Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

It doesnt make sense with their environment as I said. Evolutionwise. It is very immersionbreaking when characters don't fit their environment. Of course there are exceptions, but they should always come with a backstory or some other way to infer why they are at a certain place at a certain moment in time. Giving characters a certain skin color just because, is inherently racist. Especially if you change it from a position where it actually made sense in the past.

I mean this is racism. You think people should have a certain color depending on their environment. It is immersion breaking to you if someone is tan in a winter area. They all changed to flesh randomly from a metallic forebearer and they have at most 100 generations since that happened. Humans change phenotype over 1000+ generations. The Dwarves emerged from Uldaman something like 2000 years ago.

[huth]

I meant it in the way that they do keep rezing us It's more of an observation. It's not really their job but they seem to think we need to stick around.

Actually, if you paid attention to Kyrians, it is their job to keep those around whose time hasn't come yet. Like that Lich that keeps getting rejected because he can't get rid of his phylactery.

You're overly quick at stating the Chronicles say Spirit Healers were rogue Val'kyr, though. Yes, there's some hints that some might have come back as Spirit Healers. But there's nothing in there that precludes said Val'kyr from having become Kyrians in-between.

[Nymrohd]

They live mostly inside mountains surrounded by snowy regions. You can do the rest of the reasoning yourself (at least I hope so)

I mean snowy regions by human standards could mean they should be deep tan colors.

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Actually, if you paid attention to Kyrians, it is their job to keep those around whose time hasn't come yet. Like that Lich that keeps getting rejected because he can't get rid of his phylactery.

Oh come on you can see the difference. The Kyrian Watcher choose based on a set of rules (is the soul bound to a different force or somehow bound to the mortal plane? Is someone interfering?). The Spirit Healers are not bound by that set of rules. If anything they probably save us because we are heroic and they were raised in a culture that believed in heroism.

[huth]

Oh come on you can see the difference. The Kyrian Watcher choose based on a set of rules (is the soul bound to a different force or somehow bound to the mortal plane? Is someone interfering?). The Spirit Healers are not bound by that set of rules. If anything they probably save us because we are heroic and they were raised in a culture that believed in heroism.

Given that they're one and the same, yes they are. You even get specificially sent to Azeroth and see a Watcher doing service there in the Kyrian Covenant campaign.

[loras]

4Chan quotes are starting to pop up. Looks like it is time to stop discussing. MMO-champion at its peak as always. Quite weird the racists here haven't been infracted yet.

Hiding your failures behind false claims of racism is exactly what enables real racism.

[Makorus]

I mean snowy regions by human standards could mean they should be deep tan colors.

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Oh come on you can see the difference. The Kyrian Watcher choose based on a set of rules (is the soul bound to a different force or somehow bound to the mortal plane? Is someone interfering?). The Spirit Healers are not bound by that set of rules. If anything they probably save us because we are heroic and they were raised in a culture that believed in heroism.

Kyrian Watchers ARE Spirit Healers.

They said as much during the reveal Blizzcon (2019).

[Raetary]

They live mostly inside mountains surrounded by snowy regions.

They all live closely together in a bunch of dwarf metropoles in Khaz Modan, which consists of primarily a bunch of green, sunny highlands and valleys, with Dun Morogh being the only snowy region.
There are 3 seperate dwarf clans, all of which differ in appearance to some extent or another.

Not only did they not 'evolve' into being, their origins are entirely artificial, their history has always had them intermingle with one another.

[micwini]

Hiding your failures behind false claims of racism is exactly what enables real racism.

Exactly, thank you for pointing it out.

[Makabreska]

Exactly, thank you for pointing it out.

Your comment on how you are so sure that 80% of new NPCs will be black was so sudden and dumb, it makes me feel you spent way too much time in LotR thread.

[Aucald]

Real-world race/identity politics aren't relevant to this thread and are not a permitted topic. Let's return the discussion back to discussing the Alpha/Beta.

[micwini]

Real-world race/identity politics aren't relevant to this thread and are not a permitted topic. Let's return the discussion back to discussing the Alpha/Beta.

Thank you.

[CalamityHeart]

As far as the supposed spirit healer change goes, I probably wouldn't mind if they ended up changing their models, though I don't think it's necessary. The spirit healers can still be acknowledged as Kyrians without changing them to look like literally every single other armored Kyrian in Bastion. In fact, I'd probably rather that; it's probably more refreshing to the Kyrian lore that the Watchers in particular have different uniforms.

[Super Dickmann]

As a lore change it makes no difference, post-SL the Spirit Healers are Kyrian watchers anyway. As an aesthetic choice, using the high definition model made and never used for SL is better than using the more boring model reuse version of the standard armored Kyrian.

[Sondrelk]

As a lore change it makes no difference, post-SL the Spirit Healers are Kyrian watchers anyway. As an aesthetic choice, using the high definition model made and never used for SL is better than using the more boring model reuse version of the standard armored Kyrian.

Speaking of armored Kyrians. I wonder whether it would have been interesting to get a version of Kyrian armor that looks more like a Toga, or at least the flowing robes that the Spirit Healers have.

It's a bit weird looking back that despite Kyrians literally being Spirit Healers you never actually got to really look like them.

[Lady Atia]

Speaking of armored Kyrians. I wonder whether it would have been interesting to get a version of Kyrian armor that looks more like a Toga, or at least the flowing robes that the Spirit Healers have.

It's a bit weird looking back that despite Kyrians literally being Spirit Healers you never actually got to really look like them.

The aspirants have togas ^.^

[Celement]

Speaking of armored Kyrians. I wonder whether it would have been interesting to get a version of Kyrian armor that looks more like a Toga, or at least the flowing robes that the Spirit Healers have.

It's a bit weird looking back that despite Kyrians literally being Spirit Healers you never actually got to really look like them.

They have a toga transmog though it's not as revealing as a spirit healers since blizz got more prudish but it certainly exists.

[Super Dickmann]

Speaking of armored Kyrians. I wonder whether it would have been interesting to get a version of Kyrian armor that looks more like a Toga, or at least the flowing robes that the Spirit Healers have.

It's a bit weird looking back that despite Kyrians literally being Spirit Healers you never actually got to really look like them.

For all that the Kyrians being hte inspiration for the Val'kyr/being Spirit Healers is among the parts that make the most sense out of any SL change and fits completely with the foreshadowing done with Odyn trading his eye to peer into the Shadowlands, the expansion does fuck all with it. The most focus we get is that first Kyrian campaign chapter and then world quests. But then SL is the king of relegating essential worldbuilding into the most cancerous and hard to consistently access forms of content.

As to the aesthetics, in general only parts of Maldraxxus and Revendreth went full out with the concept they were going with. Too many 'safe' choices graphically, and it extends to the sets. The Kyrian cosmetic set comes the closest but even it's kind of naff and doesn't capture the Spirit Healer look.

[SoundOfGuns]

That isn't remotely true. Ive seen dozens, maybe even a hundred Draythry people have made on reddit, and they all look fairly different. More different than a human or orc would. Dracthyr 100% are more distinguishable than humans.

The main reason you think this, is the coloring scheme. There is more difference between the different facemorph and their respective textures you will be able to tell ten human players apart by, than between the dragons and their muzzles, because the basic head and eyeshape is always identical. I believe you will notice that yourself once the new-car-smell wore off...

[Lady Atia]

I'm kinda confused as to why it got replaced...

Especially considering SW has the HD Spirit Healer model...which was a SHADOWLANDS addition. And her model looks Kyrian regardless...

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Uhm, you're looking at them. I always took the Valkyr argument with a grain of salt anyway, as the Kyrian imo look more like the Spirit Healers than the Val'kyr, SL even updated the Classic Spirit Healer to give them a more HD clean while also making them look more Kyrian than anything really.

So the change in the Beta REALLY confuses tf outta me, especially considering the HD classic Spirit Healer update looked very much Kyrian.

Again, there is no change in the Beta for me. So I assume it's a bug if someone sees Kyrians there lol. They already replaced the classic Spirit Healer with the HD version with Shadowlands.

[Nymrohd]

Speaking of armored Kyrians. I wonder whether it would have been interesting to get a version of Kyrian armor that looks more like a Toga, or at least the flowing robes that the Spirit Healers have.

It's a bit weird looking back that despite Kyrians literally being Spirit Healers you never actually got to really look like them.

The cosmetic set added in 9.1 did look like a toga. Or really, looked a bit like what Hermes wears in ancient greek statues. I think it would have made sense to make the different Kyrian orders more visually distinct. Plate for the psychopomp Bearers since they seem to be the fighters, cloth for the Watchers, leather/mail for the Collectors. I mean the sets exist already.