revamp (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms). Perhaps a few new islands previously missing, just to add something new.

12.0 - Vanilla/MoP style expansion in that we do something completely new and explore lore we haven't seen before. I'm thinking we travel to the other side of Azeroth and discover a new continent where no one has gone before. (Except for all those missing sailors.) I know Dragonflight has a bit of this "MoP chill" going on already, but I'm sure the expansion will quickly escalate due to all the dragons and the potential that brings. For 12.0, I'm talking a brand new corner of the WoW universe (although still on Azeroth). New peoples, new kingdoms, new biomes. Like discovering America for the Europeans.

13.0 - Underground expansion, full of caves beneath Azeroth's surface. Crystals, Nerubians, machines, underground biomes, etc.

14.0 - ??? I guess at this point I could accept an expansion where we explore more lore about Elune or something, even if it takes us off-world. But I'd prefer something like a revamped Northrend or an all-new continent on Azeroth.

Outland happened after Vanilla... So what's wrong with K'aresh?

[Makabreska]

No more space travelling or cosmic expansions, please.

11.0 - World Revamp (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms). Perhaps a few new islands previously missing, just to add something new.

Ye, sure. Blizz already siad they will make a cosmic expansion sooner or later, and DF with it's traditional fantasy stuff is to let us rest between them.

12.0 - Vanilla/MoP style expansion in that we do something completely new and explore lore we haven't seen before. I'm thinking we travel to the other side of Azeroth and discover a new continent where no one has gone before. (Except for all those missing sailors.) I know Dragonflight has a bit of this "MoP chill" going on already, but I'm sure the expansion will quickly escalate due to all the dragons and the potential that brings. For 12.0, I'm talking a brand new corner of the WoW universe (although still on Azeroth). New peoples, new kingdoms, new biomes. Like discovering America for the Europeans.

As you said, DF is MoP 2.0 in many regards. Brand new corner of the Azeroth.

13.0 - Underground expansion, full of caves beneath Azeroth's surface. Crystals, Nerubians, machines, underground biomes, etc.

Hints tell us that 10.1 will be underground patch. Doubt they will do entire underground expansion.

14.0 - ??? I guess at this point I could accept an expansion where we explore more lore about Elune or something, even if it takes us off-world. But I'd prefer something like a revamped Northrend or an all-new continent on Azeroth.

It is pretty much guaranteed we will see cosmic motifs much sooner than 14.0. Maybe not in 11.00 but in 12.00 sure.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Ye, sure.

It's comiiiiiiing, don't you see?

[Makabreska]

It's comiiiiiiing, don't you see?

I see only darkness.

[Worldshaper]

Ye, sure. Blizz already siad they will make a cosmic expansion sooner or later, and DF with it's traditional fantasy stuff is to let us rest between them.



As you said, DF is MoP 2.0 in many regards. Brand new corner of the Azeroth.



Hints tell us that 10.1 will be underground patch. Doubt they will do entire underground expansion.



It is pretty much guaranteed we will see cosmic motifs much sooner than 14.0. Maybe not in 11.00 but in 12.00 sure.

DF is similar to MoP in some regards. It's a bit of a breather. It's an island cloaked in mist being accessible for the first time in ages. It has roots in the Sundering. It seems like it focuses on a lot of chill aspects of the game, like Professions, races like the Tuskar, etc.

However, I am a strict believer in the trilogy of trilogies theory.

TBC, WotLK and Cata were the original expansions, and they each delved into the themes of The Burning Legion (Fel magic), the Scourge and Lich King (Death magic), and Dragons/Revamp/Elements/Old Gods (Shadow magic).

Then we had MoP which was a breather, and in a way a return to Vanilla's chill experience and open-ended story. Focusing on the world.

After that, we've had several expansions in a row to build and conclude two sets of trilogies.

WoD -> Legion followed up on TBC to conclude the Fel magic trilogy.

BfA -> Shadowlands followed up on WotLK to conclude the Death magic trilogy.

Now it's:

DF -> 11.0 will follow up on Cata to conclude the Shadow magic trilogy.

Then 12.0 will be a bit like Vanilla and MoP again.

There is a chance they changed things up and bundled MoP with Cata in the Shadow magic trilogy, because MoP was so out of place. So we could perhaps consider the Void magic trilogy as a quadrilogy instead. That means 12.0 could be something entirely new. Heck, since it follows up on 11.0 and a World Revamp (probably) it might even be the end of expansions as we know it. Maybe the game will just be live service with Season Passes and major annual content drops or something.

[Makabreska]

However, I am a strict believer in the trilogy of trilogies theory.

You lost me there. Trying to find patterns with zero evidence where there are only coincidences and decision made based on what would people and devs prefer at any given moment.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I see only darkness.

The World Revamp dream never dies my child, we are the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Lady Atia]

DF is similar to MoP in some regards. It's a bit of a breather. It's an island cloaked in mist being accessible for the first time in ages. It has roots in the Sundering. It seems like it focuses on a lot of chill aspects of the game, like Professions, races like the Tuskar, etc.

However, I am a strict believer in the trilogy of trilogies theory.

TBC, WotLK and Cata were the original expansions, and they each delved into the themes of The Burning Legion (Fel magic), the Scourge and Lich King (Death magic), and Dragons/Revamp/Elements/Old Gods (Shadow magic).

Then we had MoP which was a breather, and in a way a return to Vanilla's chill experience and open-ended story. Focusing on the world.

After that, we've had several expansions in a row to build and conclude two sets of trilogies.

WoD -> Legion followed up on TBC to conclude the Fel magic trilogy.

BfA -> Shadowlands followed up on WotLK to conclude the Death magic trilogy.

Now it's:

DF -> 11.0 will follow up on Cata to conclude the Shadow magic trilogy.

Then 12.0 will be a bit like Vanilla and MoP again.

There is a chance they changed things up and bundled MoP with Cata in the Shadow magic trilogy, because MoP was so out of place. So we could perhaps consider the Void magic trilogy as a quadrilogy instead. That means 12.0 could be something entirely new. Heck, since it follows up on 11.0 and a World Revamp (probably) it might even be the end of expansions as we know it. Maybe the game will just be live service with Season Passes and major annual content drops or something.

They didn't do trilogies though. The original plot or "first book" was pretty much Vanilla to Cata (yes I know, lich king fans will rage but classic literally set up the scourge, old gods, elementals and dragons). MoP kickstarts the next plot which is about horde and alliance aswell as the burning legion (since they teased it during the wrathion legendary chapters), and after Shadowlands the whole Jailer plot. One could argue that legion was the finale but it pretty much led into BfA which also led into Shadowlands and you had the Sylvanas plot set up as soon as Cata/MoP/Legion anyways. Now Dragonflight seems to be what MoP was for the "second book" - a breather expansion to a new unexplored mysterious land that sets up the next book's arc - but still, that would make it the first chapter of book three.

[Worldshaper]

You lost me there. Trying to find patterns with zero evidence where there are only coincidences and decision made based on what would people and devs prefer at given moment.

There's always a chance that I am wrong, but it is unlikely.

TBC, WoD and Legion are all primarily focused around the Burning Legion as the main threat, from the cosmic force of Disorder and Fel magic. Recurring characters were people like Velen, Turalyon, Illidan, and so on, and we visited other worlds in each (Outland/Draenor and Argus).

WotLK, BfA and Shadowlands are all primarily focused around the Scourge, Arthas, and other forces of death, from the cosmic force of Death and Death magic. Recurring characters were people like Sylvanas, Arthas, Jaina, Uther, and we visited multiple realms of Death including Icecrown and the Shadowlands. While BfA also dealt a lot with Old Gods and was set someplace else other than a realm of Death, you will recall that the entire expansion was basically Sylvanas just harvesting souls and flying around using Death magic. The undertones of the story also heavily involved Death, from characters reminiscing about lost loved ones (Jaina's loss of her family and Arthas, Bwonsamdi and Zul, etc). Heck, Zandalar and Kul Tiras could probably be described as places of death, especially the former. Besides, Old Gods are a part of every expansion and story to some degree so I wouldn't say they're the main theme of BfA simply because we fought N'Zoth at the end.

Finally, DF is primarily focused around Dragons, the Dragon Aspects, the Elements, and given the Dragons' past also the cosmic force of Shadow and Void magic. (The Dragon Aspects were created in the first place to defend Azeroth against the Hour of Twilight and the Old Gods.) If 11.0 has a revamp, which everything seems to suggest, then that's another theme revisited from Cata. I would think maybe it revamps EK and KA, and also features an Old God or Void Lord threat on Azeroth we need to prevent. Heck, we might even be creating and blessing a new World Tree which is another typical aspect of that whole story. Recurring characters involve the Dragon Aspects, Wrathion in place of his daddy Deathwing, Elemental lords, and so on.

[huth]

The World Revamp dream never dies my child, we are the light at the end of the tunnel.

So you're the guys making the faint choo-choo noises?

There's always a chance that I am wrong, but it is unlikely.

That's the best way to be wrong. Being overly sure of your own interpretation. It makes you all the more vulnerable to confirmation bias.

[Sondrelk]

So you're the guys making the faint choo-choo noises?

Faint?! We are trying to make it echo across the hills here?

[Raetary]

Or, maybe, Blizzard has a hard time coming up with relatively original narratives so they just stick to the themes that are popular.

[Worldshaper]

That's the best way to be wrong. Being overly sure of your own interpretation. It makes you all the more vulnerable to confirmation bias.

*Shrug*

I've been speculating about WoW online for almost 20 years, I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the way Blizzard goes about things. Pretty sure there's even an old Tom Chilton quote from around 2016 when he said they'd be developing expansions where stories float into each other more moving ahead.

If you just sit down and look at the four most recent expansions, the least you could say is that they at least did flow into one another.

WoD re-established the Burning Legion as a main threat and brought us back to where it all started. We even had Gul'dan literally usher them all in.

Then in BfA, a departure from the now-closed Burning Legion storyline, instead had Sylvanas very clearly cook up the next story about Death. Now that's dealt with and anther chapter has concluded.

Clearly DF and 11.0 will be the same.

[huth]

If you just sit down and look at the four most recent expansions, the least you could say is that they at least did flow into one another.

And people generally got the way they do so completely wrong.

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Faint?! We are trying to make it echo across the hills here?

From within a tunnel?

[Skildar]

Or, maybe, Blizzard has a hard time coming up with relatively original narratives so they just stick to the themes that are popular.

Their narratives seldom are original, few fantasy games have ones that are, but their settings and lore even when inspired by already popular work are very interesting. Draenor being a planet on which the land and mineral beings are fighting against the flora and root beings was quite a fascinating thing. Same goes with Zereth mortis and the first one automa. Many cultures crafted in the game get you invested let it be the troll tribes and their beliefs, rituals or the mogu's rich history that made the land of pandaria such a rich place.

So I'm not too worried about the narrative of the coming expansions, it can only become better and better and it will always be accompanied with rich lore to support it.

[Raetary]

Their narratives seldom are original

Being completely original isn't the point, being original in the context of the franchise is.
Hence why i said relative original instead of just original.

Blizzard has a big ass issue repeating plot lines ad nauseam.

[Nymrohd]

Their narratives seldom are original, few fantasy games have ones that are, but their settings and lore even when inspired by already popular work are very interesting. Draenor being a planet on which the land and mineral beings are fighting against the flora and root beings was quite a fascinating thing. Same goes with Zereth mortis and the first one automa. Many cultures crafted in the game get you invested let it be the troll tribes and their beliefs, rituals or the mogu's rich history that made the land of pandaria such a rich place.

So I'm not too worried about the narrative of the coming expansions, it can only become better and better and it will always be accompanied with rich lore to support it.

Honestly I don't think originality is important in the genre unless you are trying to create suspense which imo is not ideal due to the medium; when chances are you will not revisit a story for many months or maybe more than a year on occasion, just leaving people hanging may well mean you have them drop the story entirely.

And anyway the problem with the WoW narrative is that the world has become entirely secondary to the characters. It wasn't so in Vanilla or TBC, it started being the problem with Wrath and escalate in Cata, with MoP being the only reprieve from that type of narrative (where characters were again used to tell the story of their people instead of entire races being backgrounds for the story of the characters). And nothing revealed so far about the story of Dragonflight makes me hopeful that changes.

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Being completely original isn't the point, being original in the context of the franchise is.
Hence why i said relative original instead of just original.

Blizzard has a big ass issue repeating plot lines ad nauseam.

Yet you still see people clamoring for Turalyon to be villain batted.

[Makabreska]

Yet you still see people clamoring for Turalyon to be villain batted.

Again, salty Horde players with Garrosh/Sylvi PTSD. They don't want a better story, they want a reason to raid SW.

[Skildar]

Being completely original isn't the point, being original in the context of the franchise is.
Hence why i said relative original instead of just original.

Blizzard has a big ass issue repeating plot lines ad nauseam.

oh oki I misunderstood you then ^^'

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And anyway the problem with the WoW narrative is that the world has become entirely secondary to the characters. It wasn't so in Vanilla or TBC, it started being the problem with Wrath and escalate in Cata, with MoP being the only reprieve from that type of narrative (where characters were again used to tell the story of their people instead of entire races being backgrounds for the story of the characters). And nothing revealed so far about the story of Dragonflight makes me hopeful that changes.

I'm not sure I see what difference you're talking about in narration. What worked well in BC that we haven't had a chance to see a lot of in recent years?