Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Belize]

Isn't it weird how Theo keeps hiding from this thread ever since the horrible take that Biden should be blamed for Republican plans?

Well it also helps that she's banned

[Breccia]

I can live with this.

About time. There are people who can't live without it.

[Thekri]

I'm not an unreasonable person, nobody can please everyone all of the time, and it is perfectly reasonable for me to point out where I am not pleased. You don't say anything I didn't take into consideration, but I still feel the way I do, and I will continue to feel that way until ICE is taken care of.

Exactly, completely agree. Instead of the last 4 years of absolutist madness, where everyone either completely agreed, or completely disagreed with the President, it is good to be back in the normal state of reality where you can agree or disagree with the President in general, while still voicing disagreement with individual policies.

This is what responsible government and accountability looks like. You don't have to simply accept a politician as good or bad, you also get to pressure them on areas you feel they are not doing enough in. Ultimately of course you have to decide to reelect them, but that is still 4 years off, so not relevant for a while.

I was initially against abolishing ICE. But the more I have learned since then the more I am on board with it. The most generous possible explanation for their behavior is that they have a severely flawed culture, and have not established good accountability. I am not inclined to be that generous. They seem to be an absolutely revolting organization that is so far removed from any decent purpose that there is no purpose in their continued existence.

[Benggaul]

I'm not an unreasonable person, nobody can please everyone all of the time, and it is perfectly reasonable for me to point out where I am not pleased. You don't say anything I didn't take into consideration, but I still feel the way I do, and I will continue to feel that way until ICE is taken care of.

FWIW, I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid. Consider my response a knee-jerk reaction to the dozens of times I've read this past week that people are taking Biden to task for not addressing their pet issue--some of them from bad actors on these forums. But I think there's room for debate on these things whereas the past 4 years there really wasn't.

[draynay]

FWIW, I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid. Consider my response a knee-jerk reaction to the dozens of times I've read this past week that people are taking Biden to task for not addressing their pet issue--some of them from bad actors on these forums. But I think there's room for debate on these things whereas the past 4 years there really wasn't.

I know why you reacted the way you did, and needed to be reminded not everyone here is crazy.

[Benggaul]

I know why you reacted the way you did, and needed to be reminded not everyone here is crazy.

Nah, I know you're not. Like I said, it was more a reaction towards others than what you wrote. I think the only difference between your position and mine on this subject is I'm willing to give him a bit more time on this one issue because my personal inclination is to set the COVID-19 response at a higher priority.

[infinitemeridian]

Wait so...the $15 minimum wage increase in the stimulus is actually a $15 minimum wage by 2025? Are Dems serious right now?

[Edge-]

Wait so...the $15 minimum wage increase in the stimulus is actually a $15 minimum wage by 2025? Are Dems serious right now?

...yes? Which is how almost every jump in minimum wage has gone in cities/states, it's a phased approach so that businesses can adapt over time to it and to limit problems.

Was it ever supposed to happen overnight. Is that remotely wise to do all at once?

[infinitemeridian]

...yes? Which is how almost every jump in minimum wage has gone in cities/states, it's a phased approach so that businesses can adapt over time to it and to limit problems.

Was it ever supposed to happen overnight. Is that remotely wise to do all at once?

What good will a $15 minimum wage be in 2025? Isn't $15 already greatly below what it should be right now? I'm not sure what I expected then - is the fight for an actual living wage something not possible because we'll always have to accept to be "behind" the curve?

[Edge-]

What good will a $15 minimum wage be in 2025?

It'll be more than double what it is now, which is better. Why not look at the inflation rates and predictions on how that will change over the next 5 years? 5 years isn't that long a time for an economy.

Isn't $15 already greatly below what it should be right now?

Is it? By what measure? How does it compare to other developed countries with higher minimum wages than the US currently has?

I'm not sure what I expected then - is the fight for an actual living wage something not possible because we'll always have to accept to be "behind" the curve?

No, this is the fight for a living wage. It's not an answer that's gonna make folks who will benefit from this happy because it's not immediate, but this is like, macroeconomic shit, not microeconomic shit.

It's like, the same thing proposed by Sanders and other progressives for years, it's a phased approach. Here's his bill he introduced in 2019 - https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...enate-bill/150

Which provides for a 7 year phased approach to reaching $15/h.

This is what I keep saying about paying attention, you learn a lot when you do.

[TigTone]

What good will a $15 minimum wage be in 2025? Isn't $15 already greatly below what it should be right now? I'm not sure what I expected then - is the fight for an actual living wage something not possible because we'll always have to accept to be "behind" the curve?

I work at $15 dollars a hour and it’s shit. It is not enough. I can’t really save enough money for a real emergency.

For example If my car breaks down It’s going to stay dead for a few months.

To be fair though I live in California but in a lower cost area of it.

[Fugus]

If they are going to do the $15 minimum wage, they NEED to have it indexed to inflation and productivity and adjusted annually. And they need to base it on $15 an hour around 2007 or so if not earlier.

While it is better than nothing, we will end up needing ANOTHER minimum wage increase before this one is full implemented it feels like. Getting the wage increase so late that it is worth about the same as minimum wage when it was first needed is pretty close to standing still. Better than continuing to lose ground, but still a half measure, honestly a quarter measure when the full measure is needed.

[Benggaul]

I work at $15 dollars a hour and it’s shit. It is not enough. I can’t really save enough money for a real emergency.

For example If my car breaks down It’s going to stay dead for a few months.

To be fair though I live in California but in a lower cost area of it.

But are you better or worse off than if you worked for $7? You being in CA means you're on the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to "living wage" and it's reasons like that the raise to the minimum wage is only a partial solution for the problem. It's why each state should be setting a minimum (not below the federal limit) that ensures everyone can make a living wage based on that state's economy. Raising the federal minimum wage won't solve all of the problems, but--and correct me if I'm wrong, anyone--it will mean that people in your state, for example, can't be paid less than the federal limit.

[Breccia]

Are Dems serious right now?

Yes.

What good will a $15 minimum wage be in 2025?

What good will a $7.25 minimum wage be in 2025?

Also, your apparent ire about this not being good enough, should be aimed at the party stopping any increase at all. Which is not the Democrats.

[TigTone]

But are you better or worse off than if you worked for $7? You being in CA means you're on the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to "living wage" and it's reasons like that the raise to the minimum wage is only a partial solution for the problem. It's why each state should be setting a minimum (not below the federal limit) that ensures everyone can make a living wage based on that state's economy. Raising the federal minimum wage won't solve all of the problems, but--and correct me if I'm wrong, anyone--it will mean that people in your state, for example, can't be paid less than the federal limit.

I agree with your statement, each state needs to evaluate what would be a fair wage for its residents.

In a country like America there really shouldn’t be this much poverty.

[Kasierith]

What good will a $15 minimum wage be in 2025? Isn't $15 already greatly below what it should be right now? I'm not sure what I expected then - is the fight for an actual living wage something not possible because we'll always have to accept to be "behind" the curve?

It's something like 12 cents above the ideal minimum wage for cost of living expenses nationally, when taking into account median wages, the cost of the most common goods and services, and average expenses per dependents. Will be over middle of nowhere Wyoming, under standard of living for southern California.

[Shadowferal]

The moment the $15 min wage thing passes...time to up the deal and argue for $20.

[NED funded]

What good will a $15 minimum wage be in 2025? Isn't $15 already greatly below what it should be right now? I'm not sure what I expected then - is the fight for an actual living wage something not possible because we'll always have to accept to be "behind" the curve?

If you feel that your minimum wage is too low you can always get it done for your state

The 15 minimum is the absolute minmum for literally everyone in the US not just California and nY

[Felya]

The moment the $15 min wage thing passes...time to up the deal and argue for $20.

It should be just over 24$...

[Shadowferal]

...$hit...need a raise.