1. #3001
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    They can do both.

    I'm willing to bet the USA dropped more bombs that cost over $2000 each over the past decade than there are US citizens.
    Out of curiosity.

    Who do you think built those bombs? Who designed them? Who employed those people? Who contracted with their employer?

  2. #3002
    So... Joe Manchin is more or less gonna keep anything from getting done for the next two years isnt he?
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  3. #3003
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Instead of giving people stimulus checks, give sustainable jobs. More career opportunities, more entry level jobs, more job progression.
    This isn't a binary choice. You can do both.

    And it's Republicans opposing both, here. This isn't a case of a choice where the Democrats are choosing badly, it's two things that should both be done, and only the Democrats are pushing either forward.


  4. #3004
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    So... Joe Manchin is more or less gonna keep anything from getting done for the next two years isnt he?
    It sure seems that way. If not, one of the Arizona Senators can run interference if he weakens. There won't even be a decent reconciliation package that will be passed.

    The best that can be done is for democrats to propose moderate liberal bills and bring them to a vote in the Senate. If the republicans want to filibuster them, make them read Green Eggs and Ham over and over to keep Trump supporters (and other Americans) from getting $2k stimulus checks. Maybe they will crack, maybe they will not.

    Democrats need to start looking ahead to 2022. They may have already accomplished everything they will get until then. In the meantime, democrats need to make it clear that they did what they could to get aid to Trump supporters (and other Americans), but Manchin and republicans had too much power to overcome.

  5. #3005
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Instead of giving people stimulus checks, give sustainable jobs. More career opportunities, more entry level jobs, more job progression.
    That’s socialism... you can’t have government hiring the unemployed

  6. #3006
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    That’s socialism... you can’t have government hiring the unemployed
    We SHOULD have the government hiring the unemployed. A socialist infrastructure project would employ lots of Americans and start rebuilding America. This would be a win win. This is just one more good reason why we need to have some solid socialism to deal with the sharp edges of capitalism.

  7. #3007
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    We SHOULD have the government hiring the unemployed. A socialist infrastructure project would employ lots of Americans and start rebuilding America. This would be a win win. This is just one more good reason why we need to have some solid socialism to deal with the sharp edges of capitalism.
    Would it be some kind of NEW DEAL, do you think?

  8. #3008
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Would it be some kind of NEW DEAL, do you think?
    The problem with the old deal was that as usual... reforms can be undone over time.

  9. #3009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    It sure seems that way. If not, one of the Arizona Senators can run interference if he weakens. There won't even be a decent reconciliation package that will be passed.

    The best that can be done is for democrats to propose moderate liberal bills and bring them to a vote in the Senate. If the republicans want to filibuster them, make them read Green Eggs and Ham over and over to keep Trump supporters (and other Americans) from getting $2k stimulus checks. Maybe they will crack, maybe they will not.

    Democrats need to start looking ahead to 2022. They may have already accomplished everything they will get until then. In the meantime, democrats need to make it clear that they did what they could to get aid to Trump supporters (and other Americans), but Manchin and republicans had too much power to overcome.
    That's not going to work. The Democrats have too much to fix to pass one bill in two years and call it good. The GOP is going to take Trump and his money making machine and try and flip the House. The GOP already knows that GOP Senators are more secure than it seems - given the 2020 results with only a few flips.

    The Democrats need multiple successes - COVID, infrastructure, healthcare, etc - all need to have some landmark passages. The Democrats CANNOT afford to let the minority GOP stymie any legislation moving forward. The GOP did this to Obama and it worked - we lost everything, almost forever.

    Manchin is going to be difficult, certainly, but there are always those kinds of people in the House or Senate. The Democrats MUST keep moving though. In 2022 they need to point to a recovering economy, COVID almost gone, and infrastructure being addressed.

  10. #3010
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/03/stim...price-tag.html

    I heard that Jared Bernstein guy was a conservative, pro-austerity neoliberal. Why is he out there actively defending Biden's $1.9T covid relief plan? Seems a bit odd for a conservative, pro-austerity neoliberal.

  11. #3011
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s looking like it might mean that people like me, will not be getting the 1600. Latest news is that it might be limited to who can get the stimulus. Just to be clear, I am not struggling at the moment... don’t know what tomorrow brings, but so far so good. If I am holding back the checks to those who need it, that would be a crime.
    I fully agree. However, if you qualified for the first round, you should get the additional $1400. Make a new means test for future COVID-19 relief.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Instead of giving people stimulus checks, give sustainable jobs. More career opportunities, more entry level jobs, more job progression.
    Like what fucking rock have you been under. Biden wants to raise the min wage wich will do a tremendous amount of lifting people out of some this mess. He also wants to go big on infrastructure which would've akin to the highway jobs program under Eisenhower. However, direct cash to people is the easiest way to help.

  12. #3012
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's not going to work. The Democrats have too much to fix to pass one bill in two years and call it good. The GOP is going to take Trump and his money making machine and try and flip the House. The GOP already knows that GOP Senators are more secure than it seems - given the 2020 results with only a few flips.

    The Democrats need multiple successes - COVID, infrastructure, healthcare, etc - all need to have some landmark passages. The Democrats CANNOT afford to let the minority GOP stymie any legislation moving forward. The GOP did this to Obama and it worked - we lost everything, almost forever.

    Manchin is going to be difficult, certainly, but there are always those kinds of people in the House or Senate. The Democrats MUST keep moving though. In 2022 they need to point to a recovering economy, COVID almost gone, and infrastructure being addressed.
    I agree with everything you said 100%. Unfortunately, there is not really a lot that democrats can do. The best that Biden will be able to do is to revive for example the EPA and enforce laws that are already on the books. Put some pressure on the wavering Senate democrats to get as much as possible in one big reconciliation package and then plan for 2022 as much as possible.

  13. #3013
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    ... and to no surprise... Democrats pass 1.9 billion in the house... off to the senate...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  14. #3014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    They can do both.

    I'm willing to bet the USA dropped more bombs that cost over $2000 each over the past decade than there are US citizens.
    Not even close. The most common guided US bomb, JDAM, has total production numbers in the 500,000 range since its introduction in 1998. The number of bombs used in Afghanistan has not exceeded 7500 per year over the past decade. The US population exceeds 330,000,000.

  15. #3015
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    They can do both.

    I'm willing to bet the USA dropped more bombs that cost over $2000 each over the past decade than there are US citizens.
    You think the US dropped 331 million bombs in the last decade?

  16. #3016
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    You think the US dropped 331 million bombs in the last decade?
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...in-2019-report

    Considering 2019 was apparently a record 7,432 bombs on Afghanistan, the most since the beginning of the war, and there are no other areas where we drop anywhere near as many bombs...I'm gonna go with the total being well, well below 331/2 million (whatever we're at now).

    Though they don't seem particularly interested in facts.

  17. #3017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    You think the US dropped 331 million bombs in the last decade?
    The US dropped less than 33 million on Vietnam in 10 years....

  18. #3018
    So as someone who isn't very educated in how all of this works, after a election.

    Can someone give me the details on where we are at with the stimulus plan? Figured this would be the best thread to ask.
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  19. #3019
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    So as someone who isn't very educated in how all of this works, after a election.

    Can someone give me the details on where we are at with the stimulus plan? Figured this would be the best thread to ask.
    GOP tried to counter the $1.9 trillion with about $600 billion with Biden in a private meeting. The house said fuck that and I believe passed the $1.9 trillion today, and sent it to the senate, where they can pass it without Republican support if they want.

  20. #3020
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    GOP tried to counter the $1.9 trillion with about $600 billion with Biden in a private meeting. The house said fuck that and I believe passed the $1.9 trillion today, and sent it to the senate, where they can pass it without Republican support if they want.
    Ok that's what I though but I just wanted to be sure. So once the Senate pass's it Biden signs it and its done correct?

    Also any idea when the Senate will deal with it?
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2021-02-04 at 05:18 AM.
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