Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Theodarzna]

You don’t even vote, by your claim, and then pretend the Dems are the GOP. Why do you think your concern trolling is worth more than actually participating in the political process? Are you still a teacher in California?

This will be the default Dem position in less than two years:


As for my beliefs? I spend any time in discussion here just trying to state what they are amidst the vast sea noise of people such as yourself looking to shadowbox with some imaginary Republican.

[Fugus]

I cannot wait for her seat to be up and for many here to strongly advocate re-electing her for Harm Reduction and some schlop of Intersectional Jargon.

Vote for her over a Republican in that same seat, yes. And that is harm reduction.

Vote for her in a primary over a better
option, no.

Just like the last election where I voted for Biden for the same reason instead of Trump. But in the primary I voted for Sanders.

There is a difference between voting the least bad option when no good options are available and ignoring a good option for a worse one.

[Breccia]

The House will (obviously) re-pass the amended version in a jiffy.

Thanks for keeping us posted. This is big news.

The vote was 50-49 as expected because an Alaskan R was missing.

Also:

“When we started negotiating it took longer than it should have. But we got it done, we got a better deal,” Manchin said on Saturday about the talks.

Manchin said that he wasn’t aware of the initial unemployment deal until 10:00 a.m.on Friday, around the same Democrats announced that they had a deal.

“‘I said wait a minute.’ Something I had never heard about,” Manchin added.

Um...wasn't every single word read aloud? How did Manchin miss that? Whuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh? (giant comical shrug)

[Theodarzna]

Vote for her over a Republican in that same seat, yes. And that is harm reduction.

You'll never walk away, you will thus never matter.

[Fugus]

You'll never walk away, you will thus never matter.

You really got to pull your head out your butt, then maybe you won't be wrong all the time.

The moment you walk away is the moment you never matter. So long as you are voting in the primaries against them or trying to lobby against them for the primaries, you are doing something that matters, just look at Georgia and and Stacy Abrams.

Voting for them in the general when they are the least bad option doesn't mean you aren't doing anything. At that point, you are effectively advocating killing both politicians because nothing less matters in your eyes.

[Shadowferal]

You'll never walk away, you will thus never matter.

Matter more than someone that never votes...but then considering how irrelevant you have always been before coming to this country I should wonder that this is your way of trying to feel right at home.

[YUPPIE]

has it been discussed yet of how Joe Biden let the Saudis off the hook for the murder of that journalist?

[Shadowferal]

has it been discussed yet of how Joe Biden let the Saudis off the hook for the murder of that journalist?

If you didn't bother about it when Trump was ignoring it...

[Kronik85]

Trump did executive orders and judges which is a 50 + 1 type of thing. Nothing that required congress and senate power

The fillibuster means that nothing meaningful will come out of the legislative as long as one party arent acting like partisan hacks (tje gop)

@Shadowferal, @Nedfunded

Ok thanks for the clarification. So if Biden believes in a min wage why doesn't he just EO it and then let unsympathetic judges strike it down at the state level? The optics would be a shit ton better than what's going on now where posters like Theo get to legitimately dunk on Dems because they don't understand what a three line whip is (which as a British poster means that individual MPs have to vote with the party or they get kicked from the party).

[JohnBrown1917]

@Shadowferal, @Nedfunded

Ok thanks for the clarification. So if Biden believes in a min wage why doesn't he just EO it and then let unsympathetic judges strike it down at the state level? The optics would be a shit ton better than what's going on now where posters like Theo get to legitimately dunk on Dems because they don't understand what a three line whip is (which as a British poster means that individual MPs have to vote with the party or they get kicked from the party).

Or the democrats could just get rid of the filibuster rule. They also only need 51 votes(including Harris) for that.

[Shadowferal]

Ok thanks for the clarification. So if Biden believes in a min wage why doesn't he just EO it and then let unsympathetic judges strike it down at the state level? .

Started that with federal contractors. Technically the first step. Biden executive order takes steps to require federal contractors pay $15 minimum wage
Private business is the next thing.

[Endus]

has it been discussed yet of how Joe Biden let the Saudis off the hook for the murder of that journalist?

If you didn't bother about it when Trump was ignoring it...

Beyond what Shadowferal said there, what's he [i]able[i] to do? His options are limited. Outright war isn't reasonable. Trade sanctions are meaningless unless you get the UN as a whole to sign off; there's too many other options and the USA is in no way situated to embargo Saudi Arabia. He could perhaps end some trade agreements or the like, but that hurts the USA as much as Saudi, and doesn't actually affect the murderous prince directly anyway.

About all he could do is be seen frowning and wagging a finger, and that's just going to create diplomatic backlash for no real gain.

This isn't Biden's decision to make, in the end. It's gotta go through Congress, if you want anything meaningful done.

[Ivanstone]

Beyond what Shadowferal said there, what's he [i]able[i] to do?

Ending any support for Saudi's Yemen adventures and being nicer to Iran. Which he already did.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

You really got to pull your head out your butt, then maybe you won't be wrong all the time.

The moment you walk away is the moment you never matter. So long as you are voting in the primaries against them or trying to lobby against them for the primaries, you are doing something that matters, just look at Georgia and and Stacy Abrams.

Voting for them in the general when they are the least bad option doesn't mean you aren't doing anything. At that point, you are effectively advocating killing both politicians because nothing less matters in your eyes.

Wait, you mean creating transparent personas on a gaming forum and spewing stupid, violent rhetoric isn't actually the height of activism?

[Felya]

Wait, you mean creating transparent personas on a gaming forum and spewing stupid, violent rhetoric isn't actually the height of activism?

The contrast between ‘don’t vote’ and a stolen election because too many people voted via mail... is... something...

[Cthulhu 2020]

So did anything happen, or did this thread just devolve for a few pages into Theo's deluded caricature vision of the direction of the Democratic party? I kind of felt like we'd made up, but it's kind of hard to avoid speaking out against it when it's just straight up fantasy.

And as Fugus said, I'm the kind of person who will vote Bernie in the primary, and Biden/Hillary in the general, because while I'd prefer far more progressive ideas, I'm not just going to entrust this country to the GOP. Just because I don't like SOME Democrat policy doesn't mean that leaving the country in the hands of Trump and his lackeys is going to accomplish anything. In fact it will do more harm overall.

[Kaleredar]

So did anything happen, or did this thread just devolve for a few pages into Theo's deluded caricature vision of the direction of the Democratic party? I kind of felt like we'd made up, but it's kind of hard to avoid speaking out against it when it's just straight up fantasy.

And as Fugus said, I'm the kind of person who will vote Bernie in the primary, and Biden/Hillary in the general, because while I'd prefer far more progressive ideas, I'm not just going to entrust this country to the GOP. Just because I don't like SOME Democrat policy doesn't mean that leaving the country in the hands of Trump and his lackeys is going to accomplish anything. In fact it will do more harm overall.

I think people, overall, are kind of missing the greater context here.

They bemoan that the democrats can't wrangle two capricious democratic senators into doing what they want... while actively ignoring the entire GOP senate base who is staunchly against everything they stand for and will ALWAYS be that way. They just kind of ignore that as some sort of given state of politics.

Contrary to popular belief the number one thing impeding "progress" in the United States is NOT "democrats who aren't progressive enough," it's the entire other half of the political scene, the GOP, who are not only not progressive but who are actively antagonistic towards and who will intentionally repeal progressive legislation.

These progressive ideals and directions will always face their most major stopping block from the GOP until such a time that they are rendered politically irrelevant. Even if Bernie had won the primary and then the presidency, he'd still be facing these exact same GOP senators saying no to everything he tried. The democrat's primary, long term goal should BE in making the GOP politically irrelevant. The arc of history is already trending towards it as the GOP loses badly in every single growing demographic of minority and young people and maintains a large chunk of their power via gerrymandering and voter suppression. The democrats just need to help it along.

In essence, you need to get the shit-flinging gibon out of your kitchen before you can have a salient discussion with the other chefs about what meal to prepare.

[Benggaul]

They bemoan that the democrats can't wrangle two capricious democratic senators into doing what they want... while actively ignoring the entire GOP senate base who is staunchly against everything they stand for and will ALWAYS be that way. They just kind of ignore that as some sort of given state of politics.

This in particular is why I haven't been paying much attention to this thread.

I've seen too many "GRR STUPID DEMS!" arguments that are completely ignoring that it's a handful of Democrats being obstinate versus the ENTIRETY of the GOP and while they can rant and rave all they want that the Democrats aren't trying to push through more progressive policy they're ignoring that, while Manchin and Sinema are responsible for much of the bargaining and concessions made, they're not completely blocking legislation the way the GOP continue to.

As others have pointed out, several Dem Senators are not the choices they would make if given the opportunity to Primary them. That said, they're the Dems that are in those seats and they are still heaps better than the GOP. I will once again make my case that the GOP needs to be completely eradicated from politics and then the Dems can split into Moderates and Progressives instead of trying to force them to kiss and make up in a single party.

[Kaleredar]

This in particular is why I haven't been paying much attention to this thread.

I've seen too many "GRR STUPID DEMS!" arguments that are completely ignoring that it's a handful of Democrats being obstinate versus the ENTIRETY of the GOP and while they can rant and rave all they want that the Democrats aren't trying to push through more progressive policy they're ignoring that, while Manchin and Sinema are responsible for much of the bargaining and concessions made, they're not completely blocking legislation the way the GOP continue to.

As others have pointed out, several Dem Senators are not the choices they would make if given the opportunity to Primary them. That said, they're the Dems that are in those seats and they are still heaps better than the GOP. I will once again make my case that the GOP needs to be completely eradicated from politics and then the Dems can split into Moderates and Progressives instead of trying to force them to kiss and make up in a single party.

I think people need to look beyond their immediate pet political issues they have and weigh that against the long-term political landscape. They need to ask themselves if those pet issues have any hope of being realized if the GOP continues to remain in power, and take a long-stock look at what's necessary to remove them from power. It's in opposing them at every turn, in every possible way you can. The primary way of doing that is for voting for the people who aren't them, because the GOP otherwise thrives off of apathy and people refusing to vote.

[Fugus]

I think people, overall, are kind of missing the greater context here.

They bemoan that the democrats can't wrangle two capricious democratic senators into doing what they want... while actively ignoring the entire GOP senate base who is staunchly against everything they stand for and will ALWAYS be that way. They just kind of ignore that as some sort of given state of politics.

Contrary to popular belief the number one thing impeding "progress" in the United States is NOT "democrats who aren't progressive enough," it's the entire other half of the political scene, the GOP, who are not only not progressive but who are actively antagonistic towards and who will intentionally repeal progressive legislation.

These progressive ideals and directions will always face their most major stopping block from the GOP until such a time that they are rendered politically irrelevant. Even if Bernie had won the primary and then the presidency, he'd still be facing these exact same GOP senators saying no to everything he tried. The democrat's primary, long term goal should BE in making the GOP politically irrelevant. The arc of history is already trending towards it as the GOP loses badly in every single growing demographic of minority and young people and maintains a large chunk of their power via gerrymandering and voter suppression. The democrats just need to help it along.

In essence, you need to get the shit-flinging gibon out of your kitchen before you can have a salient discussion with the other chefs about what meal to prepare.

And this is why we need them to make SURE that HR1 passes, then after the districts are redrawn and they can't screw over the voters near as much, after the next election, the political landscape vastly changes.

That is also assuming Machin actually does his duty correctly. And then we get to watch the Supreme Court take up the case because we KNOW the GOP will sue and watch how many of them turn their back in the constitution because it costs the GOP power the voters already decided they should have never had long ago.