Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Cthulhu 2020]

Getting a hand cut off is subjectively better then cutting off an arm. Doesn't mean I'd vote for either one. Obama and his policies lead to Trump. The continuation will only lead to Trump again or worse. Don't blame me for their failures. Give me a reason to vote for you, and not a reason to vote against someone else.

The funny part is, the rise of Trumpism is a reaction to the country moving father left. Very progressive policies like raising wages, strong relief bills, refined immigration policy, LGBTQ rights, etc. are all things that have happened or are happening. Trumpism is a response to the country shifting left. If there was a massive, rapid shift leftward, do you think Trumpers would just sit and say "Oh yeah, this is better than those Democrats huh?"

NO. They'd scream and cry about socialism and push harder than ever for even more Trumpism. People hate rapid change, and many people just hate change in general. Shove left hard enough and you'll give people whiplash then we'll have a true right wing revolution.

Trumpism isn't a response to DEMOCRATS. It's a repsonse to the left in general. Get off of it with your "DEMOCRATS CAUSE TRUMPISM" bullshit.

[Santti]

Trumpism isn't a response to DEMOCRATS. It's a repsonse to the left in general. Get off of it with your "DEMOCRATS CAUSE TRUMPISM" bullshit.

I'm not so sure if Trumpism was a response to anything in particular. Trump gave a face to the bubbling toxicity that the right side always had.

[ati87]

The funny part is, the rise of Trumpism is a reaction to the country moving father left. Very progressive policies like raising wages, strong relief bills, refined immigration policy, LGBTQ rights, etc. are all things that have happened or are happening. Trumpism is a response to the country shifting left. If there was a massive, rapid shift leftward, do you think Trumpers would just sit and say "Oh yeah, this is better than those Democrats huh?"

NO. They'd scream and cry about socialism and push harder than ever for even more Trumpism. People hate rapid change, and many people just hate change in general. Shove left hard enough and you'll give people whiplash then we'll have a true right wing revolution.

Trumpism isn't a response to DEMOCRATS. It's a repsonse to the left in general. Get off of it with your "DEMOCRATS CAUSE TRUMPISM" bullshit.

If you had a Bush Jr in power or a Reagen then things would have gone even further left, somebody that's puts competent people in places of power (because neither was competent).
Last time a Republican with some sort of intelligence came into power America elected a socialist Muslim anarchist black guy that wasn't even born in the US.

[Felya]

Trumpism isn't a response to DEMOCRATS. It's a repsonse to the left in general. Get off of it with your "DEMOCRATS CAUSE TRUMPISM" bullshit.

If Trump is a response to democrats, why are their issues entirely based on conspiracy theories?

How does one reconcile democrats being the cause of Trump, while also pushing the both sided, neoliberal, conservative democrats narrative?

How does one reconcile democrats winning all, but one popular vote, in the last 30 years?

Oh, I know how... They blame democrat for the wars, the patriot act and the concept of American exceptionalism. Because they pretend republicans simply don’t exist. You can’t blame GOP, neoCons or the conservatives shifting from policy, to culture wars... because they don’t exist. Despite there being only one popular vote won in 30 years, GOP has had a president for 14 of those years...

Let’s also not forget, after 8 years of Clinton, GOP were singing about a booming economy that needs to be taken in a new direction... and a new direction Bush took us in, indeed... we get Obama inheriting 2 wars and an economic collapse... he ends his term on an economic boom, with a basis for expanding healthcare universally. Trump takes over, rolls back healthcare, largest wealth shift from middle class to rich in history, leaves a peace treaty with Iran and bombs their government official without provocation.

No, American people keep making the right choice... we just get fucked by the antiestablishment morons, that have resulted in nearly half of the last 30 years been controlled by GOP establishment we didn’t vote for!

Edit: It wasn’t democrats who turned the inspiration for Gordon Gekko into a populist... wtf?

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If you had a Bush Jr in power or a Reagen then things would have gone even further left, somebody that's puts competent people in places of power (because neither was competent).
Last time a Republican with some sort of intelligence came into power America elected a socialist Muslim anarchist black guy that wasn't even born in the US.

I dispute your assertion of Bush jr having some sort of intelligence...

[Bodakane]

The funny part is, the rise of Trumpism is a reaction to the country moving father left. Very progressive policies like raising wages, strong relief bills, refined immigration policy, LGBTQ rights, etc. are all things that have happened or are happening. Trumpism is a response to the country shifting left. If there was a massive, rapid shift leftward, do you think Trumpers would just sit and say "Oh yeah, this is better than those Democrats huh?"

NO. They'd scream and cry about socialism and push harder than ever for even more Trumpism. People hate rapid change, and many people just hate change in general. Shove left hard enough and you'll give people whiplash then we'll have a true right wing revolution.

Trumpism isn't a response to DEMOCRATS. It's a repsonse to the left in general. Get off of it with your "DEMOCRATS CAUSE TRUMPISM" bullshit.

They are though.

The Dems want bipartisan government so bad, they keep thinking the Repubs will act in good faith and they never do anymore. They are trying to play for a tie, meanwhile the other side is cheating to win.

[Selvari7]

This bill isn't progress. Its good, but it won't even get us to pre covid.

We went backwards with Trump and the one thing in that original bill that could gain some ground was the $15 mw. Yes, we need the stimulus, but its a no brainer move, that again, helps point us back to March 2020, nothing more...not get there mind you, but point us in the direction. Again, that's not a bad thing, but this isn't some towering piece of legislation, regardless of the dollar amount. It is an attempt to make up some of the massive ground lost just in Covid, which again was a self inflected wound.

Its like Babysitter1 gave a toddler a loaded gun, then celebrating when Babysitter2, took away three of the bullets. I mean, yes its better, but its not celebratory better. Especially when you find out West Virgina stopped the new baby sitter from taking the gun away and the Repubs negotiated down to 3 bullets being taken instead of 5.

Its ok to be upset about that. Nor does it make me some terrible person who just wants to watch the world burn.

We need real progress. If the country was moved backwards by Trump and Covid and all Biden accomplishes is either a nudge forward or barely returning to the previous state. How much of an accomplishment is that.

The $15 increase has been needed for years. This isn't a situation to pat yourself on the back that you sent our some checks and got some other funding through. People keep getting put further and further behind. Acting as if this isn't a pressing matter and can be delayed really ignores the situation on the ground. People need to educate themselves.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/us/15...ess/index.html

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you forgot to add "so soon", no one doubted it would happen eventually, that's why people still put some effort into it compared to say, Texas.

difference is demographics

West Virginia over the last 30 years has barely changed. And I bet if you dig to see mobility into and out of the state, people arent going there to stay, grow old and die, they only stay there if they were born there, so there is nothing to cause a change of views

West Virginia Racial Breakdown of Population
Racial composition 1990[67] 2000[68] 2010[69] 2019[70]
White 96.2% 95.0% 93.9% 93.1%
Black 3.1% 3.2% 3.4% 3.7%
Asian 0.4% 0.5% 0.7% 0.8%
Native 0.1% 0.2% 0.2% 0.2%
Native Hawaiian and
other Pacific Islander – – – -
Other race 0.1% 0.2% 0.3% 0.4%
Two or more races – 0.9% 1.5% 1.8%


vs Georgia
has gotten even more diverse, and its been at a faster pace than the national average

Georgia's racial breakdown of population
Racial composition 1990[45] 2000[46] 2010[47]
White 71.0% 65.1% 59.7%
Black 27.0% 28.7% 30.5%
Asian 1.2% 2.1% 3.3%
Native 0.2% 0.3% 0.3%
Native Hawaiian and
other Pacific Islander — 0.1% 0.1%
Other race 0.6% 2.4% 4.0%
Two or more races — 1.4% 2.1%



its more WV wont change anytime in the next 20-30 years without something forcing that change, more political outreach wont change things there.

2010 data? Get something more recent than 11 year old data.

[AntiFascistVoter]

2010 data? Get something more recent than 11 year old data.

Slow down tough guy. The Census only happens every 10 years. And 2020 had problems.

[Bodakane]

2010 data? Get something more recent than 11 year old data.

The problem isn't the age of the data, its the notion that "political outreach" can only be the one thing that has been done the same way for a 100 years.

Like i was telling these people, marketing firms find ways to create demand all the time and it isn't always the same approach. However, when it comes to political marketing, the script hasn't changed in forever. And considering the sides are more entrenched than they have been in a very long time, now is the time to try new approaches.

[Omega10]

They are though.

The Dems want bipartisan government so bad, they keep thinking the Repubs will act in good faith and they never do anymore. They are trying to play for a tie, meanwhile the other side is cheating to win.

There will be bipartisanship when the republican party is defeated and the democratic party breaks up into the two new major parties - the Manchin wing and the Sanders wing. But first the republican party has to be completely defeated. They are just too toxic.

[Bodakane]

There will be bipartisanship when the republican party is defeated and the democratic party breaks up into the two new major parties - the Manchin wing and the Sanders wing. But first the republican party has to be completely defeated. They are just too toxic.

They won't be defeated until the Dems play dirty.

The repubs broke the seal on bad faith politics. The ONLY way to defeat them is to play by the same lack of rules they do.

[Edge-]

The Dems want bipartisan government so bad, they keep thinking the Repubs will act in good faith and they never do anymore.

I mean...outside of Manchin...not really? Did you literally just miss Democrats extending a hand, seeing it slapped away, and then ignoring Republicans to pass the stimulus? Only a few folks like Manchin seem to think bipartisanship is remotely reasonable, most of the Democrats seem pretty on board with the, "We tried, let's stop wasting time on it again, now." train.

[Bodakane]

I mean...outside of Manchin...not really? Did you literally just miss Democrats extending a hand, seeing it slapped away, and then ignoring Republicans to pass the stimulus? Only a few folks like Manchin seem to think bipartisanship is remotely reasonable, most of the Democrats seem pretty on board with the, "We tried, let's stop wasting time on it again, now." train.

I mean other concessions were made, besides dropping the minimum wage part.

[Edge-]

I mean other concessions were made, besides dropping the minimum wage part.

What does that have to do with bipartisanship? That was inside bargaining to get the moderate/conservative Democrats on board for a quicker passage.

[AntiFascistVoter]

For people paying attention to ICE and immigration issues.

Particularly given how much internal resistance there would likely be to the de-Nazification of immigration policy — both from ICE itself and from hack Trump judges — this is pretty striking:

President Biden’s orders to rein in U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement led to a sharp drop in arrests by the agency last month, even though a federal judge in Texas has blocked the new administration’s 100-day “pause” on deportations.

The number of immigrants taken into custody by ICE officers fell more than 60 percent in February compared with the last three months of the Trump administration, according to data reviewed by The Washington Post. Deportations fell by nearly the same amount, ICE statistics show.

The change indicates the extent to which the Biden administration has been able to move forward with its plans to reshape U.S. immigration enforcement despite a U.S. District Court preliminary injunction halting its deportation freeze.

The Biden administration has issued temporary guidelines to ICE officers narrowing their enforcement priorities to focus on national security threats, recent border-crossers and criminals with aggravated felony convictions who pose a threat to public safety. Officers must seek permission from senior supervisors in writing before attempting to arrest fugitives who do not fit those categories, a change that Biden officials say will make better use of the agency’s resources.

Im not the king o immigrants, but I did bring a citation

[Felya]

To add to the above drop of 60% in ICE custody... while the number of people at the border has grown by several folds... this is remarkable in two different ways... and should highlight the massive problem at the border, not being addresses by ICE... at all... they failed... go home... nothing for you here... go away...

[PhaelixWW]

Huzzah, the House confirms the Covid stimulus bill.

[Edge-]

Huzzah, the House confirms the Covid stimulus bill.

White House and Democrats really need to do a better job of selling what's actually in the bill to folks, because there's a ton of good shit and it's largely overshadowed by the "NO $15/H MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE!"

Seriously, the more I learn about what's in the bill, including from folks working to sell it like Sanders, the better it seems.

[Felya]

Huzzah, the House confirms the Covid stimulus bill.

Yep, if there was just one more GOP, it wouldn’t have happened. Clone Abrams and send her to all the states...

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-manchin...just-4-1573625

Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, a moderate Democrat, has used his crucial stimulus vote to push party leaders to decrease the $15 minimum wage hike and lower the income threshold for the $1,400 direct cash payments—the most popular measure in President Joe Biden's sprawling $1.9 trillion economic relief package. A poll on Manchin's popularity taken among Americans around the height of the checks debate shows his "very favorable" rating at just 4 percent.

In a recent Statista survey of 1,473 U.S. adults, taken between February 19 to 22, 12 percent of respondents said they had a "very" unfavorable opinion of Manchin, while just 4 percent viewed him "very" favorably. An additional 17 percent had a "somewhat" favorable opinion of the Democrat and 20 percent said they viewed him "somewhat" favorably.

Manchin's overall favorability rating sat at negative 11 percent, with a further 47 percent indicating they had no opinion of him.

Well it seems there's a popular Joe and an unpopular Joe. Joe Manchin is the unpopular Joe, though I'm not sure what his state approval numbers are looking like.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/329384/...joe-biden.aspx

Joe Biden, meanwhile, is at 56% approval in the latest polls, also known as "7% higher than Trump's highest approval rating of 49%"

I'm sure if I were a smarter man I'd figure out a way to make a "Joe Mama" work in this post, but alas I don't think I've ever been credibly accused of being a smart man.

[beanman12345]

White House and Democrats really need to do a better job of selling what's actually in the bill to folks, because there's a ton of good shit and it's largely overshadowed by the "NO $15/H MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE!"

Seriously, the more I learn about what's in the bill, including from folks working to sell it like Sanders, the better it seems.

Biden is addressing the nation tomorrow, so hopefully there.