1. #67101
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Last time we saw the PTR servers they were already on the same 10.0 build as beta, but with the talent issues still not fixed in Beta I doubt they want to start up PTR testing until that is fixed. As soon as they deem things stable enough for PTR testing I'm sure we'll see it come up pretty quick as they seem ready to go.
    I'm expecting (hoping) that they do a new beta build this week with a fix for the talent issue and then update the PTR to the same build and release that as well
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  2. #67102
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the twist will be the mythological constant of "In the beginning there, was nothing". The First Ones displaced that "Nothing" and it is probably pissed with all this reality and six forces squatting at its home.
    A bit weird considering the First Ones' thoughts are apparently so immense that they encompass EVERYTHING AND NOTHING at once, and that same logic is used to describe Light and Shadow (all and none).

  3. #67103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    A bit weird considering the First Ones' thoughts are apparently so immense that they encompass EVERYTHING AND NOTHING at once, and that same logic is used to describe Light and Shadow (all and none).
    Which is all functionally meaningless drivel that best remains as something scrawled in the margins of the notes of a freshman philosophy major - not as the central narrative of any story that wants to be coherent and impactful.

  4. #67104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Nah, it needs to be way gayer.
    It does fit ye

  5. #67105
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    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #67106
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Can we even hope for a build yet though?

  7. #67107
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Hopefully they will be willing to make Dragonriding a bit more challenging. The turning especially feels far too lenient at the moment, you really don't get a sense that turning sharply has any penalty at all, much less that it's part of the challenge.
    Also would love if they made the last few Dragonriding talent points be locked behind the challenge races, otherwise you will just fill the talent tree instantly the second you get the mount and then never really progress in any way.

    I would absolutely hate it if Blizzard ended up making this feature too easy, ruining any chance at making it feel challenging later. We have already seen with regualr flying how making things too easy early just means you cannot make it harder again later without it feeling annoying. And I really, really want Dragonriding to be the new norm, and for that it needs to be tuned to the level where it feels difficult at the highest level.
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  8. #67108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I would absolutely hate it if Blizzard ended up making this feature too easy, ruining any chance at making it feel challenging later. We have already seen with regualr flying how making things too easy early just means you cannot make it harder again later without it feeling annoying. And I really, really want Dragonriding to be the new norm, and for that it needs to be tuned to the level where it feels difficult at the highest level.
    They will never make it baseline challenging, it is a mean of transport thats sole purpose is to make flying more interactive and enjoyable. Not make people suddenly having to focus hard on it which will quickly cause exhaustion. You will get your challenges in some WQ's or races they will no doubt implement.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-06 at 07:39 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  9. #67109
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Hopefully they will be willing to make Dragonriding a bit more challenging. The turning especially feels far too lenient at the moment, you really don't get a sense that turning sharply has any penalty at all, much less that it's part of the challenge.
    I just want to feel that if I try to go at full speed I will careen into a hill and die. Is that too much to ask?

  10. #67110
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    They will never make it baseline challenging, it is a mean of transport thats sole purpose is to make flying more interactive and enjoyable. Not make people suddenly having to focus hard on it which will quickly cause exhaustion. You will get your challenges in some WQ's or races they will no doubt implement.
    Challenging doesnt have to mean extremely difficult. The final boss of a Normal raid is challenging.

    What I want from Dragonriding is more specifically that it doesnt end up trivial. I don't need a mythic equivalent to Dragonriding, but I would like a NM variant, so to speak. Something that requires a baseline amount of effort such that it doesnt end up feeling unearned. There should be a level of skill that separates those that do it well enough to those that do it great, just like how in a NM raid you don't need amazing DPS, but you are definitely rewarded for having it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I just want to feel that if I try to go at full speed I will careen into a hill and die. Is that too much to ask?
    This is pretty much the case.
    I still stand by that what I want from Dragonriding is the same feeling I get from gliding in Just Cause 3. Or using the Elytra in Minecraft. Not something that is difficult and requires lots of learning, but something that rewards good play with more gameplay opportunities and challenges than what you get it from it by doing the minimal amount.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  11. #67111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Challenging doesnt have to mean extremely difficult. The final boss of a Normal raid is challenging.

    What I want from Dragonriding is more specifically that it doesnt end up trivial. I don't need a mythic equivalent to Dragonriding, but I would like a NM variant, so to speak. Something that requires a baseline amount of effort such that it doesnt end up feeling unearned. There should be a level of skill that separates those that do it well enough to those that do it great, just like how in a NM raid you don't need amazing DPS, but you are definitely rewarded for having it.
    Apples to oranges. What will you get by being better at DRing? Getting to your destination a little faster?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #67112
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Apples to oranges. What will you get by being better at DRing? Getting to your destination a little faster?
    Yeah. That would be enough for me tbh. Or getting to my destination in a more creative way. And more importantly, actually getting to it instead of just afking there and then remembering I was flying only to find myself dying on fatigue water.

  13. #67113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yeah. That would be enough for me tbh. Or getting to my destination in a more creative way. And more importantly, actually getting to it instead of just afking there and then remembering I was flying only to find myself dying on fatigue water.
    Well, that last part is already there since the start.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  14. #67114
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Apples to oranges. What will you get by being better at DRing? Getting to your destination a little faster?
    The good feeling you get from being good at something.
    I still think that the best metric for a good version of Dragonriding is one where you can, if you are good at it, fly from the shore to the highest peak, and for this to be challenging enough that it's not a simple checklist achievement.

    Currently it seems like it's mostly trivial to fly around at max level. It takes the bare minimum to regain vigor, and with lenient turning circles and plenty of movement options staying in the air is more of an AFK check than anything.

    A different metric on which to judge Dragonriding is whether players organically feel that the Flight Master is a good option, rather than simply using Dragonriding everywhere.
    Obviously if you are in Valdrakken then the game is very clearly laid out to use your mount to get down and that is perfectly fine. But what I wonder is whether Dragonriding will become so trivial that even stuff like moving from the North tip to the South tip will be trivial enough that players will only choose the Flight Master if they have something else to do rather than play the game. Not quite as severe as with regualr flying where you only use the Flight Master if you are afraid you will autorun into the fatigue zone, but still.


    In short. I want Dragonriding to be tuned to such a level where it isnt trivial at the games highest level of intended challenge, like Advanced flying courses, or even regualr Gold courses. And in many ways be tuned in such a way that Blizzard has plenty of room to make new challenges or changes to it later, without those changes solely being to add areas where it isnt useable.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #67115
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The good feeling you get from being good at something.
    I still think that the best metric for a good version of Dragonriding is one where you can, if you are good at it, fly from the shore to the highest peak, and for this to be challenging enough that it's not a simple checklist achievement.

    Currently it seems like it's mostly trivial to fly around at max level. It takes the bare minimum to regain vigor, and with lenient turning circles and plenty of movement options staying in the air is more of an AFK check than anything.

    A different metric on which to judge Dragonriding is whether players organically feel that the Flight Master is a good option, rather than simply using Dragonriding everywhere.
    Obviously if you are in Valdrakken then the game is very clearly laid out to use your mount to get down and that is perfectly fine. But what I wonder is whether Dragonriding will become so trivial that even stuff like moving from the North tip to the South tip will be trivial enough that players will only choose the Flight Master if they have something else to do rather than play the game. Not quite as severe as with regualr flying where you only use the Flight Master if you are afraid you will autorun into the fatigue zone, but still.


    In short. I want Dragonriding to be tuned to such a level where it isnt trivial at the games highest level of intended challenge, like Advanced flying courses, or even regualr Gold courses. And in many ways be tuned in such a way that Blizzard has plenty of room to make new challenges or changes to it later, without those changes solely being to add areas where it isnt useable.

    While you do have some valid points you also have to consider that this is a feature ment for everyone.. And by that meaning it means literally everyone playing the game at different levels and different amounts of time each week. For example if you have a disability that makes everything a little more challening making this ment to be a fun feature considering it doesnt really empower your character in any way almost impossible to do at max efficiency due to something like that.
    All I'm saying is that we have to kind of think of it more ways then what we would prefer for ourselves here because this feature is ment for everyone.
    But I do see what you're saying and maybe they can find a middle ground to give us options to test ourselves or face more challening things rather then making Dragonriding itself more challenging as a base.

  16. #67116
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkura View Post
    While you do have some valid points you also have to consider that this is a feature ment for everyone.. And by that meaning it means literally everyone playing the game at different levels and different amounts of time each week. For example if you have a disability that makes everything a little more challening making this ment to be a fun feature considering it doesnt really empower your character in any way almost impossible to do at max efficiency due to something like that.
    All I'm saying is that we have to kind of think of it more ways then what we would prefer for ourselves here because this feature is ment for everyone.
    But I do see what you're saying and maybe they can find a middle ground to give us options to test ourselves or face more challening things rather then making Dragonriding itself more challenging as a base.
    And if Dragonriding was a bit more challenging all it would mean is that people who don't want any challenge would just not reach top speed and would occasionally pick a flight path.

  17. #67117
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, the Nathrezim in the Legion actually are demons, the Eternal Ones did not fight one another at any point outside of their fight against Zovaal and the Jailer just gave the Legion the sword and helm when they were already planning to go to Azeroth anyway. He also didn't have any servants there before the Lich King that we know off and the whole Lich King thing didn't really work out.
    And Sylvanas turned on him immediately once she realised what she was being manipulated into.

    So pretty much everything.

    Also, the Nathrezim are servants of Denathrius, not Zovaal. They work for Zovaal, but they aren't his servants and likely not truly loyal, only staying because Denathrius told them to.
    1. The nathrezim are dreadlords from the shadowlands I will however concede the point the fel caused them to become technical demons

    2. The covenants are fighting when we get to shadowlands and don't seem fond of one another

    3. The Jailer used the helm and sword to make a servant on Azeroth and THEN went through trouble to make Sylvanas follow him

    4. Sylvanas did to anduin what Arthas did to her...was even a point in a cutscene with anduin and she served him by doing exactly what she was ordered to and was OK with everyone else serving until he said everyone.

    So to sum up the Jailer (who denathrius worked for and who the dreadlords called master) had the dreadlords give the legion the helm and sword saying they crafted it. Then he got lucky that sargeras sent it to Azeroth but that was apparently part of the plan then he had the dreadlords send Arthas after the helm and then had him make Sylvanas and the dreadlords betray Arthas and try to keep him from becoming the lich king.

    Then after Arthas became the lich king and resisted the Jailer he had his dreadlords attack him. When Sylvanas got penetrated by old god blood he talked to her in the maw and made her a deal telling her that she will serve him eventually and told her signs. She ended up seeing the signs and decided to serve him.

  18. #67118
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    2. The covenants are fighting when we get to shadowlands and don't seem fond of one another
    No, they're not. Rogue Maldraxxians are and Maldraxxus is in a state of civil war at the time. The Covenant is essentially defunct until we go there and beat down that war. The other Covenants aren't even interacting, much less fighting.

    3. The Jailer used the helm and sword to make a servant on Azeroth and THEN went through trouble to make Sylvanas follow him
    Which is completely different than what you said before, so i fail to see your point.

    4. Sylvanas did to anduin what Arthas did to her...was even a point in a cutscene with anduin and she served him by doing exactly what she was ordered to and was OK with everyone else serving until he said everyone.
    So she served him until she realised what she was doing.

  19. #67119
    Is there a way to preview the Dragonriding mount customizations?
    Last edited by infinitemeridian; 2022-09-06 at 11:57 PM.

  20. #67120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Challenging doesnt have to mean extremely difficult. The final boss of a Normal raid is challenging.

    What I want from Dragonriding is more specifically that it doesnt end up trivial. I don't need a mythic equivalent to Dragonriding, but I would like a NM variant, so to speak. Something that requires a baseline amount of effort such that it doesnt end up feeling unearned. There should be a level of skill that separates those that do it well enough to those that do it great, just like how in a NM raid you don't need amazing DPS, but you are definitely rewarded for having it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is pretty much the case.
    I still stand by that what I want from Dragonriding is the same feeling I get from gliding in Just Cause 3. Or using the Elytra in Minecraft. Not something that is difficult and requires lots of learning, but something that rewards good play with more gameplay opportunities and challenges than what you get it from it by doing the minimal amount.
    Denath was challenging at release for being a dps race.
    It's now challenging to limit your dps enough to cleanse enough stacks before P2

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