Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Themius]

Productivity is a somewhat amorphous concept depending on the job and/or field. Cost of living is not. And we’re talking minimum wage, not wage scaling. If we went off productivity minimum wage for a shit worker would be slave wages.

You can have both you know. Depression of wages over time is a major problem and most of that just comes from the people who run companies abusing high productivity of their workers. A worker in the 1980s wasn't "more" productive flipping burgers than present workers are yet, despite that 1983 bls numbers have them on average making above $15 back then.

The issue we have is one where the person becomes more and more productive (also we work longer hours) yet wages are suppressed and all profits go to the very top which for the society as a whole... ain't such a good thing.

I want to address the gross imbalance that didn't use to exist in this way...and part of that would require for the very wealthy to either be taxed way more or to force higher payments downstream proportional to productivity. I'm pretty sure the majority of people wouldn't mind since it is the majority that would benefit.

[Themius]

Thank you for so convincingly arguing against the bullshit premise behind the supposed reasons for raising the minimum wage.

If you want to base it on productivity.. those who produce nothing, get nothing. Are you sure that's the argument you want to make?

Produce nothing? If you are working... you are producing something. do people get minimum wages if they aren't working? What an odd argument to bring up.

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It’s the argument being made. As such all we can do is wonder why they want automation to turn us all into slaves.

Which is just an argument for why there should be securities for housing, food, education that all people are privy to. Because the time will come.

[Felya]

Really we should have ubi, but that's pie in the sky.

It’s should fluctuate on a predetermined time interval. Maybe tie to the census...

There is no right number... not 25$ nor 15$...

[jonnysensible]

wait themius i dont mean this harshly but arent you some bougie landlord with generational wealth? or am i thinking about someone else.

[Machismo]

You can have both you know. Depression of wages over time is a major problem and most of that just comes from the people who run companies abusing high productivity of their workers. A worker in the 1980s wasn't "more" productive flipping burgers than present workers are yet, despite that 1983 bls numbers have them on average making above $15 back then.

The issue we have is one where the person becomes more and more productive (also we work longer hours) yet wages are suppressed and all profits go to the very top which for the society as a whole... ain't such a good thing.

I want to address the gross imbalance that didn't use to exist in this way...and part of that would require for the very wealthy to either be taxed way more or to force higher payments downstream proportional to productivity. I'm pretty sure the majority of people wouldn't mind since it is the majority that would benefit.

Bullshit.

Adjusted for inflation, it was never that high.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...46%20in%202014.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019...ear/index.html

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Produce nothing? If you are working... you are producing something. do people get minimum wages if they aren't working? What an odd argument to bring up.

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Which is just an argument for why there should be securities for housing, food, education that all people are privy to. Because the time will come.

So, people who are not working get nothing, right?

Thanks for arguing against welfare!!!

[Themius]

So, what dollar amount has to be hit, before you deem it progressive?

Considering that would be the highest minimum wage on the planet, you are now arguing that there are no progressive governments.

if you paid attention to my post you would see that I am going with the idea of a policy around wage inequality to address the core issue. That is what would be progressive. Wage increases that do not deal with the core issue is porgress, but they aren't a policy addressing the core issue. So there isn't a dollar amount, it is about the idea, the politics, the actions taken to solve the issue that is the policy, and ergo would be progressive. Right now we do not have a policy coming up but a bandaid as hopefully.... a policy comes some day.

[Machismo]

It’s the argument being made. As such all we can do is wonder why they want automation to turn us all into slaves.

What's wrong with progress?

Efficiency is wonderful, regardless of the lies being pushed by certain folks.

[Themius]

Bullshit.

Adjusted for inflation, it was never that high.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...46%20in%202014.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019...ear/index.html

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So, people who are not working get nothing, right?

Thanks for arguing against welfare!!!

People who are not working do not get a minimum wage. But now you've gone from minimum wage to an entirely different problem.

You are assuming all fast food workers made the same... they didn't.

For instance, food prep/food counter people made weekly $191 for men and $160 for women.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1985/01/rpt1full.pdf

$191 in today's money is about $515, assuming 40 hours That's about $12.87 If you go instead for purchasing power.. it is $636 $15.9

If you go for relative income compared to per capita then it goes quite a bit high to be about $20.07

You know... looking through all these the only jobs today that paid the same (or more) were those in tech, that's it. Every other sector has seen less.

[Machismo]

if you paid attention to my post you would see that I am going with the idea of a policy around wage inequality to address the core issue. That is what would be progressive. Wage increases that do not deal with the core issue is porgress, but they aren't a policy addressing the core issue. So there isn't a dollar amount, it is about the idea, the politics, the actions taken to solve the issue that is the policy, and ergo would be progressive. Right now we do not have a policy coming up but a bandaid as hopefully.... a policy comes some day.

You are pushing for straight wealth redistribution and forced mass socialism. No thanks.

Thank God you guys have stopped pretending it's about the "living wages."

Oh, and you got caught being wrong, again.

[Machismo]

People who are not working do not get a minimum wage. But now you've gone from minimum wage to an entirely different problem.

Are you going to address that you got caught lying about wages?

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Nothing, so long as you make sure it doesn’t leave people homeless and starving in the streets.

Great, if you care so much, then give them more... of your money. I'm simply going to speak up if you push to take more of someone else's money.

[Felya]

Who is arguing against biden about the $15 hike?

Tell me if you think this is funny... people are taking your assertion that Biden isn’t progressive on minimum wage, as an affront. How cool is that?

[jonnysensible]

You are pushing for straight wealth redistribution and forced mass socialism. No thanks.

Thank God you guys have stopped pretending it's about the "living wages."

Oh, and you got caught being wrong, again.

whats wrong with a wealth tax, wait you are the bougie landlord arent you!

[beanman12345]

Why? Please tell me why I am crazy if I think that? I mean so far all that has happened is all productivity increases go to the very top and the majority of the country suffers for it... why do you think as people become more productive they should be paid relatively less while the people at the very top should be paid more and more and more?

people at the very top, their salaries aren't all that amazeballs, it's why you see PR stunts where CEO's say "oh I'm not gonna take any pay for such and such" like united and american airlines recently did. Reality however is that they're getting shit ton in stock portfolio's and other shit they're given, and they're making crap tons of money despite foregoing salary making ignorant think it's praiseworthy but reality it pays to be where they are with or without a salary.

[Felya]

whats wrong with a wealth tax, wait you are the bougie landlord arent you!

Libertarian.

[Machismo]

whats wrong with a wealth tax, wait you are the bougie landlord arent you!

There's plenty wrong with forced wealth redistribution. Where would you like to start?

[jonnysensible]

There's plenty wrong with forced wealth redistribution. Where would you like to start?

go on explain to me why a wealth tax is bad. are you really going down the taxation is theft route?

[Machismo]

Libertarian.

I also rent out two homes, so he's not wrong. Of course, considering I offered my tenants free rent through the Covid shitshow, and charge well under what is the norm for those areas, I'm guessing he may not want to pull that card.

[Machismo]

go on explain to me why a wealth tax is bad. are you really going down the taxation is theft route?

A wealth tax is bad, because it is an authoritarian attack on capitalism itself. It's literally punishing people for earning more, and saving more money. Being responsible with your money is a good thing, and should not be punished.

Start with that.

You literally want to punish people for being more responsible.

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If you care so much go live in the woods and stop using my roads. I pay more for them than you do you socialist.

I highly doubt you do.

Believe me, I'd love to privatize roads, let's do it!!!

[Thepersona]

There's plenty wrong with forced wealth redistribution. Where would you like to start?

Uhm, there isnt anything wrong with wealth redistribution, if said redistribution is done for the greater good of the community. Mostly because without that, wealth inequality will be a worse and worse poblem down the generations, and high wealth inequality is actually bad for the economy, and pretty much everything.

PS: Aren't you happy that we can talk and discuss these important things, instead of whatever the orange cancer spewed from his oral orifice?

[beanman12345]

It’s should fluctuate on a predetermined time interval. Maybe tie to the census...

There is no right number... not 25$ nor 15$...

Also where you live plays a big factor, you are right there is no right number, because $15 in NYC isn't gonna get you as far as $15 in Toledo Ohio.