1. #5021
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The label is inaccurate because...they're not actually Democrats because they don't believe the same things Democrats believe.



    Actually, no! They're "AINA", antifa in name only. Which is an accurate term, because they don't believe the same shit antifa folks believe.
    So you're agreeing with me now? Yes, calling someone a DINO or RINO, means they don't believe the same things the party they chose believes. That's it. That is all it means and all I said it means. You're the one pretending it means more than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Which is why I'm saying to look to GA, now copy them. Why I said that national politics don't play out on the local level.

    Also, I'll point out, amusingly, that Biden is the second Democratic president to come into office during an economic crisis where federal aide is desperately needed. It happened back in 2009 after the Great Recession and he pushed for the American Recovvery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

    It was similarly majority popular in polling - https://news.gallup.com/poll/114202/...lus-fight.aspx

    And when you look at the votes -

    https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll046.xml

    Party line in the House, all 177 Republicans and 11 of the 255 Democrats voted against it. Passed purely off the Democratic vote of 244 in favor.

    https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...00061#position

    Senate vote was 61:37, with all but three Republicans (Collins, Snowe, Specter) voting against it.

    Republicans sure seem to really hate helping people out during economic crisis, and Democrats have a tougher time of it with a thinner majority than previously.

    Thankfully this time Democrats didn't bother with as much effort for bipartisanship, knowing they would see none in return, and so we have a better stimulus bill compared to the 09 one.
    Sure copy them, I didn't argue against that. I take exception to the notion that Manchin is the best Dems can get in WV, or that some states won't ever flip. That's all i was saying. I think much of Dems defeats come at the hands of the incorrect notion they cannot go more liberal in a given state, election, etc.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  2. #5022
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Because the alternative would be that the last stimulus was the final stimulus. And that Democrats are getting a pretty big "win" right outta the gates that gives them some momentum to build on.
    If you would have told me a year ago that the dems would manage to pass something like this inside 50 days of being elected I would have laughed. Is it 100% what I wanted no but most of the changes were very much nibbling around the edges and the change to the 10500 exemption for money made via unemployment is going to help a LOT of people probably in a more impactful way than the 100 extra a month. A lot of people are going to be meeting some very surprise bills from taxes that this should help alleviate.

  3. #5023
    Very disappointing if no 15$ minimum wage. More of the same old really. People are just going to get left behind.

  4. #5024
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Very disappointing if no 15$ minimum wage. More of the same old really. People are just going to get left behind.
    Yeah, left behind with...

    Stimulus checks
    No tax bill for unemployment, and potentially student loan forgiveness if that happens
    Expanded unemployment benefits for longer
    State/local funding to help prop up locals that are hurting and need money to provide services including vaccine rollout programs
    PPP loans for more small businesses so they can get through this and keep paying employees so there's less of a crush on the unemployment system

    It wasn't just the $15/h wage, and while we can all lament that it won't make it in this bill we can work to pressure our Reps/Senators to bring it back up separately and push for a vote.

    It's weird the way these big, expansive bills are often whittled down to a single issue ($2K stim checks or $15/h minimum wage).

  5. #5025
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Very disappointing if no 15$ minimum wage. More of the same old really. People are just going to get left behind.
    The big push is HR1, they pass that and the rest becomes easier and more representative of the people.

    HR1 is the single most important and impactful legislation I have seen in our lifetimes.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  6. #5026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Very disappointing if no 15$ minimum wage. More of the same old really. People are just going to get left behind.
    Dems tried for it all. Had to compromise. $1.9T aid package, including the largest stimulus checks to date.

    Please try and pay attention to what's going on around you before commenting.

  7. #5027
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yeah, left behind with...

    Stimulus checks
    No tax bill for unemployment, and potentially student loan forgiveness if that happens
    Expanded unemployment benefits for longer
    State/local funding to help prop up locals that are hurting and need money to provide services including vaccine rollout programs
    PPP loans for more small businesses so they can get through this and keep paying employees so there's less of a crush on the unemployment system

    It wasn't just the $15/h wage, and while we can all lament that it won't make it in this bill we can work to pressure our Reps/Senators to bring it back up separately and push for a vote.

    It's weird the way these big, expansive bills are often whittled down to a single issue ($2K stim checks or $15/h minimum wage).
    Is this pandemic forever? what happens when people go back to work?

    No tax bill for unemployment? are you sure about that? There is a waiver up to $10,200 last I saw (4 hours ago) has this been updated now to entirely tax free?which it should be as the insurance is tax money

    PPP loans yay... did we implement proper oversight this time?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Dems tried for it all. Had to compromise. $1.9T aid package, including the largest stimulus checks to date.

    Please try and pay attention to what's going on around you before commenting.
    Some places have been paying 1k-2k per month since about last summer...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    The big push is HR1, they pass that and the rest becomes easier and more representative of the people.

    HR1 is the single most important and impactful legislation I have seen in our lifetimes.
    and when it comes up to debate.. let's just hope it doesn't get slashed down to being worth much less than it was.

  8. #5028
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Average worthper Senator. Overall there's I think about 2 billion?.
    The richest senator is worth about 90 million second next is 70 million so not quite, you have to remember that some senators are not millionaires. Also progressive senators tend not to be on the higher end of the spectrum.

  9. #5029
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yeah, left behind with...

    Stimulus checks
    No tax bill for unemployment, and potentially student loan forgiveness if that happens
    Expanded unemployment benefits for longer
    State/local funding to help prop up locals that are hurting and need money to provide services including vaccine rollout programs
    PPP loans for more small businesses so they can get through this and keep paying employees so there's less of a crush on the unemployment system

    It wasn't just the $15/h wage, and while we can all lament that it won't make it in this bill we can work to pressure our Reps/Senators to bring it back up separately and push for a vote.

    It's weird the way these big, expansive bills are often whittled down to a single issue ($2K stim checks or $15/h minimum wage).
    I am kinda surprised people just handwave cutting childhood poverty in half as oh well anybody would do that. No they would not not a single GOP member voted for it. Manchin love him or hate him could be convinced to vote for it which makes him 100% better than any of the current GOP. He also seems to be warming up to if not axing the fiilbuster at least change it in ways that make it harder and more painful for the minority to wield. That is a pretty huge change from where he was a couple years ago.

  10. #5030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Some places have been paying 1k-2k per month since about last summer...
    I'm just grading the package on U.S. standards. I will be the first to admit we could have done so much more, and so much better, in almost every capacity. Just as a for instance - an economist calculated that the GOP Tax Break for the Rich would have funded $2k checks to every tax filer for 8 months.

    So, were kinda grading on a curve here....

  11. #5031
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    It costs 80 million to change one person's mind?
    I stated total for one race as a start because let's face it the party would need to set up the logistics needed to be competitive that's even before spending a penny into changing minds. It's also not a guarantee thing that you can change minds this is not magic you aren't going to turn a Trump state into liberal Vermont that easily. The trick is to find people that don't vote usually and getting around voter suppression laws in those states.

    It's really not as easy as having the will to do it.

  12. #5032
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Is this pandemic forever? what happens when people go back to work?
    I never said it was. I instead, specifically pointed out that we should all be harassing our Senators/Reps to push for $15/h separately, and if they're already on board still give them a ring. They need to hear from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    No tax bill for unemployment? are you sure about that? There is a waiver up to $10,200 last I saw (4 hours ago) has this been updated now to entirely tax free?which it should be as the insurance is tax money
    Functionally, yes. That $10,200 is untaxable so lowers their potential tax burden. If they were on unemployment last year and got $20K, $10K of that isn't taxed and they're only taxed on the remaining $10K...which if you take the standard deduction would mean the government either owes you money (if you took the 10%
    tax on your unemployment expecting this) or mean you still owe nothing.

    The only folks that aren't shielded from this are folks that made more than $150K, but if you made $100K and got more than $10K in unemployment, you'll owe a bit...but one could rightfully assume that with $90K in non-unemployment earnings you're probably not hurting too badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    PPP loans yay... did we implement proper oversight this time?
    I haven't seen too many specifics on this, I'll have to see if anything has been changed too much. But not having a literal Bond villain like Mnuchin in Treasury should sure help.

    And as much fraud and abuse happened with the previous PPP, it still did immense good. My company avoided any layoffs because of it, even though we lost some business (RIP event fees) due to the pandemic.

  13. #5033
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I'm just grading the package on U.S. standards. I will be the first to admit we could have done so much more, and so much better, in almost every capacity. Just as a for instance - an economist calculated that the GOP Tax Break for the Rich would have funded $2k checks to every tax filer for 8 months.

    So, were kinda grading on a curve here....
    History will grade on a curve, there's no reason to do it in a public forum. Its ok to talk about the issues that were missed or under dealt with, no matter how big the bill is.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  14. #5034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    History will grade on a curve, there's no reason to do it in a public forum. Its ok to talk about the issues that were missed or under dealt with, no matter how big the bill is.
    Sure. But the people calling the bill a failure, or "just more of the same", is complete bullshit. The bill does an enormous amount of good, objectively. Talking about what could have been included is entirely valid, along with comparing U.S. financial responses to other countries.

  15. #5035
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I stated total for one race as a start because let's face it the party would need to set up the logistics needed to be competitive that's even before spending a penny into changing minds. It's also not a guarantee thing that you can change minds this is not magic you aren't going to turn a Trump state into liberal Vermont that easily. The trick is to find people that don't vote usually and getting around voter suppression laws in those states.

    It's really not as easy as having the will to do it.
    I'm begging you to hear what i'm saying because you keep making this circular.....

    I think the Dems are wrong about their single approach and defeated attitude towards change in certain states/areas. So you, telling me their defeated attitude is right because their single approach won't work....is not an argument against what I'm saying.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  16. #5036
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    and when it comes up to debate.. let's just hope it doesn't get slashed down to being worth much less than it was.
    And if they do that, that shows they are truly worthless as a party.

    It is the single biggest positive change they could hope for which would also happen massively help them to in a positive way.

    This is one where defending it is easy based on the merits and on the facts that are so easy to explain that they would have to TRY to mess it up.

    Getting all of them on board for this should be a no brainer to this unless they are truly fake and an illusion of a choice.

    THIS is the legislation they need to pull out all the stops for and one that will help them in both public image and their voters influence as a whole.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  17. #5037
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I'm begging you to hear what i'm saying because you keep making this circular.....

    I think the Dems are wrong about their single approach and defeated attitude towards change in certain states/areas. So you, telling me their defeated attitude is right because their single approach won't work....is not an argument against what I'm saying.
    You are right but I think this is more of an economics and logistical question rather than "attitude". The states that have turned blue or turning blue have shown demographic changes that tilted them there. That's not mentioning you get more bang for your buck by securing local elections than going for a senator republicans got that a long time before democrats did.

  18. #5038
    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/mode...jor-individual

    I'm not a tax guy but...is my read of this showing that the biggest benefits are going towards the bottom quintiles (specifically the lowest quintile) in this analysis of the Senate passed bill?

    It seems like it, but again, I'm no tax guy so I'm trying to make sense of it. If so, this is good shit and like, how recovery bills should be done.

  19. #5039
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Dems tried for it all. Had to compromise. $1.9T aid package, including the largest stimulus checks to date.

    Please try and pay attention to what's going on around you before commenting.
    So you're happy with a stimulus check over the long term improvements that $15 min wage would bring? We need to stop aiming so low. Wait it out and play hardball. The Dems have control of both houses of congress. What do you think is going to happen in 2022 when the Republicans get control of one or both?

  20. #5040
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The richest senator is worth about 90 million second next is 70 million so not quite, you have to remember that some senators are not millionaires. Also progressive senators tend not to be on the higher end of the spectrum.
    What? The wealthiest senator is Rick Scott-255mn or Mark Warner- ~257mn

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