1. #5041
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Sure. But the people calling the bill a failure, or "just more of the same", is complete bullshit. The bill does an enormous amount of good, objectively. Talking about what could have been included is entirely valid, along with comparing U.S. financial responses to other countries.
    I think people are rightfully upset that after 4 years of rampant steamrolling, with absolutely zero consequences for the Repubs, that Dems can't even pass the bill the majority of the country wants and needs, without real cuts being made to it for no other reason than more conservative (and Manchin brand of fake Democrat that apparently I'm not allowed to call DINO for some reason) bullshit.

    We are allowed to be frustrated about that and voice it. Especially when you consider the major part of this bill is just really an expensive band aid for a wound inflicted by the people not facing any consequences but are still causing this bill to be cut down. Its fair to consider if the roles were reversed that Repubs would;dn;t hesitate to push through everything they want, how they want and in anyway they can no matter how many people it hurts, while we have to make concessions while trying to help people.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  2. #5042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    With Roy Blunt retiring we’re up to 5 GOP Senators who won’t seek re-election in 2022. Should be interesting.
    We talked about this a lot through 2020. And then, the GOP lost the Senate. Those two might be related, or it could be a coincidence.

    (sarcasm)

    The Senate 2022 race is going to be fucking brutal. It looks about 50/50 total and by vulnerable seats, at least at first glance. Every incumbent who flees makes it even more brutal.

  3. #5043
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Seems like a lot of folks on the left would enjoy it if Democrats became Republicans while they have the power to get things passed.

    I.e. ignoring any sorts of rules to behave the exact same shitty way that they've lambasted Republicans for for the past 4 years just to get their pet issue closer to being solved (ignoring those that will never be happy even if a straight up utopia was created).
    Well that's a crock of bullshit.

    Republicans blocked judges, and then filled them, and Democrats aren't going to correct that issue and you think trying to do such a thing is bad.

    Bothsideism is fucking bullshit.

    "to get their pet issues"

    pet fucking issues like healthcare and higher wages on one side versus lower taxes for the wealthy and cut backs in spending? The fuck is with you people?

  4. #5044
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Seems like a lot of folks on the left would enjoy it if Democrats became Republicans while they have the power to get things passed.

    I.e. ignoring any sorts of rules to behave the exact same shitty way that they've lambasted Republicans for for the past 4 years just to get their pet issue closer to being solved (ignoring those that will never be happy even if a straight up utopia was created).
    Oh fucking stop it.

    If one team cheats all the time, and the refs refuse to stop them, extreme actions need to be taken.

    This ridiculous notion that we follow the rules they break will give us a better world, while they become more evil and powerful is exactly how the Dems let the Repubs turn into Trump cultists in the first place.

    You know what is acting like a Republican? Pretending everything your team's elected officials do is solid gold.
    Last edited by Bodakane; 2021-03-08 at 11:34 PM.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  5. #5045
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    So you're happy with a stimulus check over the long term improvements that $15 min wage would bring? We need to stop aiming so low. Wait it out and play hardball. The Dems have control of both houses of congress. What do you think is going to happen in 2022 when the Republicans get control of one or both?
    HR1 >>>>>>>>>> $15 / hour

    THAT is the best long term outlook for both the party and the nation and the one they need to push come hell or high water to pass
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  6. #5046
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    We need to stop aiming so low. Wait it out and play hardball. The Dems have control of both houses of congress.
    The stimulus wasn't as big as many hoped, but it was hardly "aiming low"

    And as a reminder, they barely control both houses of Congress. They have barely 10 votes in the House and they have 0 leeway in the Senate, a single departure could sink any bill they want to get through (yes, I'm counting King/Sanders as they caucus with Democrats). That's far less than Republicans had and remember, they couldn't even deliver on their decade-long promise to "repeal and replace" the ACA, thank goodness.

    But I just cringe every time I read/hear people talking about the Democrats "using their majority control" because it grossly misrepresents just how much that control is, which is by the skin of their teeth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    What do you think is going to happen in 2022 when the Republicans get control of one or both?
    Hopefully that's not the case, but folks can see two years of nothing meaningful getting done (again) after the two years of total Republican control over Trump delivered...quite possibly the most unpopular tax cut in US history and the two years of split-control with a Republican in the WH delivered little meaningful legislation.

    Democrats need to campaign on what they'll have done, and this is a big first step. And if they don't pass minimum wage this term, which I fuckin hope they do, make it a campaign issue nationally. Force Republicans to run on the, "You're not worth $15/h" platform. And if it gets passed, force Republicans to run on the, "We're taking away your minimum wage" platform.

  7. #5047
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    What? The wealthiest senator is Rick Scott-255mn or Mark Warner- ~257mn
    I think I see what is happening here different sites have different numbers for US senators as a lot of it is estimates. Some base it on family fortune others on individual wealth but it is kind of moot though since it's not as simple as spending your own money.

  8. #5048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    So you're happy with a stimulus check over the long term improvements that $15 min wage would bring? We need to stop aiming so low. Wait it out and play hardball. The Dems have control of both houses of congress. What do you think is going to happen in 2022 when the Republicans get control of one or both?
    Hey, what’s playing hard ball? Like... how?

    If people who support the minimum wage increase, vote GOP or don’t vote at all... what incentive do republicans have, in ever voting with democrats?
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-03-08 at 11:51 PM.
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  9. #5049
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    So you're happy with a stimulus check over the long term improvements that $15 min wage would bring? We need to stop aiming so low. Wait it out and play hardball. The Dems have control of both houses of congress. What do you think is going to happen in 2022 when the Republicans get control of one or both?
    Yeah, play hardball while millions desperately need aid.

    Or, like, pass the relief bill and tackle minimum wage afterwards when people aren't being evicted or starving to death.

  10. #5050
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I think people are rightfully upset that after 4 years of rampant steamrolling, with absolutely zero consequences for the Repubs
    Because it wasn't 4 years of that at all, and was hardly 2 years of that when they had total control. They steamrolled judicial nominees, not legislation. Legislation is an entirely separate beast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    that Dems can't even pass the bill the majority of the country wants and needs, without real cuts being made to it for no other reason than more conservative (and Manchin brand of fake Democrat that apparently I'm not allowed to call DINO for some reason) bullshit.
    And it's their fault that Republican Senators/House members voted against the bill...how? National popularity doesn't matter, if it's 99% popular in TX it doesn't mean a shit worth a fuck if Cruz/Cornyn decide to vote against it.

    The, "Democrats can hardly pass something that's got majority public support" argument is complete nonsense and has no actual bearing on reality when it's not a direct Democracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Especially when you consider the major part of this bill is just really an expensive band aid for a wound inflicted by the people not facing any consequences but are still causing this bill to be cut down.
    Republicans barely lost the Senate as Democrats flipped two red seats. That's a consequence. And all stimulus is an "expensive band aid", it's to address a present problem that's unique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Republicans blocked judges, and then filled them, and Democrats aren't going to correct that issue and you think trying to do such a thing is bad.
    https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden...0dd45b022a94d8

    Apparently they will, we'll just have to see when Biden/Schumer start. There are some more pressing matters they're focusing on first though, like the stimulus bill. Only so much do do when there are a million priorities and limited time.

  11. #5051
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    So you're happy with a stimulus check over the long term improvements that $15 min wage would bring? We need to stop aiming so low. Wait it out and play hardball. The Dems have control of both houses of congress. What do you think is going to happen in 2022 when the Republicans get control of one or both?
    Why do you assume the issue is binary? We tried for the $15 min wage, didn't get it, got a whole bunch of other great stuff, which will dramatically improve people's lives NOW, and we STILL can go for the minimum wage.

    Only a Sith thinks legislation is binary.

  12. #5052
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Why do you assume the issue is binary? We tried for the $15 min wage, didn't get it, got a whole bunch of other great stuff, which will dramatically improve people's lives NOW, and we STILL can go for the minimum wage.

    Only a Sith thinks legislation is binary.
    It's weird, some people think that because it failed once it's dead forever.

    And I see similar arguments from the Jimmy Dore, "FORCE THE VOTE" crowd which makes me wonder...did they think by forcing a vote they'd kill M4A forever? >.>

  13. #5053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I think people are rightfully upset that after 4 years of rampant steamrolling, with absolutely zero consequences for the Repubs, that Dems can't even pass the bill the majority of the country wants and needs, without real cuts being made to it for no other reason than more conservative (and Manchin brand of fake Democrat that apparently I'm not allowed to call DINO for some reason) bullshit.
    The Democrats literally just passed the bill the majority of the country wants and needs. We didn't get the minimum wage, sure, but if you look at the details of the bill, the Democrats did a lot of good for the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    We are allowed to be frustrated about that and voice it. Especially when you consider the major part of this bill is just really an expensive band aid for a wound inflicted by the people not facing any consequences but are still causing this bill to be cut down. Its fair to consider if the roles were reversed that Repubs would;dn;t hesitate to push through everything they want, how they want and in anyway they can no matter how many people it hurts, while we have to make concessions while trying to help people.
    Definitely. And I agree with those frustrations. But to dismiss the bill as a failure is just willful ignorance, or propaganda.

    We need to CELEBRATE this bill, from on high, because it actually does help the country. Shitting all over it because everything we wanted wasn't in there just helps the GOP.

    Be frustrated. Be disheartened. Be disappointed. But do it intelligently.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's weird, some people think that because it failed once it's dead forever.

    And I see similar arguments from the Jimmy Dore, "FORCE THE VOTE" crowd which makes me wonder...did they think by forcing a vote they'd kill M4A forever? >.>
    Exactly. And we may not get it through this session. A 50-50 split in the Senate is enormously difficult to work with - even the GOP has outliers when they passed their legislation, shitty as it was for everyone that isn't a millionaire.

    We need a couple of big victories, and we need to market the fucking shit out of them, and maybe score one or two small ones - and maybe add a state or two. Then take 2-5 seats in 2022, and THEN start passing some serious legislation.

  14. #5054
    Could someone clarify something about this latest unemployment extension? My google-fu is failing me.

    It's saying that the +$300 federal benefit is being extended through September, but I only have 1 week left of unemployment benefits currently.

    Is the bill extending my possible weeks on unemployment? Or just the +$300 benefit, or both?

    My confusion lies in the fact that unemployment is a state by state thing, isn't it? Is this bill forcing states to extend benefits, and then adding the bonus? The whole thing is kinda confusing.

  15. #5055
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I think I see what is happening here different sites have different numbers for US senators as a lot of it is estimates. Some base it on family fortune others on individual wealth but it is kind of moot though since it's not as simple as spending your own money.
    Course not, you just take it from your donors instead lol.

  16. #5056
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Could someone clarify something about this latest unemployment extension? My google-fu is failing me.

    It's saying that the +$300 federal benefit is being extended through September, but I only have 1 week left of unemployment benefits currently.

    Is the bill extending my possible weeks on unemployment? Or just the +$300 benefit, or both?

    My confusion lies in the fact that unemployment is a state by state thing, isn't it? Is this bill forcing states to extend benefits, and then adding the bonus? The whole thing is kinda confusing.
    My understanding is that is that it's extending the benefits through August, and giving the additional $300/week. This is federal unemployment benefits, separate from anything you're getting from the state from what I know.

  17. #5057
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    My understanding is that is that it's extending the benefits through August, and giving the additional $300/week. This is federal unemployment benefits, separate from anything you're getting from the state from what I know.
    I wonder if I can receive the federal benefit while being out of weeks on the state benefit.

  18. #5058
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    My understanding is that is that it's extending the benefits through August, and giving the additional $300/week. This is federal unemployment benefits, separate from anything you're getting from the state from what I know.
    I thought it was to September

  19. #5059
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    I wonder if I can receive the federal benefit while being out of weeks on the state benefit.
    My understanding is that you can, this is a separate program on top of state programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I thought it was to September
    Ah, for some reason I thought they ended at the end of August but apparently this runs through Sept. 6

  20. #5060
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    It's saying that the +$300 federal benefit is being extended through September, but I only have 1 week left of unemployment benefits currently.
    Is the bill extending my possible weeks on unemployment? Or just the +$300 benefit, or both?
    My confusion lies in the fact that unemployment is a state by state thing, isn't it? Is this bill forcing states to extend benefits, and then adding the bonus? The whole thing is kinda confusing.
    For regular unenjoyment, you should call the state. The 300 will add to it. (You might have to reopen your claim after exhausting your regular benefit)

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