1. #4481
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Yes everything you said is completely true. It also strengthens the US in the battle against China. Higher wages means bigger domestic market means more imports means more leverage around the world.

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    What Trump did in Yemen sucked, and what Biden did in Syria sucked. What Trump did in Yemen was worse because it did substantially more damage and was sustained over a longer period of time.
    Biden is only continuing what Trump did in Yemen though so... idk if he's really "worse" at this point or they're both the same on this particular issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  2. #4482
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    One thing I will Trump some credit for: he really did make an effort to try to push back against this. He was not really successful at it, but at least he tried.
    Trump increased bombing and arm sales after Obama. If Trump didn’t pull out of Iran peace treaty, neither the attack on US troops nor this retaliation would happen. What Trump succeeded in, is making people ignore US military bombings for 4 years.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  3. #4483
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    I'm not really sure why people are up in arms about drone striking some Iran-backed militias that are fighting for a theocratic Iranian regional hegemony, and as retaliation for their missile strikes no less. What's the alternative? Leave the region be, let Iran occupy Iraq and Syria with Russia's blessing, and allow China/Iran/Russia to consolidate into a second iron curtain? That somehow seems a little bit worse. America can't ignore its oversees interests in an interconnected world while other countries have no reservations about playing the same dangerous geopolitical games.

  4. #4484
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underverse View Post
    I'm not really sure why people are up in arms about drone striking some Iran-backed militias that are fighting for a theocratic Iranian regional hegemony, and as retaliation for their missile strikes no less. What's the alternative? Leave the region be, let Iran occupy Iraq and Syria with Russia's blessing, and allow China/Iran/Russia to consolidate into a second iron curtain? That somehow seems a little bit worse. America can't ignore its oversees interests in an interconnected world while other countries have no reservations about playing the same dangerous geopolitical games.
    Because people are sick of America World Police and this is an international forum. This case being justified or not is irrelevant...

    If nothing else... if a democrat in office brings attention back to US military strikes, that’s a good thing. Just don’t ‘boy who cried wolf’ this thing...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #4485
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underverse View Post
    I'm not really sure why people are up in arms about drone striking some Iran-backed militias that are fighting for a theocratic Iranian regional hegemony, and as retaliation for their missile strikes no less. What's the alternative? Leave the region be, let Iran occupy Iraq and Syria with Russia's blessing, and allow China/Iran/Russia to consolidate into a second iron curtain? That somehow seems a little bit worse. America can't ignore its oversees interests in an interconnected world while other countries have no reservations about playing the same dangerous geopolitical games.
    Lets just forgot how often innocent men and woman die.

    And yes, the US won't ignore it, does not mean they are any better than the countries(Russia, Iran, China) they pretend to oppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It didn't bother you when Trump was doing this shit in Yemen.
    And it does not bother you when Biden does it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  6. #4486
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Biden has only been in about a month, give him time. He will drone it up just like Obama.
    Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama’s numbers

    Cool, so he’s going to reduce the drone strikes to pre-Trump levels.

  7. #4487
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Who chants "Dems Losing 2020" more?
    • Very Online Leftists and Podcasters
    • The crowd at CPAC

    Pack it in libs, we've lost the Working MAn vote. Also people that paid scalper prices for PS5s and were counting on $2k checks (cheques for the brit stans).





    See also: "Bide has DemeneTiA", did it start first on Fox news or TYT?
    Still shitting on leftists for opposing war and actually wanting anything that benefits the lower classes, never change.



    No, really, you should never change, its a great source of entertainment. Keep complaining about people being very online while mostly using lingo that only those sort of people understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  8. #4488
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Lets just forgot how often innocent men and woman die.

    And yes, the US won't ignore it, does not mean they are any better than the countries(Russia, Iran, China) they pretend to oppose.

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    And it does not bother you when Biden does it.
    It has long bothered me when authoritarians kill innocent people.

    it does not bother me nearly as much when authoritarians kill violent asshats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #4489
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama’s numbers

    Cool, so he’s going to reduce the drone strikes to pre-Trump levels.
    Its cool that the US is still bombing the shit of the ME? Obama already caused untold amount of damage. That is not a good thing.


    The fuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It has long bothered me when authoritarians kill innocent people.

    it does not bother me nearly as much when authoritarians kill violent asshats.
    So you hate Biden now? Or do you actually belief the US when they claim only enemy combatants die during those strikes?
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2021-02-26 at 10:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  10. #4490
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/330194/...t-decline.aspx



    And the sentiment in the US is improving after a pretty abysmal 2020 due to covid. It's almost back up to the November spike (WONDER WHY IT SPIKED), so hopefully it'll continue to trend upwards as we get through covid and don't have a basket of deplorables running the country.

  11. #4491
    Quote Originally Posted by Underverse View Post
    I'm not really sure why people are up in arms about drone striking some Iran-backed militias that are fighting for a theocratic Iranian regional hegemony, and as retaliation for their missile strikes no less. What's the alternative? Leave the region be, let Iran occupy Iraq and Syria with Russia's blessing, and allow China/Iran/Russia to consolidate into a second iron curtain? That somehow seems a little bit worse. America can't ignore its oversees interests in an interconnected world while other countries have no reservations about playing the same dangerous geopolitical games.
    The US loses a lot more prestige by engaging in these kinds of military maneuvers then by focusing on economic issues and nation building abilities.

    In Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen and Libya and Syria, we have proved over and over and over ad nausam that we are willing to go the extra mile in bombing and killing and destroying other whole countries. At least other smallish countries. The result of all of this is that we are hated worldwide, and a large number of people throughout the world view the US as the number 1 threat to peace in the world.

    All of our military actions in the Middle East has basically given the US a black eye - well lots of them. It has also cost the US a HUGE amount of money. That 10 trillion or so dollars we have spent on our military since the year 2000 would have bought very good health care and a very modern up to date and really cool transportation / mass transit system throughout the whole country. Which incidentally would have helped considerably vs the virus and generated a LOT of wealth for a LOT of Americans.

    Your approach to the world is being acted upon by the US, and the main result overall is that EU can China are emerging as the main global powers, with the US third and other countries further down the list. If your approach continues to be applied by the US, then we will fall further than third.

  12. #4492
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Its cool that the US is still bombing the shit of the ME? Obama already caused untold amount of damage. That is not a good thing.


    The fuck

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    So you hate Biden now? Or do you actually belief the US when they claim only enemy combatants die during those strikes?
    No, it’s cool that we’ll be reducing such actions. Weird jump to make that I was cheering for drone strikes.

  13. #4493
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Its cool that the US is still bombing the shit of the ME? Obama already caused untold amount of damage. That is not a good thing.


    The fuck

    - - - Updated - - -



    So you hate Biden now? Or do you actually belief the US when they claim only enemy combatants die during those strikes?
    I never liked Biden. I sure as shit didn't vote for him. As for this specific strike, who was killed in it? If it's violent asshats, I don't much care. If it's innocent civilians, then fuck the administration.

    Of course, I'm not a devout Trumpster like some posters...
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  14. #4494
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Biden has only been in about a month, give him time. He will drone it up just like Obama.
    As will every US President. It is the nature of the world we live in. However, nuance is a thing that exists, and there are fundamentally different ways to go about things. The article I talked about this morning is a clear example of this. In 2015, Trump publicly talked about the need to kill the families of terrorists, and how he was going to resolve the conflicts just by killing more people. This exhibited a complete lack of understanding of the situation, but unfortunately it wasn't an idle threat. In 2018, Gina Haspel was approved by the senate to lead the CIA, which led to the operations discussed in the intercept. Those Madrasas that were getting shot up are definitely teaching and spreading radicalism, but previous administrations balked at the idea of shooting up schools full of children. Haspel's CIA apparently led such operations in Wardak Province at least, and I would be stunned if they didn't do similar operations across Central Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa. The article was focused on Wardak, because that is where the reporter was, but I doubt it was isolated. It was policy.

    That is the difference here. There is a profound difference between military strikes in Syria, some of which are absolutely necessary, and a program specifically focusing on slaughtering schoolchildren to preempt indoctrination. All military strikes are not equal, how you do it matters a fucking lot. There is no shortage of assholes that need to die in Syria. Striking them is both appropriate and necessary. Slaughtering entire people groups, killing children as policy, and hurting the helpless is something else altogether. The mechanism of the strike doesn't matter, Drones are a tool, using them is not inherently moral or immoral. What you are blowing up makes the difference.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  15. #4495
    This would be a lot less of an issue if Congress writ-large simply rescinded the AUMF and took responsibility for authorizing military action back.

    But nobody, not in any party, wants to do that. Because then that's one more liability for their re-elections. If they green light a military strike that turns bad, they may be out of a job come the next election.

    Congress should be the ones to authorize military actions like this. And if they want to give some of that authority to the White House for quick responses in certain regions, they should do so with clear limitations and oversight of the actions.

  16. #4496
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This would be a lot less of an issue if Congress writ-large simply rescinded the AUMF and took responsibility for authorizing military action back.

    But nobody, not in any party, wants to do that. Because then that's one more liability for their re-elections. If they green light a military strike that turns bad, they may be out of a job come the next election.

    Congress should be the ones to authorize military actions like this. And if they want to give some of that authority to the White House for quick responses in certain regions, they should do so with clear limitations and oversight of the actions.
    That is part of it, the other part is that the line between military and non-military actions have become incredibly blurred. They were already pretty vague in Vietnam, they have gotten more so since then. In military speak, we refer to them as "Three Letter Organizations" as they are host of federal agencies using different names, usually a three letter acronym. The CIA rarely operates under its own name, so it is responsible for some of them, but others are harder to trace. Remember those people in Portland with no name tags? Yeah, that sort of shit is everywhere overseas.

    The military does not have exclusive control of state sponsored violence overseas, although I would argue it absolutely should. Military actions are too easy to track, too easy to hold accountable. Instead it is a network of contractors and government agents, usually working with multiple degrees of separation from any federal official. It is a cancer that has been allowed to grow because it shields the political class from consequences. These groups can and do call military strikes, and the Air Force does not even operate all the armed drones. A significant number of these strikes are planned and/or executed by other agencies. Most often they are carried out by the military, but the military isn't involved in the targeting process, they are just given a delivery address. I remember my commander straight up refusing one of these "requests" because they refused to tell him who actually approved it. It had the required approvals, but the names were redacted.

    This sort of shit has to stop. It made me feel sick to my stomach then, and it hasn't gotten better since. Throwing ordinance down range with no idea who it is aimed at is disgusting. I never did it, never would do it, but I know it happens a lot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    How would you know? You're brand new here.

    Evidence, please.
    Oh, he has been stalking me for about three years, don't worry about it.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  17. #4497
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    That is part of it, the other part is that the line between military and non-military actions have become incredibly blurred. They were already pretty vague in Vietnam, they have gotten more so since then. In military speak, we refer to them as "Three Letter Organizations" as they are host of federal agencies using different names, usually a three letter acronym. The CIA rarely operates under its own name, so it is responsible for some of them, but others are harder to trace. Remember those people in Portland with no name tags? Yeah, that sort of shit is everywhere overseas.

    The military does not have exclusive control of state sponsored violence overseas, although I would argue it absolutely should. Military actions are too easy to track, too easy to hold accountable. Instead it is a network of contractors and government agents, usually working with multiple degrees of separation from any federal official. It is a cancer that has been allowed to grow because it shields the political class from consequences. These groups can and do call military strikes, and the Air Force does not even operate all the armed drones. A significant number of these strikes are planned and/or executed by other agencies. Most often they are carried out by the military, but the military isn't involved in the targeting process, they are just given a delivery address. I remember my commander straight up refusing one of these "requests" because they refused to tell him who actually approved it. It had the required approvals, but the names were redacted.

    This sort of shit has to stop. It made me feel sick to my stomach then, and it hasn't gotten better since. Throwing ordinance down range with no idea who it is aimed at is disgusting. I never did it, never would do it, but I know it happens a lot.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh, he has been stalking me for about three years, don't worry about it.
    Oh, I know who it is, I refer to him as the Brexit Burner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  18. #4498
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    As will every US President. It is the nature of the world we live in. However, nuance is a thing that exists, and there are fundamentally different ways to go about things. The article I talked about this morning is a clear example of this. In 2015, Trump publicly talked about the need to kill the families of terrorists, and how he was going to resolve the conflicts just by killing more people. This exhibited a complete lack of understanding of the situation, but unfortunately it wasn't an idle threat. In 2018, Gina Haspel was approved by the senate to lead the CIA, which led to the operations discussed in the intercept. Those Madrasas that were getting shot up are definitely teaching and spreading radicalism, but previous administrations balked at the idea of shooting up schools full of children. Haspel's CIA apparently led such operations in Wardak Province at least, and I would be stunned if they didn't do similar operations across Central Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa. The article was focused on Wardak, because that is where the reporter was, but I doubt it was isolated. It was policy.

    That is the difference here. There is a profound difference between military strikes in Syria, some of which are absolutely necessary, and a program specifically focusing on slaughtering schoolchildren to preempt indoctrination. All military strikes are not equal, how you do it matters a fucking lot. There is no shortage of assholes that need to die in Syria. Striking them is both appropriate and necessary. Slaughtering entire people groups, killing children as policy, and hurting the helpless is something else altogether. The mechanism of the strike doesn't matter, Drones are a tool, using them is not inherently moral or immoral. What you are blowing up makes the difference.
    What happens in the real world is that everyone lumps the strikes "slaughtering entire people groups and killing children as policy" with all the rest of them. And when the US tries to claim that a particular strike was warranted because X, Y, and Z, no one believes us. Finally, we don't have a lot of credibility for calling out other countries for human rights abuses when people think that we are "slaughtering entire people groups and killing children as policy" on a regular basis.

  19. #4499
    Quote Originally Posted by Underverse View Post
    I'm not really sure why people are up in arms about drone striking some Iran-backed militias that are fighting for a theocratic Iranian regional hegemony, and as retaliation for their missile strikes no less. What's the alternative? Leave the region be, let Iran occupy Iraq and Syria with Russia's blessing, and allow China/Iran/Russia to consolidate into a second iron curtain? That somehow seems a little bit worse. America can't ignore its oversees interests in an interconnected world while other countries have no reservations about playing the same dangerous geopolitical games.
    I wasn't aware the US had some right to overlordship on a continent the United States isn't even physically on? And bombing and slaughtering people and building a world spanning Empire seems, you know, evil.

    I mean if we just acknowledge that is what is being done, I can at least respect the honesty of it, but pretending "Our shenanigans are cheeky and fun, their shenanigans are cruel!" is just ridiculous.

  20. #4500
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I wasn't aware the US had some right to overlordship on a continent the United States isn't even physically on? And bombing and slaughtering people and building a world spanning Empire seems, you know, evil.

    I mean if we just acknowledge that is what is being done, I can at least respect the honesty of it, but pretending "Our shenanigans are cheeky and fun, their shenanigans are cruel!" is just ridiculous.
    Then, why do you choose to live here?

    It didn't bother you when Trump was doing it, but you are suddenly outraged...
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

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