Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

The devs did not add the dungeon finder to wotlk classic due to bias and a very sick idea "it hurt the community feeling", not because the idea it was not popular. Infact, every player played quests, every player used the dungeon finder and LFR was played by around 70% of the players when statistic values still were available. Mythic+ is not close to it based on wowprogress numbers.



Right, questing is the life blood of every MMORPG. Yet, we have no real gearing progression other than a few very bad designed none repetetive world quests and grinds in the questing endgame beside leveling in WoW. Instead of that, the devs cater the endgame to minorities like premade group players.

And you do not want to talk about LFR considering it is way more successfull in the means of participation rates compared to mythic+?

Why? Do you actually even have any numbers to backup your claims "M+ is the most successfull game mode ever"?

Sounds more like a bias.

Going with data for azeroth numbers (which poll directly from active accounts on the armory), only 16% of all players finished Sepulcher of the First ones on ANY mode, including LFR, and this includes both season 3 and 4. Compared to that, atleast 22% of all players got atleast Keystone Explorer in Season 3. So yes, M+ is more successfull than raids. And raids, M+ and pvp are the three pillars of the game, according to Blizzard (and with Dragonflight, their aim is to make crafting into another one).

Feel free to check achievement completion % on your own:
https://www.dataforazeroth.com/chara...ostwolf/khatia

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If you're talking about "forced", questing is the most forced mechanic in the game. There is nothing wrong with cosmetic content locked behind certain content, that has always been the case. I'm not sure what your argument is here.

Maybe he wants every cosmetic item available through a lootbox he can get once a day via some world quest or something.

*shrugs*

[infinitemeridian]

I do not talk about a specific raid, i talk about the success of game modes. You actually compare one of the least popular raids with mythic+. And no, mythic+, in general is not "way more succcessfull" than raids, and LFR itself is split into different parts and you completely forgot the number of players which played the first parts.

LFRs success in participation rates outnumbers all M+ participation rates, as simply 70% of all players played LFR in the past, see the participation staticics from early LFR implementation from MMO-C:



As you wrote yourself, Mythic+ did not even get close to it with 22%, and as you completely ignore the first bosses of the raids, which reach that 70% mark, you cannot really compare that.

If M+ has low participation, all the more reason to give it better rewards, seeing as that is what most drives player behavior.

[Lady Atia]

I do not talk about a specific raid, i talk about the success of game modes. You actually compare one of the least popular raids with mythic+. And no, mythic+, in general is not "way more succcessfull" than raids, and LFR itself is split into different parts and you completely forgot the number of players which played the first parts.

LFRs success in participation rates outnumbers all M+ participation rates, as simply 70% of all players played LFR in the past, see the participation staticics from early LFR implementation from MMO-C:



As you wrote yourself, Mythic+ did not even get close to it with 22%, and as you completely ignore the first bosses of the raids, which reach that 70% mark, you cannot really compare that.

Lol, are you really using the numbers of SoO, the raid that was available for more than a year? From an expansion where the only way to get gear was raiding? It was literally the only way to play the game (as CM's didn't reward any gear, and the daily rewards were a joke at that point in time) besides timeless isle and that was catch-up gear only (which you got so you could play the raid ....).

Also, Ephemeral Plains, the first wing of the Sepulcher also only has 26% completion. Meanwhile we don't know the numbers of people who only finished a single +2 (which would be the equivalent of your "only the first bosses count" argument), but I bet they are higher than that.

[infinitemeridian]

I actually would want to split progression pathes. Actually, blizzard forces every player to play gameplay they do not like. This includes questers who have to play LFR to see the death of the current big baddie. But it also includes raiders that do not want to play quests.

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Sure, that would be a great argument, but that contradicts the idea not to force players into game modes they do not want to play.

Nobody is forced when it comes to cosmetic content. I'm not sure what your argument is here - there is nothing wrong with certain content rewarding unique things to players who do it. It's kind of one of the underlying tenets of what makes an MMO good. I would argue WoW's reward system needs a complete overhaul. There's too many reskins and recolors that come from too many types of content. Rewards should be unique and signify a player participated in or completed certain activities / challenges. FF14 does this great - the mounts are all unique and when I see a player with a mount, I know instantly how they got it and what I have to do to get it if I want. I'm not "forced", but it cosmetic rewards are one of, if not the most important, pieces that inform the average player decisions, especially casuals. Are people "forced" to farm old raids for transmog / mounts / pets?

Every way that people play the game should include some type of cosmetic rewards, a common reward that is somewhat easier to get, better rewards for people who push it, and then FOMO for the top-end.

Nobody was "forced" to do the Mage Tower, yet people did it because it had cool unique rewards and people wanted them. Fomo aside, that was good design, it motivated me to play specs I didn't normally play and I had the most fun in WoW that I've ever had building all my characters up and then taking on the challenges, which were fun in and of themselves.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah, as they actually support my argument. And we did not talk about a time frame. My argument stands, and the facts are obvious. Ignore it or accept it.



I am sure you bet. But you have no numbers. I actually have numbers and argument them. Also, on which player number do you base your completion rates? Please state a source as like i did.

Data for Azeroth (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/leade...s/achievements), which pulls directly from the armory, as I already told you. Please read what I write. =)

[Lady Atia]

It actually does not matter if a reward has power or not. If you want to play that reward, you have to play that component. Actually, it would be way more smart to make cosmetic rewards available from multiple sources.



Well, i would agree if we had horizontal gear progression but we do not have that. We have one reward from one gameplay component, and you do not get that reward anywhere else. If i had to design gearing, i would make it component specific as well based on item bonuses and special stats. As like PVE->PVP gear.




No, a MMO would be good if it adressed all of the playstyles its players want to play. WoW is not "good" currently, as endgame progression is limited to a few players only.




I think all gameplay components should have different levels and different rewards based on the challenge. Not only raiding and mythic+.




The Mage tower was a bad excuse of solo player gameplay, simply because it had no progression on its own. If blizzard wants to make it right they should offer progression for every of their playstyles.

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Please link the statistic itself which shows the participation numbers based on the total number of players.

Dude, you can literally do that yourself if you don't believe what I write? Klick on a character, search for the achievement in question and read the % number. I'm done discussing with you - all you do is spread bad vibes, posting numbers from the game from 9 years ago and ignoring what everyone else writes. Can we please go back to beta discussion?!

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Btw, the Mythic Evoker tint works super well with the purple barber shop armour:



Sadly it seems like you can only use the shoulders and girdle for your Dracthyr form, even though the tier set was made for only Dracthyr in mind. Not unexpected, but still a missed opportunity in my eyes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Stop arguing with the guy, he's been complaining since Shadowlands started.

[Lamoth]

On climate explanation.

Feel free to ask devs at QnA, they might explain it.

But within the game there is no reason to give an answer. Because for that you need someone within the world to ask that question, and why do you think anyone in Azeroth would? They don't have a precedent of our Earth to refer to. Bioms and climate in existing landmasses does not naturally lead to latitude dependency being an agreed on factor due to well pretty random nature of bioms in those explored landmasses.

So, No - there is no in-world need to explain it.

[Makabreska]

Is that your argument? Going ad hominem?

Well, you keep dodging actual arguments. The thing is, long time ago you decided that WoW is shit, and that it will be shit (cuz Ion lawyer is in charge lol), and nothing is gonna change your mind. That is why any discussion with you is pointless. If you want to stew in your bitterness, then sure. No one cares.

[Gorsameth]

Dude, you can literally do that yourself if you don't believe what I write? Klick on a character, search for the achievement in question and read the % number. I'm done discussing with you - all you do is spread bad vibes, posting numbers from the game from 9 years ago and ignoring what everyone else writes. Can we please go back to beta discussion?!

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Btw, the Mythic Evoker tint works super well with the purple barber shop armour:



Sadly it seems like you can only use the shoulders and girdle for your Dracthyr form, even though the tier set was made for only Dracthyr in mind. Not unexpected, but still a missed opportunity in my eyes.

Not even Tier sets showing up in Dracthyr form is a serious letdown.

The fact they actually designed a race that can't transmog, knowing how popular transmogs are, is mind boggling.

Because this is a conscious design decision, they could 100% have made a draconic form that can show off armour. They chose for it to not work.

[Nymrohd]

Did Tyr build the Isles? Or just the facilities that helped give the islands said specific shape?

I mean he made the facilities but we can expect those shaped the isles.

[Lady Atia]

Btw, I just finished the 2nd zone and one of the quests randomly gave me the second dragonriding mount without any explanation which is kind of sad. Was anyone able to find wild npc versions of the Velocidrakes and Wylderdrakes? Any side story quests that give them some lore?

[Makorus]

The game showers you with easiest loot ever through M+.

Whats the issue

[Nymrohd]

The game showers you with easiest loot ever through M+.

Whats the issue

We do know they rethought the limitation on 5 items from crafting (and you can now have any number though only up to 2 items that have special effects). So while you still cannot get Mythic ilvl loot without doing instanced content (and if anyone not fine with that is not really worth discussing with imo), you probably can slowly grind yourself to full heroic gear by doing the elite outdoor areas. Ofc your most effective way of doing those will probably be to group at which point you might as well do M+ but hey, if you want to do it in the open world, it will be available. And I think that's great since it gives all those players a clear gear progression goal.

I guess the special effects on crafted gear might have been too powerful (plus giving FIVE may have created a lot of conflict in gear slots that together with tier could create a very annoying locked slot effect). If you can turn crafted gear of sufficient high ilvl into tier with a forge of sorts, this may well be the golden age of open world players.

[Eldryth]

Not even Tier sets showing up in Dracthyr form is a serious letdown.

The fact they actually designed a race that can't transmog, knowing how popular transmogs are, is mind boggling.

Because this is a conscious design decision, they could 100% have made a draconic form that can show off armour. They chose for it to not work.

Hopefully that functionality just isn't implemented yet. The devs haven't given a clear answer about it, but they did suggest in early interviews that they could do more with tier sets since they're custom made for the race. It'd be pretty disappointing if that's not the case and it launches like this... but I've played Druid long enough to be used to not showing my armor, and I might stay in Visage form out of combat anyway.

[Gurahk]

Not even Tier sets showing up in Dracthyr form is a serious letdown.

The fact they actually designed a race that can't transmog, knowing how popular transmogs are, is mind boggling.

Because this is a conscious design decision, they could 100% have made a draconic form that can show off armour. They chose for it to not work.

They really should've not made the visage form at all, a serious waste of resources. Let the Drac'thyr part be the class itself, and the race you choose to play as is your "visage" form without extra customizations. That way, they could've put more thought into issues such as transmogs AND fix the whole "why am I forced to be a human/blood elf"

[Avikur]

Hoping for the PTR soon, I really wanna try out Evoker.

Not sure if Evoker will be on the pre patch PTR, there was a discussion a few pages back about whether Demon Hunters were in the legion pre patch PTR or not. Hopefully they are because like you I’d like to be able to test them and provide feedback before they are finalised.

[Ersula]

Not sure if Evoker will be on the pre patch PTR, there was a discussion a few pages back about whether Demon Hunters were in the legion pre patch PTR or not. Hopefully they are because like you I’d like to be able to test them and provide feedback before they are finalised.

It sounded exactly like Demon Hunters in the pre-patch: Evokers would only be playable for the last two weeks of the pre-patch, two weeks before DF launch. Demons Hunters were only playable for the last 2 weeks of the 7 week pre-patch period.

[AngerFork]

They were. The legion invasion quest started with the dhs exposing the invaders and u were sent to the dh camp. It was a little awkward because dh talents and abilities were based on max lvl since they started at 98, so they were stuck at 100 for the entire pre event and lacked some abilities. But they did have an advantage leading the charge do to getting more heals and damage after killing a demon and their cc working on demons.

I think the confusion might be...and this is where i am fuzzy, is that the invasion was 3 or 4 weeks and they were only available for 2 weeks before. Remember the invasions happened once a day and ramped up until there would be 3 going on at a time

According to this article, they were released with the pre-patch. I couldn't remember it myself.

Adding in both quotes as I want to respond to both with the same thing. I remember DHs coming out with the pre-patch, I still have tons of Felbat Pups to remind me that they were there for the pre-patch event. I think more the question I was looking at with this (as well as my initial post) was whether they were on the PTR for the pre-patch or if they were only in the Legion Alpha/Beta before being released on live. From everything I've seen, all of the DH testing was in the Alpha/Beta client.

What that then comes to in my estimation is that if Evokers aren't on the PTR client & Blizz is randomly deciding who to invite to beta, they are in essence giving certain players a bit of an advantage towards raiding with Evokers in the first tier of raiding due to the likely experience gap between those who got into the beta & those who have to wait until pre-patch.

[Marlamin]

Hoping for the PTR soon, I really wanna try out Evoker.

The talent system is very broken right now with many people unable to apply talents or have them persist through relogs (even with Blizz's "fix" last night), I wouldn't expect PTR before that issued is fixed. Hopefully it is fixed next week with PTR coming soon afterwards, but this has been an issue since the Alpha began so that is with a huge "maybe".