1. #5881
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Force of government was used to abolish slavery.

    Would you have preferred people instead chose just buy products from shops that don't employ slavery? Problem solved?
    Great, I never said government isn't sometimes a good thing.

    I'm not an anarchist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Government is used and needed to protect Unions from the employers subverting and crushing them as has been proven in our own history.........
    No employer should be forced to hire union employees.

  2. #5882
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, one is a guy with a gun, telling you to do it, or he will soot you in the fucking face.
    So the choice is one guy willing to shoot you in the face as compared to the other option of watching your children starve along with yourself which is a slower and even more painful way to meet the same end.....

    Quit pretending imaginary choices exist when they functionally don't and lead to the same ending with just a different twist to it.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  3. #5883
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, one is a guy with a gun, telling you to do it, or he will soot you in the fucking face.
    And unions can be interpreted as thugs with bricks telling you to do what they say or they'll smash your property.

    Both are incredibly stupid and simplistic narratives designed to push an agenda, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #5884
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Great, I never said government isn't sometimes a good thing.
    So there are cases where it's necessary for the government to threaten to "shoot someone in the face".

    Just not in this case?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  5. #5885
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    So the choice is one guy willing to shoot you in the face as compared to the other option of watching your children starve along with yourself which is a slower and even more painful way to meet the same end.....

    Quit pretending imaginary choices exist when they functionally don't and lead to the same ending with just a different twist to it.
    Lord....

    They do exist, you can even control it as a consumer. Only buy from companies who pay their employees at least $15 an hour.

  6. #5886
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    So there are cases where it's necessary for the government to threaten to "shoot someone in the face".

    Just not in this case?
    But it's different. Because government. /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #5887
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No employer should be forced to hire union employees.
    I got to go, enjoy living in your fantasy land. Just know that your policies fist fuck this nation and our children when implemented and we have our own history PROVING that fact.

    I will gladly take an infraction for saying that, because its true.

    By your logic, I shouldn't have the government forcing me to pay my employees or what kinds of employees I can have either. I should be able to get 6 year olds working in the shops building my stuff for me for a quarter a day and no benefits because to force me to do otherwise is government interference in an otherwise "Free Market".
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  8. #5888
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    And unions can be interpreted as thugs with bricks telling you to do what they say or they'll smash your property.

    Both are incredibly stupid and simplistic narratives designed to push an agenda, however.
    If they are breaking shit, and destroying property or assaulting people. then I have a huge issue.

  9. #5889
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Lord....

    They do exist, you can even control it as a consumer. Only buy from companies who pay their employees at least $15 an hour.
    Consumer choice is a myth under late capitalism, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    If they are breaking shit, and destroying property or assaulting people. then I have a huge issue.
    The government is not actually shooting people in the face over minimum wage, either, so why bring that ridiculous bullshit up?

    It really just sounds like you just have a compulsive aversion to the word government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #5890
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You are claiming I don't support something I just said I supported.

    You really should stop lying.
    So you support government regulating businesses?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  11. #5891
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Consumer choice is a myth under late capitalism, lol.
    Especially in his world where government is apparently not supposed to play much of a role in market. Imagine what "choices" one could have if all brakes were removed, and monopolies ate everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  12. #5892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So you support government regulating businesses?
    It really do sound like he's fine with collective regulation of the economy for worker interests, just as long as you don't call it government.

    If that ain't the most American political stance I don't know what is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #5893
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It was provided.

    I support unions.
    What authority does a union have if not backed by the government?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  14. #5894
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    But it's different. Because government. /s
    It is different, because you don't seem to understand what government is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Consumer choice is a myth under late capitalism, lol.

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    The government is not actually shooting people in the face over minimum wage, either, so why bring that ridiculous bullshit up?

    It really just sounds like you just have a compulsive aversion to the word government.
    You don't have a choice where you spend your money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I got to go, enjoy living in your fantasy land. Just know that your policies fist fuck this nation and our children when implemented and we have our own history PROVING that fact.

    I will gladly take an infraction for saying that, because its true.

    By your logic, I shouldn't have the government forcing me to pay my employees or what kinds of employees I can have either. I should be able to get 6 year olds working in the shops building my stuff for me for a quarter a day and no benefits because to force me to do otherwise is government interference in an otherwise "Free Market".
    You want to force small businesses out of work.

  15. #5895
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It is different, because you don't seem to understand what government is.
    And what is government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #5896
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What authority does a union have if not backed by the government?
    Literally collective bargaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    And what is government.
    Feel free to look up the dictionary definition.

  17. #5897
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Literally collective bargaining.
    What bargaining? They have literally 0 authority without government backing
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  18. #5898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You don't have a choice where you spend your money?
    We really don't.



    You want to force small businesses out of work.
    "You want to force plantation owners out of work" energy. But yes, I do want to end exploitative economic practices like underpaying people so Karen and Todd can live their dreams of running a failing cake shop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #5899
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What bargaining? They have literally 0 authority without government backing
    Their authority is derived from manpower, they are collective labor.

    You can even do the same on the consumer end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    We really don't.





    "You want to force plantation owners out of work" energy. But yes, I do want to end exploitative economic practices like underpaying people so Karen and Todd can live their dreams of running a failing cake shop.
    You literally can. Don't blame others, because you cannot be bothered.

  20. #5900
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Feel free to look up the dictionary definition.
    So yeah, you just have a compulsive aversion to the word rather than being able to point to any actual difference.

    Luckily for you that's a treatable condition and would be covered under Medicare for All.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You literally can.
    Starting to seeing a lot of claims without evidence on your part again, sweaty. Might be a sign that your "government is bad" position isn't actually rooted in reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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