Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Themius]

Not really, there have been a few attempts but nothing too seriously or sustained until much more recently. America is notoriously conservative, for better or worse, so I don't know why we keep comparing the US to more progressive countries where the leadership doesn't have a huge swath of the electorate believing things like "clean coal exists!"

are you sure about that? I would tend to say that America's democrats are more or less on par with most centrist style governments around the world for instance. I think part of the reason why America doesn't shift further left could be unlike every other country we don't have additional parties that aren't scared of being left, who caucus with the leading moderate party and withhold votes as a way to get what they want.

...how do you think a lot of social movements achieved their goals, yo? This is some a-historical nonsense ignoring that the biggest driver of change in a Democracy isn't politicians, but social pressure on those politicians.

You don't understand what I am saying here... the biggest change in democracy you're stating as societal pressure on politicians... which I've already said is a thing but that I don't consider that part of incremental changes as a way of legislation. The government often blocks shit the public wants until it reaches a boiling point and it becomes clear they need to start delivering and then we get some incremental changes, sometimes maybe even big changes. But that still leaves the government largely absent from working towards those issues until societal pressure dictates they should.

How is that a-historical?

[Edge-]

are you sure about that? I would tend to say that America's democrats are more or less on par with most centrist style governments around the world for instance.

But we're talking about the US domestically, so those global comparisons aren't really meaningful since there's no real equivalent in US politics. For America, Democrats are the liberal, and increasingly the progressive, party. They may not be that by global standards, but they very much are by American standards.

I think part of the reason why America doesn't shift further left could be unlike every other country we don't have additional parties that aren't scared of being left, who caucus with the leading moderate party and withhold votes as a way to get what they want.

There's also not really an appetite for it nationally. Sure you've got your progressive enclaves where they can get someone elected, but when you look at the US nationally it ain't there.

And yes I'd love to see more third party options, but sadly that doesn't seem terribly realistic in the short-term.

You don't understand what I am saying here... the biggest change in democracy you're stating as societal pressure on politicians... which I've already said is a thing but that I don't consider that part of incremental changes as a way of legislation.

Again, it goes both ways. Sometimes you have the New Deal, sometimes you have Civil Rights.

The government often blocks shit the public wants until it reaches a boiling point and it becomes clear they need to start delivering and then we get some incremental changes, sometimes maybe even big changes.

Because this is a very inelegant way of framing the matter. "The government" is an entity, yes, but we're talking about Reps and Senators here, as well as who is in the Oval. The majority of the nation may want X, but because enough Senators don't want X because their constituents don't want X, X won't happen. Because the national number doesn't matter, the numbers that matters are at the state/local levels.

But that still leaves the government largely absent from working towards those issues until societal pressure dictates they should.

Not at all, there are circumstances where a single party controls the government in a more meaningful way (i.e. not the razor thin margin Democrats have now) and can get it done without public support. Again, the ACA being a good example of the government taking action towards one of those steps absent massive state/national pressure.

How is that a-historical?

Because, for example if we go back to marriage equality, it ignores the decades of civil rights work that activists did, often literally dying as a result of it, to slowly build public support for an issue. Thinking that it all comes from bold political leaders isn't reflective of US history. Bold leaders were important most of the time, yes, but they were hardly the single or primary factor.

[Breccia]

In the Shitshow thread, we've talked about Trump going to the smoldering ashes of his Border Wall to...do nothing, I guess, he has no authority.

So when Biden was asked wh--

I don't care

What?

We are putting in place a plan that I feel very confident about, and I don’t care what the other guy does

Huh. When I kept repeating "Leaders make results, losers make excuses" ad breccium, I didn't think we'd see it in back-to-back days.

[Kaleredar]

In the Shitshow thread, we've talked about Trump going to the smoldering ashes of his Border Wall to...do nothing, I guess, he has no authority.

So when Biden was asked wh--



What?



Huh. When I kept repeating "Leaders make results, losers make excuses" ad breccium, I didn't think we'd see it in back-to-back days.

I think Biden has the right approach to Trump.

He's not engaging him. He's not saying "wow, look at him over there!" He's not debating his points or treating him as having any form of legitimacy. He's not entertaining the dancing monkey and giving him peanut. He's ignoring him. And what Trump, just like any troll, hates most is to be ignored.

Perhaps Biden could stand to add in that Trump has no authority on the matter... or on anything, really, just to get that soundbite into the headlines as a nice reminder for how the score sits in the year of our lord 2021. But beyond that, I think he's handling Trump's desperate flailing for attention quite admirably.

[Paranoid Android]

President Joe Biden wants his $4 trillion infrastructure plan passed over the summer. He will announce parts of the “Build Back Better” package Wednesday in Pittsburgh. Officials say Biden wants to revive manufacturing and combat climate change. https://t.co/esj4ooHAnK

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1376695151867858944?s=19

Time for infrastructure week.

This too will need to be passed by a non filibuster Congress. Even as much Trump was full of it on his infrastructure week, the Republicans were not passing Trump's.

[Edge-]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...half-a-century

Bad news for Republicans: They're terrified of HR1.

When presented with what HR1 in a neutral sense, Republicans were as supportive of the legislation as Democrats. Which worries and scares Republicans.

Winning public support for their goals? Incredibly difficult.

How to win support? "deep storytelling" about how this could negatively affect people. They can't win on the messaging front, so they have to rely on appealing to emotions.

Unfortunately, they found that, "Stopping billionaires from stealing elections" is a winning message for both the general public and conservatives and they have no counter. Republicans could find no equally persuasive message to the contrary.

The message that worked? The one they admit won't satisfy people who want to address this on an intellectual level? Frame it as not urgent/important and focus on how there are "much bigger fish to fry at this moment". Congress should focus on getting people back to work because they can't do multiple things at once.

"We don't have the luxury to make that kind of statement because it doesn't refute the other sides point of view" man it's nice when they're honest because they don't think anyone is listening.

"One ray of hope" is that that a "diverse coalition of groups" like the ACLU oppose it. Not getting into WHY they don't oppose it, just say they oppose it.

Messaging that was "surprisingly near the bottom"? "HR1 will lead to more political violence." didn't play. The context-less "HR1 will silence the opposition." message similarly played poorly. And "most sadly", they can't attach the phrase "cancel culture" to HR1 because they can't make the connection because there is no connection.

The stories that were better about changing minds?

1. If you make donor lists public, a small scale donor could be associated with a donor with a bad public persona and negatively impact you!
2. Presenting AOC's desire to hold Trump officials accountable "vaguely" since apparently they don't know what that means, motivates some Republicans to oppose it because AOC = bad, and they think she's talking about "them", not Trump officials.
3. If a local neighborhood raises money for a good cause like BLM were made public then people would know who did and didn't give money, and poor businesses who may not be able to afford to donate to BLM might be attacked!

Seriously, this is astounding shit, and if anything should be a VERY strong motivator for Democrats to pass it. They need to send this recording to Manchin/Sinema and any other sticks in the mud daily until they realize how big of a win passing HR1 will be for the Democratic party and how beneficial it would be for the US.

[Ivanstone]

When presented with what HR1 in a neutral sense, Republicans were as supportive of the legislation as Democrats. Which worries and scares Republicans.

Redistricting boards and other voting laws passed via voter initiatives in Red States. Generally, they've fucked around with them like with Florida's felon enfranchisement law but it shows that even a lot of conservatives like these laws.

[Edge-]

Redistricting boards and other voting laws passed via voter initiatives in Red States. Generally, they've fucked around with them like with Florida's felon enfranchisement law but it shows that even a lot of conservatives like these laws.

It goes back to an interview I heard a while back: An analysis of polling on policy and legislation consistently shows that liberal/progressive policies and laws are much more popular than conservative/Republican policies and laws.

For a stunning example: See the historically unpopular tax cut they passed in 2017. I think it's the only tax cut in history, at least that I've seen, to not see majority popularity. HOW DO YOU CUT TAXES AND PEOPLE STILL HATE YOU?!

[s_bushido]

I've heard two pieces of news about Biden since he became President.

Oh, how adorable. The burner account thinks that the US president should be in the news every day for his most recent act of national/international embarrassment because that's what Twumpy Wumpy did.

[Zan15]

I've heard two pieces of news about Biden since he became President.

1. He tripped up the stairs when boarding the plane.
2. He forgot mid-speech entirely what he was saying.

I've heard zero, completely zero pieces of news about Harris.

Are you guys in the USA concerned even in the slightest about your President and VP?

The USA seems weak as f**k with this leadership to me.

wait so you were in a coma during the passage of the latest stimmy?
Border problem?
Tax increase on rich?
Infrastructure plan?
Whole bunches of executive orders doing a whole lot of wonderful things?

I mean it was huge news about Harris taking over responsibility on the boarder problem.


Yikes sir, you must be i guess "slow". Sorry for your loss (of that part of your brain)

[cubby]

I've heard two pieces of news about Biden since he became President.

1. He tripped up the stairs when boarding the plane.
2. He forgot mid-speech entirely what he was saying.

I've heard zero, completely zero pieces of news about Harris.

Are you guys in the USA concerned even in the slightest about your President and VP?

The USA seems weak as f**k with this leadership to me.

Awwwwwww. Look at you trying so hard to be concerned....

Let us know when you're done lving under that MAGA rock and come out into the sunlight. Biden/Harris have been working their asses off Making America Great Again.

[kaid]

Oh, how adorable. The burner account thinks that the US president should be in the news every day for his most recent act of national/international embarrassment because that's what Twumpy Wumpy did.

Yes blessed silence. A president is not supposed to be a rolling train wreck they are supposed to just do their fucking job in a way that makes us not have to pay attention to them like hawks.

[Blur4stuff]

I have to admit it's nice not having to think, "Great, what's he fucking done now" when I check the news each day.

[Gestopft]

I have to admit it's nice not having to think, "Great, what's he fucking done now" when I check the news each day.

I enjoy "back to normal" in that sense.

The whole "revolving door" and "corrupt nature of US politics;" not so much.

[Shadowferal]

Y'know...just because; NJ governor signs legislation expanding early voting in NJ

[Kaleredar]

Oh, how adorable. The burner account thinks that the US president should be in the news every day for his most recent act of national/international embarrassment because that's what Twumpy Wumpy did.

I find it very telling that the burner account/turnip trolls' best copypasta dig at Biden consistently seems to be something to the tune of "I've not heard of him doing anything" capped by a laughable "the rest of the world is laughing at the US' lack of leadership right now."

Meanwhile, the Trumplodytes that still skulk around these forums have been abjectly silent about Biden since his inauguration.

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/madiso...cheats&via=rss

Yo, why are Republicans that voted against the American Rescue Plan Act bragging about how much it will help their constituents?

Democrats need to go heavy on ad and messaging campaigns in those states/districts to remind people that their representatives voted AGAINST the bill and the only reason they're receiving the benefits in it is because Democrats passed it alone.

White House needs to start taking these clowns down.

[Milchshake]

NEW: Joe Biden's Education Department has just canceled $1.3 billion of student debt for 41,000 borrowers with disabilities — and ended a rule requiring 230,000 to submit paperwork to qualify.



Not one podcast grifter from Brooklyn is going to be happy about this.

[Themius]

NEW: Joe Biden's Education Department has just canceled $1.3 billion of student debt for 41,000 borrowers with disabilities — and ended a rule requiring 230,000 to submit paperwork to qualify.



Not one podcast grifter from Brooklyn is going to be happy about this.

It's good... now what about the rest of it? Is the question. Since it is within his power to cancel a substantial amount of it unilaterally. He is also a large part of the cause of this entire mess to begin with.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...er-relief-bill

The lawsuit filed in federal district court in Alabama is challenging a component of the American Rescue Plan Act that would prohibit states from using billions of dollars in federal aid to offset any tax cuts, calling it "one of the most egregious power grabs by the federal government in the history of the United States."

“Never before has the federal government attempted such a complete takeover of state finances,” West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey said in a statement. “The Constitution envisions co-sovereign states, not a federal government that forces state legislatures to forfeit one of their core constitutional functions in exchange for a large check equal to approximately 25 percent of their annual respective general budgets.”

Republicans, the party that voted AGAINST the ARPA, are suing because now they want to use federal socialism to offset more insanely stupid tax cuts on the state level.

Can we like, just stop giving these people money until their states elect people who aren't completely fucking retarded?