Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[hulkgor]

People hating on borrowed power, yet praising and asking for tier set bonuses.

Oh, the irony.

MMO-C discussions can really get dumb so often.

[Luck4]

Honestly I think borrowed power can work just fine as long as

a) It's one system per expansion, not two or three
b) There is no infinite grind

The problem is that every Borrowed Power is designed around either endless or huge DAILY time sink, Shadowlands made us do Korthia and Maw every day for months to get conduits and sockets, leaving alone Torghast farm to craft legos, raising Renown for other covenants, and upgrading shards in 9.1. You just need a couple of minutes to remember a bit more about 9.0/9.1 and the borrowed power stuff rapidly stacks up.

I'm a Mythic raider, and I remember back in 9.0/9.1 that I wanted to do plenty of optional activities, but I couldn't because I needed to waste 2 f-ing hours every single day doing maw/korthia.

[Nymrohd]

Nah the only problem here is you.
The only good borrowed power is NO borrowed power.

Tier sets are borrowed power. Strong trinkets or other items with specials are borrowed power. Heck all power is borrowed cause it will get reset next xpac when all your stats will be devalued after 5-6 new levels.

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The problem is that every Borrowed Power is designed around either endless or huge DAILY time sink, Shadowlands made us do Korthia and Maw every day for months to get conduits and sockets, leaving alone Torghast farm to craft legos, raising Renown for other covenants, and upgrading shards in 9.1. You just need a couple of minutes to remember a bit more about 9.0/9.1 and the borrowed power stuff rapidly stacks up.

I'm a Mythic raider, and I remember back in 9.0/9.1 that I wanted to do plenty of optional activities, but I couldn't because I needed to waste 2 f-ing hours every single day doing maw/korthia.

Yup, pretty much. I have no idea why they thought that was a good design. You want to give players a reason to play your game but not repeat things so much that they burn out. I am not saying there should be no rewards for playing a lot but make them horizontal like e.g. doing 8+ M+ dungeons for the Vault giving you a third slot of loot. And that was the problem with the other xpacs. Legion had the grind very much be infinite and fairly rewarding for every rank. BfA just kept adding new systems you had to work with as did SL.

[Ersula]

Tier sets are borrowed power. Strong trinkets or other items with specials are borrowed power. Heck all power is borrowed cause it will get reset next xpac when all your stats will be devalued after 5-6 new levels.

Borrowed power isn't a problem in itself, the problem is more that these is a complete absence of non-borrowed power. The proper balance is giving players new exciting abilities every expansion & taking away the underused ones.

Bringing back a ton of nostalgic abilities in Shadowlands was a bad idea. Right now it seems they're in the opposite mindset, we've already seen a ton of completely new dragonflight abilities disappear before it even comes out. Priest had a ton of new active abilities revealed & they're already gone. Just to bring back Shadow Covenant? Boo.

[Luck4]

People hating on borrowed power, yet praising and asking for tier set bonuses.

Oh, the irony.

MMO-C discussions can really get dumb so often.

It's not ironic. I don't need to level up a tier set every day, nor do I need to raise something else for it to work, I just need to drop it and it's over, something that other players can help you achieve if you're unlucky.

Please don't compare tier sets to this garbage stuff that's been added since Legion, like seriously.

[hulkgor]

It's not ironic. I don't need to level up a tier set every day, nor do I need to raise something else for it to work, I just need to drop it and it's over, something that other players can help you achieve if you're unlucky.

Please don't compare tier sets to this garbage stuff that's been added since Legion, like seriously.

Not only is that argument ironic, it's also laughable.

[Lady Atia]

It's not ironic. I don't need to level up a tier set every day, nor do I need to raise something else for it to work, I just need to drop it and it's over, something that other players can help you achieve if you're unlucky.

Please don't compare tier sets to this garbage stuff that's been added since Legion, like seriously.

Also tier sets still have a transmog that you keep even if they disable the set bonus.

[Luck4]

Not only is that argument ironic, it's also laughable.

Sure mate, come back once you get something better to say.

Tier sets nowadays even have catch-up mechanics, so people don't even need to drop it after a couple of weeks, just an item to convert to a tier piece.

Seriously, get better material.

[Makabreska]

Not only is that argument ironic, it's also laughable.

No sure what are you going at. If people complain about borrowed powers, they always mean post WoD features that require you to grind and grind on every character every patch. Yes, tier sets are also borrowed power, but no one considered them problematic here.

[Catastrophy349]

I stopped commenting a long time ago. It's more fun just reading through all of these.

[huth]

No sure what are you going at. If people complain about borrowed powers, they always mean post WoD features that require you to grind and grind on every character every patch. Yes, tier sets are also borrowed power, but no one considered them problematic here.

Except none of them actually did. People mistook the possibility of continually working further on it for doing so being mandatory when the gains were marginal at best.

If you were grinding any of them, you were just wasting your time.

[Nyel]

Nah the only problem here is you.
The only good borrowed power is NO borrowed power.

I'm definitely not the problem here. If they would have done artifact weapons right, they could have been Dragonflight's talent trees. But they didn't. Artifact weapons were right there to be a great system carrying over into future expansion. Azerite and Covenants definitely not, but artifacts for sure.
@Luck4 I think it really depends on implementation. See above.

[Makabreska]

Except none of them actually did. People mistook the possibility of continually working further on it for doing so being mandatory when the gains were marginal at best.

If you were grinding any of them, you were just wasting your time.

So like, when you got a fresh character in 8.3, getting proper Azerite armor, farming Essences and Corruption gear, all that was for marginal gains?

[Musta]

Are we getting a build today?

[huth]

So like, when you got a fresh character in 8.3, getting proper Azerite armor, farming Essences and Corruption gear, all that was for marginal gains?

No, but it also wasn't a huge grind nor in any way comparable to the scenario you laid out previously. In fact, that you could do so already disproves the claim that the grind was necessary, as otherwise you'd be stuck hopelessly behind. In reality, it took little more effort than gearing up in any other expansion.

[Makabreska]

No, but it also wasn't a huge grind nor in any way comparable to the scenario you laid out previously. In fact, that you could do so already disproves the claim that the grind was necessary, as otherwise you'd be stuck hopelessly behind. In reality, it took little more effort than gearing up in any other expansion.

Blood of the Enemy rank 3 hugely disagrees with that. BiS Essence for so many specs hidden behind 40k honour farm and with a huge power spike @ rank 3. Not to mention other Essences or Corruption gear RNG/waiting for a proper week to buy it (provided you got the currency you had to farm).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm definitely not the problem here. If they would have done artifact weapons right, they could have been Dragonflight's talent trees. But they didn't. Artifact weapons were right there to be a great system carrying over into future expansion. Azerite and Covenants definitely not, but artifacts for sure.
@Luck4 I think it really depends on implementation. See above.

Artifacts were pretty shit as far as trees go.

Sure you’d pick your way through them early on but after a couple weeks you just had the full thing filled out and there was no choice or change in play style at all other then relics which did next to nothing.

Visually they were cool but as far as function goes they were worthless.

[Zaganite]

I stopped commenting a long time ago. It's more fun just reading through all of these.

Honestly it's making the wait for a release date or the pre-patch date more bearable.

[huth]

Blood of the Enemy rank 3 hugely disagrees with that. BiS Essence for so many specs hidden behind 40k honour farm and with a huge power spike @ rank 3. Not to mention other Essences or Corruption gear RNG/waiting for a proper week to buy it (provided you got the currency you had to farm).

For a few specs. Not exactly all that useful for ranged. And this is still for the most part not a big grind.

[Nyel]

Artifacts were pretty shit as far as trees go.

Sure you’d pick your way through them early on but after a couple weeks you just had the full thing filled out and there was no choice or change in play style at all other then relics which did next to nothing.

Visually they were cool but as far as function goes they were worthless.

Worthless? They altered the playstyle as much as the new talent trees do, if not more lol. And as I said, if they would have done them right, they could have been a thing to stay for years, an alternative progression system. Addind a few nodes each content patch and adding a complete new region or layout with each expansion.