1. #2361
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Things can't return to normalcy until... get this... things actually start being normal again.

    You can't "ignore" the virus away. We've been trying that for 10 months, and 400,000 people have died because of it.
    Also, I'd prefer not going back to a normal where people work or go around in public while they're sick without wearing masks.

    Corona has really highlighted how unhygienic a lot of American social rituals are from handshakes to... well, y'all remember how until recently we had a tradition where someone would breathe all over a nice, moist cake before serving it to a crowd of people?
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  2. #2362
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Also, I'd prefer not going back to a normal where people work or go around in public while they're sick without wearing masks.

    Corona has really highlighted how unhygienic a lot of American social rituals are from handshakes to... well, y'all remember how until recently we had a tradition where someone would breathe all over a nice, moist cake before serving it to a crowd of people?
    I'm really hoping the "good-to-meet-you" handshakes will be one of those things that doesn't return once everything else goes back to "normal". Can we bow instead? Nice, respectful, and most importantly, contactless bows.

  3. #2363
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Even if he is just going to quietly let it die...Biden's the one doing the dirty work.

    Climate Leaders lead. Trudeau isn't doing that.

    And I'm not heavily anti-Trudeau. He's not the guy I wanted but he's better than the guy I didn't. But there are things that Trudeau has, or has not, done that have disappointed me.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Hours ago, you were like "He's not doing anything progressive"

    Now, it's "He's only doing progressive stuff because he's being pressured"

    Would you like to move the goalposts further?

    I get that Joe Biden isn't your ideal President...but can you not just take a few days to appreciate that at least there is an adult in the White House?
    Note that firstly it is in quotation marks. And no it isn’t progressive. Restoring shit isn’t progressive. Tepidly backing what is just common place isn’t progressive.

    And fuck no. Comfort is expensive too expensive. This is the time to push and demand actual progression not get comfortable and let it be.

    My attitude is “Yay we have a person that isn’t unhinged now let’s push towards what is needed to better the country and lives of its citizens. Now is not the time to relax. Now is the WORST time to relax.”

    I did not move a god damn goalpost my argument hasn’t changed.

    And frankly, the idea that "y'all just need to take a few days and chill" is silly to me.

    As I mentioned already... right out of the gate we start with the continued weird fucking obsession our government has with overthrowing Maduro to replace him with a person who didn't run... nor get any votes... from the populace part of a party that has zero seats in that country's assembly. dude is charged with treason which... working with foreign governments to overthrow your own government tends to be treason in most places.. Picks that are on the board of fucking Raytheon... commerce picks who supported Trump tax cups.... Exactly when am I supposed to be like "woohoo"??? I was like "this is acceptable and good" in November. November was months ago.

    You should also know that I was absolutely no fan of Barrack Obama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Also, I'd prefer not going back to a normal where people work or go around in public while they're sick without wearing masks.

    Corona has really highlighted how unhygienic a lot of American social rituals are from handshakes to... well, y'all remember how until recently we had a tradition where someone would breathe all over a nice, moist cake before serving it to a crowd of people?
    I never ever ever liked the blowing candle shit... I always thought it was just very germy and stupid since I was a kid. Probably because I got sick after a birthday party when I was 6.
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-01-23 at 07:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  4. #2364
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I'm really hoping the "good-to-meet-you" handshakes will be one of those things that doesn't return once everything else goes back to "normal". Can we bow instead? Nice, respectful, and most importantly, contactless bows.
    I'd suggest hat tipping but unfortunately the incels already appropriated that one.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  5. #2365
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post

    Exactly when am I supposed to be like "woohoo"???
    I never said you should be "woohoo". Maybe just a little sigh of relief that your former president didn't get the coup he wanted?

    I was like "this is acceptable and good" in November. November was months ago.
    Sure...it was 2 months ago that Biden was elected...but it was only days ago that he actually became president. And he's already done a bunch of good shit. Maybe you didn't get everything you wanted...but things could be a fuck of a lot worse for you right now.

    So even if you can't take a couple days to enjoy it...maybe let the people who are have just the teensiest moment of celebration..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I'd suggest hat tipping but unfortunately the incels already appropriated that one.
    Also, everybody would have to start wearing hats again.

  6. #2366
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I’ve seen so many “progressives stfu he’s doing progressive stuff see!!”

    Like did you think perhaps it is because of all the pressure??
    If it was pressure, progressives would be celebrating getting what they want. Which would mean, no need to tell anyone to STFU...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Note that firstly it is in quotation marks. And no it isn’t progressive. Restoring shit isn’t progressive. Tepidly backing what is just common place isn’t progressive.
    I don’t get it... do you want credit or do you want to complain?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #2367
    It always seemed to me that Biden was/is left of Obama on some things, and not willing to play the isdues as political chips to play. Obama shied away from the LGBT issue until Biden "gaffed" to the press about his full support.

  8. #2368
    Trumpers blaming Biden for Dividing the country.

    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

    "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." - Roger Stone (Trump's Friend, Ally, and Campaign Advisor)

  9. #2369
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It always seemed to me that Biden was/is left of Obama on some things, and not willing to play the isdues as political chips to play. Obama shied away from the LGBT issue until Biden "gaffed" to the press about his full support.
    I think the difference is time, not one being more left than the other.

    RIP Larry King...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  10. #2370
    Pit Lord D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I never said you should be "woohoo". Maybe just a little sigh of relief that your former president didn't get the coup he wanted?



    Sure...it was 2 months ago that Biden was elected...but it was only days ago that he actually became president. And he's already done a bunch of good shit. Maybe you didn't get everything you wanted...but things could be a fuck of a lot worse for you right now.

    So even if you can't take a couple days to enjoy it...maybe let the people who are have just the teensiest moment of celebration..

    - - - Updated - - -



    Also, everybody would have to start wearing hats again.
    look at my profile pic,
    no, no I wouldn't wear a hat
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  11. #2371
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    If it was pressure, progressives would be celebrating getting what they want. Which would mean, no need to tell anyone to STFU...

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don’t get it... do you want credit or do you want to complain?
    Exactly why do you have any issue with me and people who aren’t satisfied? It’s just that kind of shitty attitude around politics that keeps us in the sewer... save your bs.

    You do not get to bitch and moan about progressives while trying to claim Biden has done progressive things (in your opinion) that he hasn’t supported until the popular opinion spoke louder especially from the left.

    So save your bullshit.

    I don’t like board members of arms companies in cabinet positions. I don’t like American imperialism and regimen changes. It hasn’t ever fucking worked and to sit up there and support one coup while claiming “we got our democracy back” is bogus and hypocritical.
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-01-23 at 02:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  12. #2372
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Exactly why do you have any issue with me and people who aren’t satisfied? It’s just that kind of shitty attitude around politics that keeps up in the sewer... save your bs.
    For the same reason you have issue with people who are satisfied? With a tiny request for consistency...

    You do not get to bitch and moan about progressives while trying to claim Biden has done progressive things (in your opinion) that he hasn’t supported until the popular opinion spoke louder especially from the left.
    Oh dude... I am an equal opportunity “bitch”... I am not going to ignore progressives complaining about Biden not doing something, while taking credit for him doing it. Because in 4 years, it’s the screaming about him not doing anything, instead of celebrating that you got your way... that will be repeated on conservative media. I have seen this show before...

    So save your bullshit.
    Schnell!!!

    Edit: You know how I know that am on the correct track? Everyone from the left to the right and even the center... tells me to shut up...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-01-23 at 02:39 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #2373
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    For the same reason you have issue with people who are satisfied? With a tiny request for consistency...



    Oh dude... I am an equal opportunity “bitch”... I am not going to ignore progressives complaining about Biden not doing something, while taking credit for him doing it. Because in 4 years, it’s the screaming about him not doing anything, instead of celebrating that you got your way... that will be repeated on conservative media. I have seen this show before...



    Schnell!!!
    Even if Biden pushed through M4A tomorrow these people would still bitch and moan. Just let them QQ and focus on what’s actually important.

  14. #2374
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Even if Biden pushed through M4A tomorrow these people would still bitch and moan. Just let them QQ and focus on what’s actually important.
    I know... I said similar just yesterday... I like themius though... their heart is in a good place...

    Edit: Corrected the spelling of user name...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-01-23 at 02:54 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  15. #2375
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    For the same reason you have issue with people who are satisfied? With a tiny request for consistency...



    Oh dude... I am an equal opportunity “bitch”... I am not going to ignore progressives complaining about Biden not doing something, while taking credit for him doing it. Because in 4 years, it’s the screaming about him not doing anything, instead of celebrating that you got your way... that will be repeated on conservative media. I have seen this show before...



    Schnell!!!

    Edit: You know how I know that am on the correct track? Everyone from the left to the right and even the center... tells me to shut up...
    Being told to shut up doesn't mean you're on the right track. The bullshit here is trying to dictate how others should feel that's the bull shit you should save that isn't you being on a track to anything.

    I do not have an issue with people who are satisfied i have an issue with those people demanding others be like you are

    The new deal with done with tremendous pressure from the left, does that mean the left doesn't get to complain when things were left out? What a crock of shit.

    ACA at the time had support from the left does that mean the left doesn't get to bitch when ACA took a very weird approach to the medical system that didn't go far enough? What I do not understand is this attitude of "don't complain shut up. Progressives don't get to complain and push and push and then complain when parts of what they want gets passed"

    If he passes M4A you mean to tell me I can't complain about American Imperialism? I complained about it under Clinton, Bush, and fucking Obama. I don't get to complain about the eventual war crimes that will be committed (all hints point to no end of this) because he did a thing progressives wanted?

    Question yourself if he does pass M4A how he got there from I will veto it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Even if Biden pushed through M4A tomorrow these people would still bitch and moan. Just let them QQ and focus on what’s actually important.
    Seriously you centrist "shut the fuck up and take what you get" types are bogus to me.

    If he passes M4A tell me how he got there... did he get there from people saying "let Biden be himself" or did he get there from the pressure from the outside? It seems fucking crazy to me that Americans in particular fall into this idea that people just should stfu when the status quo is back as if the status quo was roses.

    Do you think other countries have social spending because they have a left-party that falls in line with the majority centrist party? Or because they fight and argue and push for what they want and what the public in general needs? This idea that you have is uniquely Americans and it doesn't clear work..

    I recall the entire thing about Biden was that "constant pressure would be needed to push him but he will pass progressive policy if there is enough pressure from within and the public" did we all fucking forget that or something?

    We can't both say:

    "Biden needs pressure in order to pass progressive policy"

    while also contending

    "progressive stfu he's doing stuff zomg you just bitch and moan when he does stuff you don't like"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  16. #2376
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Question yourself if he does pass M4A how he got there from I will veto it
    By doing something progressives can’t seem to do... the cost...

    Think about it... if you actually give a shit about M4A. What’s the proper response to Biden saying he will veto it, if the cost isn’t established? Is it to complain that he won’t sign it or show him the cost so he doesn’t have an excuse?

    You can guess which way I lean...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #2377
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    By doing something progressives can’t seem to do... the cost...

    Think about it... if you actually give a shit about M4A. What’s the proper response to Biden saying he will veto it, if the cost isn’t established? Is it to complain that he won’t sign it or show him the cost so he doesn’t have an excuse?

    You can guess which way I lean...
    Costs are and have always been a shield used by both Democrats and Republicans to not do a thing...

    Recall that one major problem we have is it was made illegal for the government to negotiate the price of prescriptions... a fucking bogus thing that makes no sense. Where the money will come from will be the wealthy.

    I mean he could just pull an FDR we are in that moment now aren't we. But remember that FDR was pushed so far because of tremendous pressure from the very left that at the time had three parties and was way more established back then, than the left is today.

    The issue is, and I posted about this before... America keeps trying to do medicare for all while also leaving out prescription and costs of care reform. They say some passive "we will lower prescription prices" with what legislation? What negotiation? The negotiation is illegal so is there a repeal of that to allow it?

    Right now Biden is in "lower costs" mode, but how? It isn't exactly fleshed out...

    How about a law saying the government gets a part of any profits for medicine and pays a steeply discounted price for it if government funds were used in its production. Considering.... every single approved medication has government funds.... I think that could work.
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-01-23 at 03:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  18. #2378
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Costs are and have always been a shield used by both Democrats and Republicans to not do a thing...
    We are not disagreeing here... the issue is how to break the shield. I think establishing the cost, so there is no excuse, is far better than figuring out who to blame. I’m personally tired of pointing out to conservatives, that we already pay more than we need for healthcare. I would like there to be an actual policy page that lays out the cost. So I can just link that, instead of posting a novel. It works on both the macro and micro...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  19. #2379
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    We are not disagreeing here... the issue is how to break the shield. I think establishing the cost, so there is no excuse, is far better than figuring out who to blame. I’m personally tired of pointing out to conservatives, that we already pay more than we need for healthcare. I would like there to be an actual policy page that lays out the cost. So I can just link that, instead of posting a novel. It works on both the macro and micro...
    I think the way to break that shield is to simply push harder from within and outside of the party from he left. Not to let things lie and try to work and compromise... that hasn't ever worked. Compromising with Republicans doesn't work, and nor does the left compromising with the democrats. If there is any compromise it should be met with more pressure for what you actually want. We have been through this time and time again and history has pretty much shown us the errors of getting comfortable and taking a breather... things begin to go back.

    The solution there is for the majority to know that America pays more than any other developed nation for healthcare that actively bankrupts and kills them and the reason that is is because our own government decided to say it can't negotiate pricing because our government is corrupt af and filled with people who are considering where to land once they're done in Washington.

    Do I want that job on merks board? Better play nice!

    The thing is Biden knows... anyone who works in Washington damn well knows the issues of costs and how we got there. It's the public who is woefully ignorant and therefore doesn't use that argument to force the change. The democrats the republicans they all know it, but few, besides Bernie screams it. Katie Porter, AOC, some of the other progressives but they're a relatively small part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  20. #2380
    @Themius you seem super confused buddy. I’m pushing for M4A and more. What I’m not doing is wasting time crying about Biden since he’ll sign pretty much any progressive legislation that actually makes it to his desk. I’m lobbying Congress to get that legislation done so it can make it to Biden’s desk. Until Biden does some horrible shit I’m going to give him credit for what he has done. So far he hasn’t fallen short with any of his actions, imo. There’s more I’d like to see get done, but he can’t just do that shit with the stroke of a pen.

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