1. #6141
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's easier, because there is MORE FUCKING SUPPORT.

    "But why is it easier?"

    "because, there's objectively more support for this other plan, here's the data and evidence to prove it."

    "But, why is it easier."

    "Are you serious, I just told you."

    "But, you haven't demonstrated why it's easier!!!"

    "Again, refer to the evidence."

    Feel free to skip back to whatever step you're stuck on.

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    Man, that guy really needs to go punch more trees... with his face.
    Funny how your idea of "objectively more support" is the opposite of polling...

  2. #6142
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Okay, and you seem to have a hard time grasping that people who are not you deem the effort to be worth it and that your opinion is just that - opinion - and one you seem to think is "proved" simply because people in power agree with it. Stop navel gazing, sweaty.
    Progressives have zero fucking leverage. What are you guys going to do, appeal to populism?

    Nope, their plan is more popular.

    Are you going to appeal to fiscal responsibility?

    Nope, you're losing on that end, as well.

    Are you going to appeal to their desire to stay in office?

    Nope, his plan is far better for his own personal survival.

    You have no leverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Funny how your idea of "objectively more support" is the opposite of polling...
    It was literally the poll I presented. the $11 is more popular among both Republicans and Democrats.

    That's why Biden isn't pushing Manchin and the others.

  3. #6143
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Funny how your idea of "objectively more support" is the opposite of polling...
    "It needs to be more bipartisan because reasons" seems to be the clarion honk of clowns who think they're being subtle about supporting conservative obstruction and pretending that it's about anything but their self-interest. Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #6144
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    "It needs to be more bipartisan because reasons" seems to be the clarion honk of clowns who think they're being subtle about supporting conservative obstruction and pretending that it's about anything but their self-interest. Lol.
    YOU. DON'T HAVE. THE VOTES.

    You have no leverage to actually get the votes.

  5. #6145
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    YOU. DON'T HAVE. THE VOTES.
    Well done Captain Clever. You've successfully identified an already known fact.

    For some reason, though, you're super snitty about people attempting to get said votes and claiming apocalypse will be the result when... No, actually, there's not evidence to support it besides authority fallacies which aren't evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #6146
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Well done Captain Clever. You've successfully identified an already known fact.

    But for some reason you're super snitty about people attempting to get said votes.
    I'm pointing out that it's not going to happen, and Biden knows it. People want to be upset that political reality exists.

    Biden understands that Manchin is an asset, and this is simply not a fight worth picking, especially when they can sell an program that is more popular with both parties.

  7. #6147
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm pointing out that it's not going to happen
    Again I ask why you care, exactly? Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #6148
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Again I ask why you care, exactly? Lol.
    I don't want any increase, but an $11 is better than a $15. It's the less shitty option.

    And if you go back to the start, I was simply offering logical analysis as to why Biden wasn't pushing Manchin. You guys are the ones who decided to try and derail it all.

    Politics is largely about priorities, and this isn't a high enough priority for any of them to warrant such a drastic change.

  9. #6149
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    The derail about minimum wage that spanned the last few pages and an entire thread needs to cease immediately. This has far escalated beyond what was ever necessary and if it continues will see matched action. You're all responsible for your own posts, so keep that in mind when continuing a tangent you feel is distracting from the main topic.

    If you want to discuss minimum wage, create a new legitimate thread. Otherwise, keep on topic.
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  10. #6150
    Old God AntiFascistVoter's Avatar
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    slow typer, missed the message.


    White House: US will formally recognize Armenian genocide.

    One of the follow people will get very mad. Demand that Biden "Debate Me!"
    • Recep Erdoğan
    • Cenk Uygur


    Or both.
    Last edited by AntiFascistVoter; 2021-03-22 at 02:19 PM.

  11. #6151
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    To those who think Biden’s admin will be soft on China. They just cucked them, by issuing sanctions, hours before a meeting to improve relations. US brought up the Muslim camps and human rights concerns, with China countering with whataboutism pointing to Middle East and the treatment of black people. US prevented the end of the meeting, by going on a rant about Japan and South Korea accounts of China, being different from what China claims, while Chinese rep... literally looked at his watch:

    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  12. #6152
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    slow typer, missed the message.


    White House: US will formally recognize Armenian genocide.

    One of the follow people will get very mad. Demand that Biden "Debate Me!"
    • Recep Erdoğan
    • Cenk Uygur


    Or both.
    While a student he penned several articles that he has since disavowed, including a denial of the Armenian Genocide and disparaging comments on women
    There you go.

  13. #6153
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    To those who think Biden’s admin will be soft on China. They just cucked them, by issuing sanctions, hours before a meeting to improve relations.
    Hmf.its a nice public display but..I should wonder how hard will the sanctions bite?

  14. #6154
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    To those who think Biden’s admin will be soft on China. They just cucked them, by issuing sanctions, hours before a meeting to improve relations. US brought up the Muslim camps and human rights concerns, with China countering with whataboutism pointing to Middle East and the treatment of black people. US prevented the end of the meeting, by going on a rant about Japan and South Korea accounts of China, being different from what China claims, while Chinese rep... literally looked at his watch:

    How many in China feel this way?

    "We do shitty things, but you're doing much of the same shitty things"

  15. #6155
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    How many in China feel this way?

    "We do shitty things, but you're doing much of the same shitty things"
    Considering the translator for China changed the “slaughter of black people” to translate as ‘not very nice to black people’... it’s at least a rhetorical tact aimed at Chines speakers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Hmf.its a nice public display but..I should wonder how hard will the sanctions bite?
    It’s like the Maginsky act... they targeted individuals, not industry.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #6156
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Considering the translator for China changed the “slaughter of black people” to translate as ‘not very nice to black people’... it’s at least a rhetorical tact aimed at Chines speakers.
    Slaughter changed to "not very nice"

    That phrasing reminds me of the scene in Orgazmo.
    "They're the assfuck twins."
    Can't I call them the naughty twins?
    "No they're called that because they get fucked in the ass."
    That's naughty...
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  17. #6157
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    To those who think Biden’s admin will be soft on China. They just cucked them, by issuing sanctions, hours before a meeting to improve relations. US brought up the Muslim camps and human rights concerns, with China countering with whataboutism pointing to Middle East and the treatment of black people. US prevented the end of the meeting, by going on a rant about Japan and South Korea accounts of China, being different from what China claims, while Chinese rep... literally looked at his watch:

    Was the previous administration soft on China?

  18. #6158
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Was the previous administration soft on China?
    They definitely were self destructive when it came to China except for when they gave Trumps family money personally. But I know they fell in love with rocket man.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  19. #6159
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Was the previous administration soft on China?
    The previous president got a deal for his daughter to do business there. I'll let you decide how soft that was.

  20. #6160
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    YOU. DON'T HAVE. THE VOTES.

    You have no leverage to actually get the votes.
    This is all moot Republicans will not vote for any increase. They didn't vote for a bill that had 75 percent support. What this will come down to is reforming the fillibuster. Manchin is worthless with it as is, Warnock is up for re-election in 2022. If democrats don't change the game they are fucked

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