Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Bodakane]

It would be wise for the democrats to figure out a concise message and get as many of their own on board before going wide with it. What is a defined achievable end goal, and a total gun ban... honestly tell the people that want that to stfu, it ain’t happening, and that mindset will cost precious seats in 2022. Build upon incremental victories.

The best thing they can do NOW is go after existing gun law violations with draconian zeal. If that works, well, that’s great! If it doesn’t work, their failings can be built upon.

There’s already a gun control thread. It’s path-of-action that should be the concern in a Biden thread.

The right lies about the left's position no matter what it is. The left could come out pro-life and the right would claim the left wants to kill old people to make room for all the new babies.

[Edge-]

the right would claim the left wants to kill old people

Ahem...DEATH PANELS.

Which amusingly were a thing under Trump last year.

[Fugus]

I was born and raised in worse.
You...don't live in this country, do you?

- Dude, I have had 2 glocks, a 357 magnum, and a 12 gauge shot gun pointed at my face over the course of my life.

- I had the fun of sitting with 2 pieces of shit with the 2 glocks trying to get me to open a door so they could try and bust in and knowing there was children in there, I sat out there refusing to open the door and telling them I don't have the keys till they got scared and ran off when the fact was, the door wasn't even locked, I just wasn't telling them that and was mentally preparing to die taking at least one of them with me if they actually opened that door.

-Just down the street from where I am typing this has had a drive by a few years back, across the street has been broke into at least 4 times over the past 20 years and this house I am in has been broke in at least once before I moved in here and just down the road about 5 miles on this same street is 2 crack streets.

-I have spent time literally on the hood of a ford mustang because I was about run over by a drunk ass neighbor. Told him afterward if he ever did that again, I was taking a chainsaw to his car and I would let him watch.

Don't none of that excuse mass shootings are make what I have been through in my life worse than those actual events.

[Santti]

Oh fuck please...this the US...go home already... You apparently have zero grasp at how bad things are in some areas. Heck Philly is already over 100 murder mark... My old neighborhood used to be worse.

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It's not an argument. It more like "where the fuck were you all at when this shit going down every year?"

Whoa there! No need to get so hostile about it. It was a legitimate question.

You might give someone a heart attack.

[Poopymonster]

I will go a step further, I support permitting for all firearms. Because I love guns, I own quite a few and enjoy them. I do believe things that harm society have to be regulated in order to protect the freedom of those using them, and those impacted by them. It is entirely reasonable to me that a deadly weapon should be controlled by permits, this isn't new, lots of historical societies did this.

For some reason, a lot of hardcore gun nuts LOVE Israeli firearms laws, which really makes me wonder if they actually read them. Israel requires a license to own firearms for anyone. They do issue a lot of them, but you can't own a weapon without that license. Weapons aren't permitted individually, instead your personal license controls what you can own (Same as your drivers license controls what you can drive). Laws like this is why nations like Switzerland and Israel can have extremely high gun ownership rates without the gun violence of the US. Anyone who loves guns should totally be backing licensing like this.

If I recall, Israel also has conscription. They were taught how to use those weapons properly and (in theory) responsibly. You might say they were even..."well regulated". The Swiss do too.

[tehdang]

It would be wise for the democrats to figure out a concise message and get as many of their own on board before going wide with it. What is a defined achievable end goal, and a total gun ban... honestly tell the people that want that to stfu, it ain’t happening, and that mindset will cost precious seats in 2022. Build upon incremental victories.

The best thing they can do NOW is go after existing gun law violations with draconian zeal. If that works, well, that’s great! If it doesn’t work, their failings can be built upon.

There’s already a gun control thread. It’s path-of-action that should be the concern in a Biden thread.

Biden's problem, if he wants to do something on Gun Control and I'm not convinced, is that people view regulation as an incremental action towards bans except in the case of demonstrated danger. Their problem isn't figuring out concise messages, it's in convincing gun owners that the current proposal isn't just one step closer to an end goal they oppose.

Biden will probably just posture and advance a proposal he knows won't succeed in the hopes that it increases the turnout of his base in 2022. He just doesn't have the votes for major change until then, and he (or his advisors) are smart enough to know that.

[Elegiac]

Biden's problem, if he wants to do something on Gun Control and I'm not convinced, is that people view regulation as an incremental action towards bans except in the case of demonstrated danger.

Gee, I wonder who could be responsible for creating that impression.

[tehdang]

Gee, I wonder who could be responsible for creating that impression.

The people that point to Europe as reason to enact stringent gun or ammo controls. People that know most mass killings are carried out with handguns. Like, call your opponents as stupid as your own passion dictates, but it isn't that hard for others to put two and two together.

[Elegiac]

The people that point to Europe as reason to enact stringent gun or ammo controls.

I'm not sure why, considering the gun clowns constantly point to Switzerland as evidence that citizen firearm ownership is totes fine.

People that know most mass killings are carried out with handguns.

Do they also know this is a non sequitur?

Like, call your opponents as stupid as your own passion dictates, but it isn't that hard for others to put two and two together.

Clearly it is since they keep introducing additional shit that doesn't matter into the equation (like cultural differences, the size of the US, the opinions of dead slaveholders, et cetera) rather than just adding the fucking numbers and seeing that the problem is too many guns, lol.

The responsible party for the impression that regulation is a slippery slope into tyranny is a Republican one.

[cubby]

I'm not sure why, considering the gun clowns constantly point to Switzerland as evidence that citizen firearm ownership is totes fine.

Do they also know this is a non sequitur?

Clearly it is since they keep introducing additional shit that doesn't matter into the equation (like cultural differences, the size of the US, the opinions of dead slaveholders, et cetera) rather than just adding the fucking numbers and seeing that the problem is too many guns, lol.

The responsible party for the impression that regulation is a slippery slope into tyranny is a Republican one.

What always gets me, and what the gun clowns continue to avoid as much as the GOP avoids reality, is the Australian Solution. A democracy/republic that set about introducing an entire culture shift away from guns, doing buy backs, seizures, and limiting types for sale, and shockingly gun violence declined.

[Elegiac]

What always gets me, and what the gun clowns continue to avoid as much as the GOP avoids reality, is the Australian Solution. A democracy/republic that set about introducing an entire culture shift away from guns, doing buy backs, seizures, and limiting types for sale, and shockingly gun violence declined.

Um.

Maybe that's not the best example.



Although to be fair, the government is currently tied up in I believe four concurrent sex scandals at present. Going to make those talks between Biden and Scumbag ScoMo interesting to say the least.

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Senators Duckworth and Hirono have stated they're voting no on further Biden cabinet nominees owing to a lack of Asian-American and Pacific Islander representation among said nominees.

They have a point, Trump did nominate Elaine Chao (as horrible as she was).

[cubby]

Um.

Maybe that's not the best example.

Although to be fair, the government is currently tied up in I believe four concurrent sex scandals at present. Going to make those talks between Biden and Scumbag ScoMo interesting to say the least.

That's today - the Australia Solution (I might want to rephrase that) was implemented 20+ years ago. Nothing they are doing now affects those stark and objective numbers.

(that being said, I do see what you are saying - there are just not a lot of democracies/republics who've done this at all)

[Slant]

Gee, I wonder who could be responsible for creating that impression.

What's funny is that guns aren't banned in Australia nor Europe. But don't let logic get in the way of a good hyperbole.

[Selvari7]

White House eyes sweeping $3T spending proposal

A source familiar with the plans confirmed that administration officials are eyeing $3 trillion as the topline figure for its Build Back Better jobs and infrastructure proposal, though they cautioned talks are fluid and the final number could change. The sweeping package would constitute the White House's follow-up to the $1.9 trillion economic relief measure signed into law earlier this month.

The new package is expected to be split into two separate bills. The first would focus on infrastructure, with spending on manufacturing and climate change measures, broadband and 5G, and the nation's roads and bridges.

The other measure would include funds for pre-K programs, free community college tuition, child tax credits and health care subsidies, according to multiple reports.

The administration has signaled for weeks that it planned to tackle infrastructure after getting the COVID-19 relief bill across the finish line. The issue has generally received bipartisan support, and President Biden has already met with members of both parties to discuss a potential deal.

Let's be real. Planning is all cool but then what? Who's actually hyped for another bill watered down by Manchin and crew?

[masterhorus8]

What's funny is that guns aren't banned in Australia nor Europe. But don't let logic get in the way of a good hyperbole.

Not banned, but iirc, there are some real background checks. I'll get back to you on a better answer from a friend that lives in Australia.

EDIT:

Must have a "genuine reason" for owning a gun, can't be a convict or have a record of mental illness, different firearms have different catagories, depending on your license you can own different guns, Semi autos can't have a mag larger then 10, All Machine guns and full autos are forbidden.

must be stored in a gun safe with the firing mechanism disabled, normally by removing the firing pin or the bolt or whatever, only you are suppose to have the key

the genuine reason can be a farmer or a hunter or a target shooting, but you gotta prove you do those things

For example, can't own fully automatic guns, any gun that is deemed military only, civilians can't have

Any shotgun with a magazine of 5 or more shells or rifles with a mag cap of more then 10 are restricted to government only

[Breccia]

Let's be real. Planning is all cool but then what? Who's actually hyped for another bill watered down by Manchin and crew?

When the other option is "sulk in the corner"? I am. I'll take "watered down" over "dying of thirst".

[masterhorus8]

Accepting all or nothing is a sure way to end progress.

"The best is the enemy of the good." (Il meglio è l'inimico del bene)

[SavoirFaire]

Not banned, but iirc, there are some real background checks. I'll get back to you on a better answer from a friend that lives in Australia.

EDIT:

Sounds pretty reasonable. Full auto is already a collector piece in the US.

We in the US have not figured out how to get the guns out of the hands of criminals. To do a buyback or anything along those lines (if one would get that far) at some point has to address getting guns out of the hands of the criminal element, and doing so in a way that doesn’t violate other laws is going to be extremely difficult at best. You have to get the good decent people (gun owners or not) on your side, and to do that you have to get the guns out of the bad guys’ hands or people aren’t going to be interested.

Keep in mind this says nothing about where the criminal element for illegal guns resides. The optics on raiding poor minority communities that the police already ignore and taking away their means of defense... yeah nobody has the political will to do that.

[Slant]

Not banned, but iirc, there are some real background checks. I'll get back to you on a better answer from a friend that lives in Australia.

And that is not a gun ban. It's just a country that doesn't treat weapons like toys.

[masterhorus8]

And that is not a gun ban. It's just a country that doesn't treat weapons like toys.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing based on a strawman that was pointed out that you were continuing from who you initially replied to.