1. #5821
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The idea that the Biden administration firing those who admitted to using pot was in any way ethically "wrong".

    I don't see that they had a choice. Not while marijuana is federally criminalized.
    They going to fire Kamala, then? Or this is just for the peons?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #5822
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    No I didn't. They were the poster's claims. I was trying to get you to understand your argument didn't address what they were saying.
    You stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    They kinda were though if you paid actual attention to the gripe being made.

    It was an open secret. Before Biden, it was purposely overlooked. Now, even with it being legal in many states, it is all of a sudden not overlooked. You can pretend social contracts like that aren't made, but they are. And even the post you referred to, they weren't outraged.
    "

    Those are your words, you chose to type them, all on your own. You chose to repeat misinformation, which was already debunked. Just as he got called out for it, so are you.

    He was addressed, refuted, and completely hammered down. But hey, at least you are now admitting those claims you chose to repeat are utter bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    They going to fire Kamala, then? Or this is just for the peons?
    That would depend entirely on when she did it, if she still does it, and if she's going to state she won't do it again.

    You know... because that's the part that people seem to keep ignoring.

  3. #5823
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I fundamentally disagree with what you're saying. Honesty was encouraged, but were they ever told there would be no consequences for confessing to criminal conduct?

    What's "wrong" here is that marijuana is federally criminalized. I won't support that. Firing these aides, though? I don't see any grounds for attacking that as any kind of moral or ethical wrong. It was practically a necessary step.
    I assume that what you are fundamentally disagreeing with is the "attacking" of the firing of aides as morally or ethically wrong. I'm doing neither of these things so.. cool? maybe if you said politically lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    were they ever told there would be no consequences for confessing to criminal conduct?
    Yes they were, hence the honesty and subsequent career collapses and blabbing to the media.

  4. #5824
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Congress just needs to decriminalize it and leave it up to the states to regulate.
    Actually, the Republican Party is for smaller government and fewer regulations. Why aren't they behind this?

    And also, how do you feel about leading questions, Scoobs?

  5. #5825
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    They going to fire Kamala, then? Or this is just for the peons?
    She is an elected official... she would have to be impeached...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  6. #5826
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I assume that what you are fundamentally disagreeing with is the "attacking" the firing of aides as morally or ethically wrong. I'm doing neither of these things so.. cool? maybe if you said politically lol.



    Yes they were, hence the honesty and subsequent career collapses and blabbing to the media.
    The White House already refuted that narrative.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    She is an elected official... she would have to be impeached...
    No, she can still be denied a security clearance.

  7. #5827
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Actually, the Republican Party is for smaller government and fewer regulations. Why aren't they behind this?

    And also, how do you feel about leading questions, Scoobs?
    Reefer madness...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No, she can still be denied a security clearance.
    That’s not fired...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  8. #5828
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Reefer madness...

    - - - Updated - - -



    That’s not fired...
    Absolutely, it wouldn't get someone fired. Now, in the case of government peons, if their job requires them to have a clearance, it may mean exactly that.

  9. #5829
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    They really weren't betrayed. Military recruiters push FAR MORE egregious narratives to get people to sign up.

    When was it an open secret? When was it overlooked? I'm going to want some fucking evidence on that.
    I would think making it public knowledge to the point that there are news stories about past marijuana use not disqualifying candidates a pretty "open secret." That being said, really doesn't look like it was the marijuana use that ended their work at the WH, regardless of its legality at the federal level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  10. #5830
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    I would think making it public knowledge to the point that there are news stories about past marijuana use not disqualifying candidates a pretty "open secret." That being said, really doesn't look like it was the marijuana use that ended their work at the WH, regardless of its legality at the federal level.
    Yeah, I don't know how so many people keep missing this bit. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not intentional but rather being lost in the flow of the argument, but still.

  11. #5831
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    I came here to say "thank you"

    We owe you a gigantic debt of gratitude, and we will for a long, long, long time
    -- Biden, to the CDC, while wearing a mask, wanna see the video?

  12. #5832
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    A few of the Democrats weren't on board with it.

    It's not that complicated.
    Play hardball. If they're democrats and they're not even on board with $15 then wait till they cave in. If you're soft then you're not going to see meaningful change.

  13. #5833
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Play hardball. If they're democrats and they're not even on board with $15 then wait till they cave in. If you're soft then you're not going to see meaningful change.
    If you play hard ball, without any leverage, the fact that you get destroyed by the result... would deny you all satisfaction... regardless of how hard or soft they were.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  14. #5834
    https://fortune.com/2021/03/18/stude...versity-loans/

    I feel like I missed this? I guess Biden's DoEd canceled student debt for 72K folks, roughly $1B. This isn't his EO or anything, hopefully that's still coming, this is just them once again beginning to forgive loans for students who went to fake universities like Trump University. Because under DeVos the program was functionally dead.

  15. #5835
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Play hardball. If they're democrats and they're not even on board with $15 then wait till they cave in. If you're soft then you're not going to see meaningful change.
    What incentive do they have to cave? They live in red states in districts that would easily go to a Republican if the Democratic party pushed too hard against them.

    A $15 minimum wage in West Virginia would be a crushing blow to many small towns, because prices would go up, and businesses would close. West Virginia is dead fucking last in the United States in median income, so they would see the biggest negative impact to this.

  16. #5836
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    What incentive do they have to cave? They live in red states in districts that would easily go to a Republican if the Democratic party pushed too hard against them.

    A $15 minimum wage in West Virginia would be a crushing blow to many small towns, because prices would go up, and businesses would close. West Virginia is dead fucking last in the United States in median income, so they would see the biggest negative impact to this.
    Minimum wage isn’t and instant 100% go across the board as has been pointed out repeatedly. It is phased in with typically the smaller places not having to pay the increase till after the bigger boys do and the increase in consumer demand offsets it.

    A living wage is beneficial to the smaller companies while the subsistence wage is beneficial to the big boys as they can charge cheaper prices due to economies of scale which forced more people to them as they can’t afford the smaller places as much.


    Saying that the wage would crush them would be you lying and ignoring the facts.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  17. #5837
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://fortune.com/2021/03/18/stude...versity-loans/

    I feel like I missed this? I guess Biden's DoEd canceled student debt for 72K folks, roughly $1B. This isn't his EO or anything, hopefully that's still coming, this is just them once again beginning to forgive loans for students who went to fake universities like Trump University. Because under DeVos the program was functionally dead.
    Yeah, someone posted this before, but no one complained about it... so... it faded away...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  18. #5838
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Minimum wage isn’t and instant 100% go across the board as has been pointed out repeatedly. It is phased in with typically the smaller places not having to pay the increase till after the bigger boys do and the increase in consumer demand offsets it.

    A living wage is beneficial to the smaller companies while the subsistence wage is beneficial to the big boys as they can charge cheaper prices due to economies of scale which forced more people to them as they can’t afford the smaller places as much.


    Saying that the wage would crush them would be you lying and ignoring the facts.
    Its a sime fact that West Virginia is dead last in median income. It's also a fact that it isn't nearly as popular in conservative states as liberal ones. Manchin cares more about being re-elected, than whether the Democratic leadership are upset with him... much less progressives who already hate him.

  19. #5839
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Its a sime fact that West Virginia is dead last in median income. It's also a fact that it isn't nearly as popular in conservative states as liberal ones. Manchin cares more about being re-elected, than whether the Democratic leadership are upset with him... much less progressives who already hate him.
    Dead last in median income, if they have low unions or worker protection laws, that would explain it. And that low median income also drags the entire place down economically leaving them with less consumer spending and less of a reason for locals or otherwise to open shop there.

    It being popular isn’t what I was talking about, people cut their nose off to spite their face and throw their children under the bus to protect their feelings all the time. Doesn’t change the facts just because their feelings get in a bunch over it.

    And I understand that Manchin cares more about getting re-elected than the party, he cares more about getting re-elected than he does about the well-being of the people he represents as is proven.

    And I don’t blame manchin for that. He wasn’t elected to clean up their messes and protect them from themselves, he was elected to follow their will, even if that will has them putting a bullet in their local area and the nation as a whole.

    None of that changes the point that what you said was factually wrong before.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  20. #5840
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Dead last in median income, if they have low unions or worker protection laws, that would explain it. And that low median income also drags the entire place down economically leaving them with less consumer spending and less of a reason for locals or otherwise to open shop there.

    It being popular isn’t what I was talking about, people cut their nose off to spite their face and throw their children under the bus to protect their feelings all the time. Doesn’t change the facts just because their feelings get in a bunch over it.

    And I understand that Manchin cares more about getting re-elected than the party, he cares more about getting re-elected than he does about the well-being of the people he represents as is proven.

    And I don’t blame manchin for that. He wasn’t elected to clean up their messes and protect them from themselves, he was elected to follow their will, even if that will has them putting a bullet in their local area and the nation as a whole.

    None of that changes the point that what you said was factually wrong before.
    Once again... guys like Manchin understand that a $15 minimum wage is a career killer for them. People like Pelosi also understand it, which is why the party itself isn't going after them. Sure, the progressives are pissed,but progressives are always pissed about something.

    Its not like they will be primaried, so any threat is empty. The Democratic Party needs Manchin much more than he nerds them.

    Its not factually wrong, increasing minimum wages costs jobs. It strains small businesses, and it can cause economic hardship for many.

    I think back to when I managed a restaurant about 25 years ago. If I had to pay employees $15 an hour, that would have crushed us. It would have meant raising prices by ar least 25%, if not considerably more. Mind you, this was in a town where people botched when we raised the price of a well dring from $2.00 - $2.25. Larger companies are more flexible, but small businesses usually don't have the means to absorb such a striking impact.

    You seem to think that everyone would be better off, but that is simply untrue. This would mean layoffs,businesses closing, and higher prices.

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