Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Themius]

The Vox article doesn't state if they're being kept after the family members have been verified or if they're kept while the government is verifying the family. I'd hope the government would take the time to make sure they're sending the kids to actual family members and not just anyone who wants to claim them.

I'm trying to track down the study now, but if you've got a link that'd be great.



Because they show up unaccompanied, that's not to say they don't have family here, just that they show up without family and the government has to track down/verify family.



Because the children have to be placed with someone who has legal authority over them. Minors/cousins/siblings may not have that authority.



Again, you still haven't answered what the government is supposed to do with the children while it verifies their family and places the children with them.

Are they supposed to leave them out on the streets?

Edit: That report in the Vox article is from 2014, so I wonder how applicable it is today - https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/581340...mmigrants-daca

Yes it's a 2014 survey so I wonder the same, but I don't think there is any reason why it should be extremely different today.

this is interesting:
https://immigrantjustice.org/sites/i..._June_2014.pdf

In various meetings, officials from both USBP and OFO reported to UNHCR that separating
UAC from any relative other than a parent or legal guardian is too restrictive in the face of
the situation as it exists at the U.S.-Mexico border. They reported that it is very common for
Mexican UAC to be traveling with aunts, uncles, grandparents, or adult siblings, often
because, according to CBP, children have a parent already living in the U.S. whom they wish
to join.20 In many of these situations, the child had been raised by an extended family
member who had assisted in bringing the child to the U.S. border. Likewise, UNHCR was
told that married UAC present a challenge when CBP is required to separate a married UAC
from his or her adult spouse. In such a situation, the couple is generally handled as two
separate individuals and as a result, placement in the U.S. or repatriation is generally not
coordinated.2

I'm not finding the original report though.. this one only notes Mexican children specifically when speaking about one parent already in the USA, and for them, it is 19%.

[Felya]

They don't know who the kids parents are yes... but many of the immigrants coming here already have family here. By the way in case you're not entirely aware... we already do sometimes release or reunite children with their extended family in America.

These are unaccompanied children... I don’t understand how you would assume they could identify their relatives in US, even if you have statistics saying that they do have relatives in US. Do you think they have their social security number or home address?

What I am saying is that we should do that more and on top of that not go after their family who may be here illegally and therefore scared to come forward.

If their family is here illegally, how are they to find them?

[PACOX]

My problem is that instead of saying "let's give Biden time to get the kids out of cages" it slowly becomes "well the cages are now fine because Biden has different intentions".

Its easy to chastise deplorable people for being deplorable, it's as simple as just pointing out their nature. It's harder to hold those closer to you accountable when they are fucking up. Its not east or comfortable. At tunes its owed and appreciated. Biden could be doing a lot better at the border.

[Felya]

My problem is that instead of saying "let's give Biden time to get the kids out of cages" it slowly becomes "well the cages are now fine because Biden has different intentions".

Its easy to chastise deplorable people for being deplorable, it's as simple as just pointing out their nature. It's harder to hold those closer to you accountable when they are fucking up. Its not east or comfortable. At tunes its owed and appreciated. Biden could be doing a lot better at the border.

Are you suggesting they should just release the children... where? This isn’t about different intent... they are not held due to punishment... it’s why the numbers of immigrants at the border is increasing...

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Oh and more good news:

Biden administration will not defend Trump’s ‘public charge’ rule
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ic-charge-rule

[Edge-]

My problem is that instead of saying "let's give Biden time to get the kids out of cages" it slowly becomes "well the cages are now fine because Biden has different intentions".

Its easy to chastise deplorable people for being deplorable, it's as simple as just pointing out their nature. It's harder to hold those closer to you accountable when they are fucking up. Its not east or comfortable. At tunes its owed and appreciated. Biden could be doing a lot better at the border.

I mean...pretty much everyone is saying just to give the new administration more time. They're facing a mountain of challenges and aren't even to the first 100 days yet, we're barely halfway done with that.

By the looks of things, it looks like they're making strides at improving the situation. It's not perfect, and they still need to use detention centers while processing this latest surge of unaccompanied minors, but we're already objectively seeing vast improvements compared to the past four years.

Nobody is defending the detention centers. We understand why they're being used, but I don't think you'll find anyone happy about it. Hopefully they can get the kids processed and moved in with family quickly and the US can work together with Central American countries to find a better way of handling the issue. That's not to say they shouldn't be allowed to come to the US, but if there was more process beyond, "Tons of kids just show up at border crossing" that would likely go a long way in eliminating the more objectionable parts of the process like the need to use temporary detention centers to house children.

[Felya]

Oh and just for perspective... Trump is blaming the surge at the border on Biden’s handling of the border:

Trump blasts Biden's handling of border crisis: 'Our country is being destroyed'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...igration-surge

Biden is now in the same scope as Obama... both going too far and not doing enough...

[beanman12345]

Are you suggesting they should just release the children... where? This isn’t about different intent... they are not held due to punishment... it’s why the numbers of immigrants at the border is increasing...

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Oh and more good news:

Biden administration will not defend Trump’s ‘public charge’ rule
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ic-charge-rule

I don't think people understand just how much it's increasing either. More people have showed up in the last month, then the entirety of 2020.

[cubby]

My problem is that instead of saying "let's give Biden time to get the kids out of cages" it slowly becomes "well the cages are now fine because Biden has different intentions".

Its easy to chastise deplorable people for being deplorable, it's as simple as just pointing out their nature. It's harder to hold those closer to you accountable when they are fucking up. Its not east or comfortable. At tunes its owed and appreciated. Biden could be doing a lot better at the border.

He was handed a horrible situation and is doing the best he can - especially considering how awful ICE agents apparently are.

What would you suggest, specifically, that he could be doing better? That he literally could do I mean, not just a wish list of impossibilities.

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I mean...pretty much everyone is saying just to give the new administration more time. They're facing a mountain of challenges and aren't even to the first 100 days yet, we're barely halfway done with that.

By the looks of things, it looks like they're making strides at improving the situation. It's not perfect, and they still need to use detention centers while processing this latest surge of unaccompanied minors, but we're already objectively seeing vast improvements compared to the past four years.

Nobody is defending the detention centers. We understand why they're being used, but I don't think you'll find anyone happy about it. Hopefully they can get the kids processed and moved in with family quickly and the US can work together with Central American countries to find a better way of handling the issue. That's not to say they shouldn't be allowed to come to the US, but if there was more process beyond, "Tons of kids just show up at border crossing" that would likely go a long way in eliminating the more objectionable parts of the process like the need to use temporary detention centers to house children.

I can't even believe how much he's done and it's not even 100 days yet. Usually by now we're just getting into some of the middle tier cabinet and deputy cabinet confirmations.

[Themius]

These are unaccompanied children... I don’t understand how you would assume they could identify their relatives in US, even if you have statistics saying that they do have relatives in US. Do you think they have their social security number or home address?



If their family is here illegally, how are they to find them?

did you just ignored the above post where I went into more detail about what I am on about??

And being here illegally doesn't mean you have no contact with your family...

[Felya]

I don't think people understand just how much it's increasing either. More people have showed up in the last month, then the entirety of 2020.

Trump was holding 666 kids... there were 7000 transferred last month alone... they can’t keep up and are trying to build new shelters, which is a problem when... well... covid and ice storm...

[Edge-]

did you just ignored the above post where I went into more detail about what I am on about??

They need to be placed with legal guardians, which may not be "their cousin" unless there's some paperwork or approval from the parents, wherever they may be. It's literally a legal issue, they need to make sure the person who is taking custody over the children has legal authority to act on their behalf since they'll be making decisions on behalf of the minor.

And being here illegally doesn't mean you have no contact with your family...

No, but knowing your family is here and maybe the city they live in only goes so far. The family needs to be identified, they need to verify they are the actual family, and then they can begin the process of moving the child into their care while the case is processed.

Still waiting for your alternative to house children while their families are being identified/verified. Is it kids on the streets or what, yo?

[Felya]

did you just ignored the above post where I went into more detail about what I am on about?

Ignore, did not see... I guess depends on your perspective... just link it...

And being here illegally doesn't mean you have no contact with your family...

Government... it doesn’t mean government has knowledge of your family...

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Still waiting for your alternative to house children while their families are being identified/verified. Is it kids on the streets or what, yo?

It’s the same think the administration is doing, but they simply cannot keep up with the influx, because there was a drastic change in the way they are treated. We can act like know it alls, all we want... but, the ridiculous numbers of kids coming through the last month, means the people who are suffering to make it here... did notice a difference...

[Themius]

They need to be placed with legal guardians, which may not be "their cousin" unless there's some paperwork or approval from the parents, wherever they may be. It's literally a legal issue, they need to make sure the person who is taking custody over the children has legal authority to act on their behalf since they'll be making decisions on behalf of the minor.



No, but knowing your family is here and maybe the city they live in only goes so far. The family needs to be identified, they need to verify they are the actual family, and then they can begin the process of moving the child into their care while the case is processed.

Still waiting for your alternative to house children while their families are being identified/verified. Is it kids on the streets or what, yo?

I assume you skipped over the post where I already answered this.


I also noted that yes it takes time, and also then said that even when the families are found and the parents confirm it can still take months after that.

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Ignore, did not see... I guess depends on your perspective... just link it...



Government... it doesn’t mean government has knowledge of your family...

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It’s the same think the administration is doing, but they simply cannot keep up with the influx, because there was a drastic change in the way they are treated. We can act like know it alls, all we want... but, the ridiculous numbers of kids coming through the last month, means the people who are suffering to make it here... did notice a difference...

Why am I linking something that was directly above the post you quoted?

And yes the government may not know which makes it hard... but you know what would make it easier, blanket amnesty to all people who immigrated illegally from Latin America.

[Edge-]

I also noted that yes it takes time, and also then said that even when the families are found and the parents confirm it can still take months after that.

Why does it take months after that?

[Themius]

Why does it take months after that?

Lots of back and forth, lawyers have complained about the process. No callbacks, dates made up but never relayed to parties.

Ultimately i'd just want to allow any person wanting to come from a distress LA country to just be allowed and fast-tracked for visas. That would go along way to solving the issue.

[Edge-]

Lots of back and forth, lawyers have complained about the process. No callbacks, dates made up but never relayed to parties.

Ultimately i'd just want to allow any person wanting to come from a distress LA country to just be allowed and fast-tracked for visas. That would go along way to solving the issue.

Got any links? Not that I don't believe you, I just wanna learn more on it.

[Themius]

Got any links? Not that I don't believe you, I just wanna learn more on it.

Not off the top of my head. There was a vice documentary following cases and a few news stories. It’s a pretty old problem though. While things were worse under trump it has always been a bit of an issue.

Me... being from a family of immigrants from the West Indies and Central America have seen this play out personally with extended family.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Next... on Oprah

"When did you realize it was a toxic situation"

"When the White House press corps said they want to fucking execute me"

[Zan15]

Incorrect, and thus showing you don't actually know WTF you are talking about.


https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/t...are-tax-credit

My god son, slow your roll its going to get embarrasing from here.


umm right in the first paragraph and second....and this is the standard non covid enhanced child credit for 2021 but its the same one being enhanced in the current 2021 covid relief bill. but hey lets go with it.



The Child Tax Credit is a refundable tax credit worth up to $2,000 per qualifying child and $500 per qualifying dependent.

This is a tax credit, which means it reduces your tax bill on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Up to $1,400 of the Child Tax Credit is refundable; that is, it can reduce your tax bill to zero and you might be able to get a refund on anything left over.


Now you are confusing that with the The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit on the page you linked.

The Child and Dependent Care Credit can get you 20% to 35% of up to $3,000 of child care and similar costs for a child under 13, an incapacitated spouse or parent, or another dependent so that you can work (and up to $6,000 of expenses for two or more dependents). This credit is not refundable (unlike the Child Tax Credit), which means it can reduce your tax bill to zero but you won't get a refund on anything left over from the credit.



So your little attempt only lead to confusion on your part. Two credits. Two programs. CTC and CDCC. One refundable One not. The one in the bill is the CTC (just like the last two bills) and its the one that IS REFUNDABLE.

this is nothing new the CTC has been around pre-covid.

The COVID relief bill increases the existing child tax credit, or CTC, to as much as $3,600 per child (more than double the $1,400 per dependent in the stimulus check) and would let families receive the funds "periodically" instead of just annually during tax season. The credit would also be fully refundable and there wouldn't be a $2,500 earnings floor.


Here's a much more detailed site for you that puts it in language you can understand since sending you to the IRS forms would prob blow your mind.

https://www.cnet.com/personal-financ...u-should-know/

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Incorrect, and thus showing you don't actually know WTF you are talking about.

i'll accept that apology gracefully and not bully you i promise....so i'll be waiting for it.

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Incorrect, and thus showing you don't actually know WTF you are talking about.

Oh btw feel free to read the bill
https://budget.house.gov/sites/democ...ll%20Final.pdf

Page 475

CHILD TAX CREDIT
11 SEC. 9611. CHILD TAX CREDIT IMPROVEMENTS FOR 2021.
12 (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 24 of the Internal Rev13 enue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the
14 following new subsection:
15 ‘‘(i) SPECIAL RULES FOR 2021.—In the case of any
16 taxable year beginning after December 31, 2020, and be17 fore January 1, 2022—
18 ‘‘(1) REFUNDABLE CREDIT.—If the taxpayer
19 (in the case of a joint return, either spouse) has a
20 principal place of abode in the United States (deter21 mined as provided in section 32) for more than one22 half of the taxable year or is a bona fide resident of
23 Puerto Rico (within the meaning of section 937(a))
24 for such taxable year—

.....

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Incorrect, and thus showing you don't actually know WTF you are talking about.

]

So any time you are ready to move on to the other "cracks" and people missing out gimee a holla, i'll be happy to educate you on the rules and changes. it gets confusing sometimes and i am here to help

[Themius]

Sometimes they even opt to quit instead of working with progressive allies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...er/ar-BB1epEOL

Isn't it amazing...

Moved money and paid themselves a severance for quitting lol.