Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Vegas82]

For the same reason you have issue with people who are satisfied? With a tiny request for consistency...



Oh dude... I am an equal opportunity “bitch”... I am not going to ignore progressives complaining about Biden not doing something, while taking credit for him doing it. Because in 4 years, it’s the screaming about him not doing anything, instead of celebrating that you got your way... that will be repeated on conservative media. I have seen this show before...



Schnell!!!

Even if Biden pushed through M4A tomorrow these people would still bitch and moan. Just let them QQ and focus on what’s actually important.

[Felya]

Even if Biden pushed through M4A tomorrow these people would still bitch and moan. Just let them QQ and focus on what’s actually important.

I know... I said similar just yesterday... I like themius though... their heart is in a good place...

Edit: Corrected the spelling of user name...

[Themius]

For the same reason you have issue with people who are satisfied? With a tiny request for consistency...



Oh dude... I am an equal opportunity “bitch”... I am not going to ignore progressives complaining about Biden not doing something, while taking credit for him doing it. Because in 4 years, it’s the screaming about him not doing anything, instead of celebrating that you got your way... that will be repeated on conservative media. I have seen this show before...



Schnell!!!

Edit: You know how I know that am on the correct track? Everyone from the left to the right and even the center... tells me to shut up...

Being told to shut up doesn't mean you're on the right track. The bullshit here is trying to dictate how others should feel that's the bull shit you should save that isn't you being on a track to anything.

I do not have an issue with people who are satisfied i have an issue with those people demanding others be like you are

The new deal with done with tremendous pressure from the left, does that mean the left doesn't get to complain when things were left out? What a crock of shit.

ACA at the time had support from the left does that mean the left doesn't get to bitch when ACA took a very weird approach to the medical system that didn't go far enough? What I do not understand is this attitude of "don't complain shut up. Progressives don't get to complain and push and push and then complain when parts of what they want gets passed"

If he passes M4A you mean to tell me I can't complain about American Imperialism? I complained about it under Clinton, Bush, and fucking Obama. I don't get to complain about the eventual war crimes that will be committed (all hints point to no end of this) because he did a thing progressives wanted?

Question yourself if he does pass M4A how he got there from I will veto it

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Even if Biden pushed through M4A tomorrow these people would still bitch and moan. Just let them QQ and focus on what’s actually important.

Seriously you centrist "shut the fuck up and take what you get" types are bogus to me.

If he passes M4A tell me how he got there... did he get there from people saying "let Biden be himself" or did he get there from the pressure from the outside? It seems fucking crazy to me that Americans in particular fall into this idea that people just should stfu when the status quo is back as if the status quo was roses.

Do you think other countries have social spending because they have a left-party that falls in line with the majority centrist party? Or because they fight and argue and push for what they want and what the public in general needs? This idea that you have is uniquely Americans and it doesn't clear work..

I recall the entire thing about Biden was that "constant pressure would be needed to push him but he will pass progressive policy if there is enough pressure from within and the public" did we all fucking forget that or something?

We can't both say:

"Biden needs pressure in order to pass progressive policy"

while also contending

"progressive stfu he's doing stuff zomg you just bitch and moan when he does stuff you don't like"

[Felya]

Question yourself if he does pass M4A how he got there from I will veto it

By doing something progressives can’t seem to do... the cost...

Think about it... if you actually give a shit about M4A. What’s the proper response to Biden saying he will veto it, if the cost isn’t established? Is it to complain that he won’t sign it or show him the cost so he doesn’t have an excuse?

You can guess which way I lean...

[Themius]

By doing something progressives can’t seem to do... the cost...

Think about it... if you actually give a shit about M4A. What’s the proper response to Biden saying he will veto it, if the cost isn’t established? Is it to complain that he won’t sign it or show him the cost so he doesn’t have an excuse?

You can guess which way I lean...

Costs are and have always been a shield used by both Democrats and Republicans to not do a thing...

Recall that one major problem we have is it was made illegal for the government to negotiate the price of prescriptions... a fucking bogus thing that makes no sense. Where the money will come from will be the wealthy.

I mean he could just pull an FDR we are in that moment now aren't we. But remember that FDR was pushed so far because of tremendous pressure from the very left that at the time had three parties and was way more established back then, than the left is today.

The issue is, and I posted about this before... America keeps trying to do medicare for all while also leaving out prescription and costs of care reform. They say some passive "we will lower prescription prices" with what legislation? What negotiation? The negotiation is illegal so is there a repeal of that to allow it?

Right now Biden is in "lower costs" mode, but how? It isn't exactly fleshed out...

How about a law saying the government gets a part of any profits for medicine and pays a steeply discounted price for it if government funds were used in its production. Considering.... every single approved medication has government funds.... I think that could work.

[Felya]

Costs are and have always been a shield used by both Democrats and Republicans to not do a thing...

We are not disagreeing here... the issue is how to break the shield. I think establishing the cost, so there is no excuse, is far better than figuring out who to blame. I’m personally tired of pointing out to conservatives, that we already pay more than we need for healthcare. I would like there to be an actual policy page that lays out the cost. So I can just link that, instead of posting a novel. It works on both the macro and micro...

[Themius]

We are not disagreeing here... the issue is how to break the shield. I think establishing the cost, so there is no excuse, is far better than figuring out who to blame. I’m personally tired of pointing out to conservatives, that we already pay more than we need for healthcare. I would like there to be an actual policy page that lays out the cost. So I can just link that, instead of posting a novel. It works on both the macro and micro...

I think the way to break that shield is to simply push harder from within and outside of the party from he left. Not to let things lie and try to work and compromise... that hasn't ever worked. Compromising with Republicans doesn't work, and nor does the left compromising with the democrats. If there is any compromise it should be met with more pressure for what you actually want. We have been through this time and time again and history has pretty much shown us the errors of getting comfortable and taking a breather... things begin to go back.

The solution there is for the majority to know that America pays more than any other developed nation for healthcare that actively bankrupts and kills them and the reason that is is because our own government decided to say it can't negotiate pricing because our government is corrupt af and filled with people who are considering where to land once they're done in Washington.

Do I want that job on merks board? Better play nice!

The thing is Biden knows... anyone who works in Washington damn well knows the issues of costs and how we got there. It's the public who is woefully ignorant and therefore doesn't use that argument to force the change. The democrats the republicans they all know it, but few, besides Bernie screams it. Katie Porter, AOC, some of the other progressives but they're a relatively small part.

[Vegas82]

@Themius you seem super confused buddy. I’m pushing for M4A and more. What I’m not doing is wasting time crying about Biden since he’ll sign pretty much any progressive legislation that actually makes it to his desk. I’m lobbying Congress to get that legislation done so it can make it to Biden’s desk. Until Biden does some horrible shit I’m going to give him credit for what he has done. So far he hasn’t fallen short with any of his actions, imo. There’s more I’d like to see get done, but he can’t just do that shit with the stroke of a pen.

[Themius]

@Themius you seem super confused buddy. I’m pushing for M4A and more. What I’m not doing is wasting time crying about Biden since he’ll sign pretty much any progressive legislation that actually makes it to his desk. I’m lobbying Congress to get that legislation done so it can make it to Biden’s desk. Until Biden does some horrible shit I’m going to give him credit for what he has done. So far he hasn’t fallen short with any of his actions, imo. There’s more I’d like to see get done, but he can’t just do that shit with the stroke of a pen.

He has fallen short in some of his picks and opinions already... in my view. The thing I am not celebrating Biden as a person I am as content as I can be with the pick, and am more concerned with what the outside forces on Biden will do in order to get progressive things done.

Out of the gate... he takes a similar stance as Trump to Venezuela with his pick Blinken being no better...

His foreign policy is honestly not very different from Trump or Bush or Obama. I mean look at his idea for fucking Iran.

Hinting at these flaws, Biden recently said he wants to build on the 2015 deal with a new agreement to “tighten and lengthen Iran’s nuclear constraints, as we address the missile program.”

This makes no fucking sense.

Look at it from Iran's perspective.

"So we were in a deal with the USA and a couple years later the USA undid it... now they have another president who wants us in the deal again which we didn't break but now they want tighter restrictions are they betrayed their word..."

Not to mention all the tough sanctions... oh yeah that'll get them to work!

[Omega10]

Look at it from Iran's perspective.

"So we were in a deal with the USA and a couple years later the USA undid it... now they have another president who wants us in the deal again which we didn't break but now they want tighter restrictions are they betrayed their word..."

Not to mention all the tough sanctions... oh yeah that'll get them to work!

It's not just Iran that is paying attention to how we deal with Iran. Every other country in the world knows that they could be next. The US plays hard ball. Other countries will start factoring that into their negotiating stances.

[Vegas82]

He has fallen short in some of his picks and opinions already... in my view. The thing I am not celebrating Biden as a person I am as content as I can be with the pick, and am more concerned with what the outside forces on Biden will do in order to get progressive things done.

Out of the gate... he takes a similar stance as Trump to Venezuela with his pick Blinken being no better...

His foreign policy is honestly not very different from Trump or Bush or Obama. I mean look at his idea for fucking Iran.



This makes no fucking sense.

Look at it from Iran's perspective.

"So we were in a deal with the USA and a couple years later the USA undid it... now they have another president who wants us in the deal again which we didn't break but now they want tighter restrictions are they betrayed their word..."

Not to mention all the tough sanctions... oh yeah that'll get them to work!

Iran is already saying they’re on board for re-entering the 2015 deal... details will be negotiated.

[Themius]

It's not just Iran that is paying attention to how we deal with Iran. Every other country in the world knows that they could be next. The US plays hard ball. Other countries will start factoring that into their negotiating stances.

maybe they'll just take us less seriously and exclude the US from deals later. The us doesn't play "hard ball" they play world immperialist. Hell at one point the US was considering a sort of title like that when they started taking over islands.

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Iran is already saying they’re on board for re-entering the 2015 deal... details will be negotiated.

Yes they're on board, but they're not exactly on board with the US wanting to not just re-enter but re-enter and boulster.

[Shadowferal]

I'm reminded of an acquaintance of mine that quit his support of the GOP during Obama's term when Libya was giung through their "spring," and the GOP complained about not helping them. And when the admin enforced a no-fly zone the GOP turned about-face and cried about escalation. "Fuck the GOP. I no longer have a party."

[Omega10]

I'm reminded of an acquaintance of mine that quit his support of the GOP during Obama's term when Libya was giung through their "spring," and the GOP complained about not helping them. And when the admin enforced a no-fly zone the GOP turned about-face and cried about escalation. "Fuck the GOP. I no longer have a party."

Another issue that the republican party is backtracking on?

Even the least bit of cooperation with the Biden administration.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/imperilin...093024429.html

Title: Imperiling quick $1,400 checks, moderate Republicans push back on Biden's economic plan

Excerpts:

Key moderate Republicans in the Senate dismissed quick action on President Joe Biden's top priority of a $1.9 trillion economic package, indicating that the $1,400 stimulus payments he requested could take months, or never arrive.

There are many quotes from moderate republican Senators, and the Mitt Romney one is the most to the point.

Sen. Mitt Romney R-Utah, a conservative who has a track record of breaking with his party, told NBC News that he isn't inclined to borrow another $1 trillion or even $500 billion for a broad economic package.

"My own view is that what's holding back the economy is Covid, not money," he said. "I want to do everything we can to get the Covid vaccines out. But once the Covid vaccine is out and people are inoculated, I believe you'll see the economy coming back."

In short, democrats can get exactly one bill through Congress over the next 2 years. At this point, everything else is just posturing for the 2022 elections, as well as using Executive Orders and Federal Agencies to enact as much policy as is reasonable to do.

And of course, make that one big bill count It's what democrats will be running on in 2022.

[Themius]

Another issue that the republican party is backtracking on?

Even the least bit of cooperation with the Biden administration.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/imperilin...093024429.html

Title: Imperiling quick $1,400 checks, moderate Republicans push back on Biden's economic plan

Excerpts:



There are many quotes from moderate republican Senators, and the Mitt Romney one is the most to the point.



In short, democrats can get exactly one bill through Congress over the next 2 years. At this point, everything else is just posturing for the 2022 elections, as well as using Executive Orders and Federal Agencies to enact as much policy as is reasonable to do.

And of course, make that one big bill count It's what democrats will be running on in 2022.

Mitt "250k is middle-class income" Romney?

[PACOX]

It always seemed to me that Biden was/is left of Obama on some things, and not willing to play the isdues as political chips to play. Obama shied away from the LGBT issue until Biden "gaffed" to the press about his full support.

I mean that's right if you ignore Biden's entire career and not the 8 years as a powerless VP who was gearing up for retirement.


Supposedly the Biden administration is working direct help to families. It will be great if the measure passes.

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Yes they're on board, but they're not exactly on board with the US wanting to not just re-enter but re-enter and boulster.

I'm not trying to be on Iran's side but if the re-enter on the same terms then they deserve to be screwed over again. Absolutely no way they'd re-enter without some favorable incentives.

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Reading the last few pages

Are some people actually arguing that progressives shouldnt take credit for pulling the part left? What kind of backwards logic...


Biden is a very well established centrists.
Progressives lobby for progressive policies
Biden mentions said policies.

Insecure Liberals: "STFU you progressive socialist. We were pushing that agenda all along. So what if we've never mentioned it before and it's the only thing you've talked about for the last 4 years. Look at the 'Cosplay Leftists' complain about us cosplaying as progressives. They aren't even complaining yet? Let's back them into a corner until they do! "

Gahdamn. I swear some core Dems hate allies from left more than they hate McConnell's GOP.

[Omega10]

Gahdamn. I swear some core Dems hate allies from left more than they hate McConnell's GOP.

Sometimes it feels like Biden supporters view McConnell > lefties like me = Trump.

They bring up anti-lefty stuff up in the oddest places too, many times out of the blue

[Themius]

Another issue that the republican party is backtracking on?

Even the least bit of cooperation with the Biden administration.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/imperilin...093024429.html

Title: Imperiling quick $1,400 checks, moderate Republicans push back on Biden's economic plan

Excerpts:



There are many quotes from moderate republican Senators, and the Mitt Romney one is the most to the point.



In short, democrats can get exactly one bill through Congress over the next 2 years. At this point, everything else is just posturing for the 2022 elections, as well as using Executive Orders and Federal Agencies to enact as much policy as is reasonable to do.

And of course, make that one big bill count It's what democrats will be running on in 2022.

Unless that bill is a combination of M4A and another new deal with the government raising taxes and hiring people like FDR had to do to remain in control.... looks like it'll be a bad 2022 and a bad 2024.

[Yadryonych]

Can't believe the shitshow continues. He's even steady on the way to beat trump's 200K record in just two months

<...>there’s nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the pandemic in the next several months.

Just four more years of building america better again

[szechuan]

Can't believe the shitshow continues. He's even steady on the way to beat trump's 200K record in just two months

Catturd is an idiotic Trumper,

Trump repeatedly refused to work with the Biden's Transition, The Biden administration found out that Trump had no plan to deal with the Coronavirus.

This is still Trump's fault.