Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[cubby]

For quite a while during Trumps term, it was often said in response to how well the economy was doing, was actually just roll over from the previous president.

Should we be saying the same about Bidens economy for the first year or two like we did previously?

That's a pretty fair statement/question. Historically the GOP has measured "how the economy was doing" by the stock market rather than other factors. I'm not saying the Democrats didn't point to it as well, of course. So to point to the stock market and ask can we say this is Biden's inheritance from Trump, then yes, we can - because we did so when Trump inherited it from Obama.

However, by any measure other than the stock market, the United States is in dire shape. And that doesn't even take into account Trump literally killing hundreds of thousands of Americans through his total incompetence in responding to COVID.

[Zan15]

For quite a while during Trumps term, it was often said in response to how well the economy was doing, was actually just roll over from the previous president.

Should we be saying the same about Bidens economy for the first year or two like we did previously?

Normally i would agree, but we are in unique times

first nothing changed from Obama > Trump.

it was quite a while before any major implantation of anything of substance related to economy happened under Trump. Big change came in 2017 but was not implemented till 2018. Most of this was because he had no plan of actually winning the presidency.


Biden has already pumped out 1.9 trillion in stimulus and is pushing an infrastructure plan that actually has a written plan not like Trumps vaporware of promises` in his first 100 days

Also the progression of re-opening also has nothing to do with the previous administration and really more about states then the WH


yah i was more posting it as a comment on the fact that Biden is not tweeting and bragging 12x at this point with each record he hits..then actually giving Biden credit....

[Blur4stuff]

Biden and dems are making major moves right away, as pointed out. They completely own what the economy looks like over the next two years, good or bad.

[Edge-]

Biden and dems are making major moves right away, as pointed out. They completely own what the economy looks like over the next two years, good or bad.

And, this is a fantastic proof-case of the government being good, beneficial, and necessary. It counters decades of "SMALL GUB'MINT GOOD GUB'MINT BECAUSE ALL GUB'MINT BAD!" nonsense. When people start seeing how big and meaningfully the federal government can positively impact their lives maybe they'll stop believing dead Ronald Reagan.

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https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/st...51313933234181

Biden’s “infrastructure” bill spends more on electric cars than on roads or bridges.

It gives $80 billion to Amtrak to build rail lines to every state EXCEPT Alaska, Hawaii, or SOUTH DAKOTA.

And it repeals Right to Work protections that are proven to grow the economy.

WHY ISN'T BIDEN BUILDING A RAIL LINE ACROSS THE PACIFIC OCEAN TO HAWAII!? WHY ISN'T BIDEN BULIDING A RAIL LINE ACROSS ANOTHER SOVERIEGN NATION TO ALASKA?!

ALSO, WHY ISN'T IT GOING TO SOUTH DAKOTA!?

What's in South Dakota, Ms. Noem?

I AM!

That's a pretty good reason.

[Themius]

And, this is a fantastic proof-case of the government being good, beneficial, and necessary. It counters decades of "SMALL GUB'MINT GOOD GUB'MINT BECAUSE ALL GUB'MINT BAD!" nonsense. When people start seeing how big and meaningfully the federal government can positively impact their lives maybe they'll stop believing dead Ronald Reagan.

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https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/st...51313933234181



WHY ISN'T BIDEN BUILDING A RAIL LINE ACROSS THE PACIFIC OCEAN TO HAWAII!? WHY ISN'T BIDEN BULIDING A RAIL LINE ACROSS ANOTHER SOVERIEGN NATION TO ALASKA?!

ALSO, WHY ISN'T IT GOING TO SOUTH DAKOTA!?

What's in South Dakota, Ms. Noem?

I AM!

That's a pretty good reason.

That's good hopefully we can get off the bullshit "rich daddy musk will save us with his monorail!" bullshit and just build for fucking high speed rails...

[Edge-]

That's good hopefully we can get off the bullshit "rich daddy musk will save us with his monorail!" bullshit and just build for fucking high speed rails...

Hopefully, but first we've gotta learn how to fuckin build rail. Apparently the US is fucking awful at it, and there's no singular reason. It's a smattering of causes, most of which exist in other countries but aren't problems there. I listened to a really interesting interview with it and the TLDR from the guy being interviewed was, "There's no single reason why, but largely we just haven't kept up with improvements in rail construction that are commonplace everywhere else where they build faster, cheaper, and higher quality rail than we build here."

[cubby]

Hopefully, but first we've gotta learn how to fuckin build rail. Apparently the US is fucking awful at it, and there's no singular reason. It's a smattering of causes, most of which exist in other countries but aren't problems there. I listened to a really interesting interview with it and the TLDR from the guy being interviewed was, "There's no single reason why, but largely we just haven't kept up with improvements in rail construction that are commonplace everywhere else where they build faster, cheaper, and higher quality rail than we build here."

The United States' is singularly awful at building modern high speed railroads - and yeah, there is no good reason why. If I had to guess, it was because of poor policy planning - we haven't thrown enough money at it consistently, over time, to keep up.

This infrastructure plan by Biden is downright fantastic. And I love the "both sides" are already coming at it. AOC saying it should be $10T and Moscow Mitch vowing to stop it.

[Edge-]

The United States' is singularly awful at building modern high speed railroads - and yeah, there is no good reason why. If I had to guess, it was because of poor policy planning - we haven't thrown enough money at it consistently, over time, to keep up.

Ye, I'm not expert on any of this stuff and barely know my way around, but the way CA's highspeed rail has ballooned out of control and been shortened, while being extensively delayed, depresses the ever-living fuck outta me.

This infrastructure plan by Biden is downright fantastic. And I love the "both sides" are already coming at it. AOC saying it should be $10T and Moscow Mitch vowing to stop it.

On a related note, since infrastructure falls under the DOT - https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...-equity-478864

President Joe Biden's Department of Transportation is invoking the Civil Rights Act to pause a highway project near Houston, a rare move that offers an early test of the administration's willingness to wield federal power to address a long history of government-driven racial inequities.

DOT's intervention follows complaints from local activists that the state's proposed widening of Interstate 45 would displace an overwhelmingly Black and Hispanic community, including schools, places of worship and more than 1,000 homes and businesses.

...

Known as the North Houston Highway Improvement Project, the proposal would widen I-45 in three sections. TxDOT’s environmental review of the project, completed in February, found it would have a massive impact on the communities it would roll through, displacing more than 1,000 homes and housing units, 344 businesses, five places of worship and two schools.

Local activists say the communities that would be harmed are disproportionately home to Black and Hispanic residents. And the impacts go beyond the direct displacements: Twenty-six schools would be brought within 500 feet of the highway, increasing children's exposure to pollution in a metropolitan area that's already rife with car exhaust.

Seems like a good test for the DOT's ability to protect civil rights and environmental justice so we don't continue policies of fucking over poor communities of color and then wondering why they're poor and sick and can't afford medication.

[Rasulis]

The “good reason why” is we pay more per mile for pretty much all infrastructure compared to the rest of the world. When it comes to railways it’s particularly disgusting.

Right-of-Way acquisition is expensive in the US. Unlike in many countries where the government can just kick the property owners off the lands or pay minimal compensation, here the government has to compensate the owners fair market value. A major factor why the CA Bullet Train project tried to use the existing BNSF RoW as much as possible. Unfortunately, BNSF turned out to be a difficult partner.

[cubby]

That has nothing to do with it, although it doesn’t really help.

Eminent domain is a significant factor in building new railways. Why is it you think it's not?

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The “good reason why” is we pay more per mile for pretty much all infrastructure compared to the rest of the world. When it comes to railways it’s particularly disgusting.

If it's not because of, or at least in part because of, imminent domain - what are the factors in your statement?

[Edge-]

If it's not because of, or at least in part because of, imminent domain - what are the factors in your statement?

The interview I listened to was too long ago to remember specifics, but a cursory read at these articles seems to jive with my memories (though these don't all deal with just rail) -

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9...subway-bus-car
https://www.vice.com/en/article/884k...public-transit

But it's probably far from comprehensive.

[cubby]

Literally everything else, but overall it’s because we overpay contractors regularly. They underbid and then overrun by significant amounts and we just bend over and take it. Yes, eminent domain plays a minor role, but why does a subway cost 7x as much in the US as it does in the EU? It’s not because we’re buying land from mole people.

Where are you seeing these numbers? Where are you getting 7x?

Eminent domain plays a major role in railways because the United States has to pay significantly more than other countries for the land to build upon. It's not more land, it's more expensive land. Like 7x more....

(I'll find numbers on eminent domain acquisitions for railways)

[cubby]

The interview I listened to was too long ago to remember specifics, but a cursory read at these articles seems to jive with my memories (though these don't all deal with just rail) -

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9...subway-bus-car
https://www.vice.com/en/article/884k...public-transit

But it's probably far from comprehensive.

Thanks for the links - the second article really gets in the issues, and it is indeed cost overruns and overpriced everything. Article doesn't even mention eminent domain....

[Edge-]

Thanks for the links - the second article really gets in the issues, and it is indeed cost overruns and overpriced everything. Article doesn't even mention eminent domain....

Because that's, surprisingly, not one of the key issues if memory serves. It's other problems like a lack of modernization with our rail, both from the rail/trains themselves to the tools and practices used to build rail.

Like, we just suck at it because we don't bother going to places where they're good at building rail and ask them to teach us how to not suck so bloody much.

[cubby]

$1.7bn per mile for the most recent NY subway project vs $250m per mile in places like Paris and Berlin. These numbers are all publicly available. Start with Edge’s articles and dig deeper.

It's fine this time, @Edge saved you, but you've got to remember that having a conversation about numbers involves producing data to prove your point. You obviously know what you're talking about here, so it's always curious why you can't provide the links. "Look it up to prove my point" doesn't work, ever, in a discussion on a forum. "Here is some data/links I found to back up my assertion" is the way to go.

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Because that's, surprisingly, not one of the key issues if memory serves. It's other problems like a lack of modernization with our rail, both from the rail/trains themselves to the tools and practices used to build rail.

Like, we just suck at it because we don't bother going to places where they're good at building rail and ask them to teach us how to not suck so bloody much.

Frustrating as hell. When I was in Europe, except getting to and from Europe from the U.S., I never bothered with a plane - it was rail all the way, and a great way it was.

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Just as an example, this is what I found with 20 seconds of internet research - actually showing that eminent domain IS a factor in railway project costs.

I'm wondering, that second article of yours @Edge - it's really discussing intra-city lines more than inter-city railways. I wonder if that's why eminent domain isn't mentioned.

[cubby]

Here's an article saying the biggest issue for building high speed railways is land rights.

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Nobody saved me, I just didn’t feel like pulling up shit after a primer was already posted. Look up Eylon Levy for more info.

I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Your intellectual petulance is just not appreciated here, ever. If you have something to say, prove it when questioned - this isn't the first time people have had this discussion with you.

(I looked up your "Eylon Levy" - first two hits were translator and tennis star)

Friendly reminder - we don't have to do the work to prove your point. We get to prove OUR point, and if you disagree with our data, you have to provide your own.

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Another paper suggesting that cost over runs AND land costs are both to blame for the United States' lack of infrastructure.

[Kellhound]

And, this is a fantastic proof-case of the government being good, beneficial, and necessary. It counters decades of "SMALL GUB'MINT GOOD GUB'MINT BECAUSE ALL GUB'MINT BAD!" nonsense. When people start seeing how big and meaningfully the federal government can positively impact their lives maybe they'll stop believing dead Ronald Reagan.

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https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/st...51313933234181



WHY ISN'T BIDEN BUILDING A RAIL LINE ACROSS THE PACIFIC OCEAN TO HAWAII!? WHY ISN'T BIDEN BULIDING A RAIL LINE ACROSS ANOTHER SOVERIEGN NATION TO ALASKA?!

ALSO, WHY ISN'T IT GOING TO SOUTH DAKOTA!?

What's in South Dakota, Ms. Noem?

I AM!

That's a pretty good reason.

Actually, there has been significant interest in building a rail line connecting B.C. and Alaska for many years, but for freight not passengers. It is interesting that several western Amtrak trains that were discontinued 20+ years ago that people have been trying to get restored were not included.

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Hopefully, but first we've gotta learn how to fuckin build rail. Apparently the US is fucking awful at it, and there's no singular reason. It's a smattering of causes, most of which exist in other countries but aren't problems there. I listened to a really interesting interview with it and the TLDR from the guy being interviewed was, "There's no single reason why, but largely we just haven't kept up with improvements in rail construction that are commonplace everywhere else where they build faster, cheaper, and higher quality rail than we build here."

The US has an EXCELLENT rail system. It just happens to be built almost entirely for freight use. The US used to have an outstanding passenger network as well, but it was a major money loser for the railroads, especially after the mail contracts ended.

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Right-of-Way acquisition is expensive in the US. Unlike in many countries where the government can just kick the property owners off the lands or pay minimal compensation, here the government has to compensate the owners fair market value. A major factor why the CA Bullet Train project tried to use the existing BNSF RoW as much as possible. Unfortunately, BNSF turned out to be a difficult partner.

Highspeed rail and freight trains do not mix well. BNSF would have been screwed if they had just ok'ed it.

[Breccia]

Economy adds 900k+ new jobs and unemployment drops to six percent.

Welcome news, but this is a marathon, not a sprint. Everyone needs to keep doing their part.

[Rasulis]

I just want to put this here. An article from Washington Examiner which is normally very pro Trump. I thought Biden is China's puppet?

Biden's moves against China remind Europe it doesn't have Trump to kick around anymore

President Joe Biden has surprised European allies by spurring Western unity against China, applying subtle pressure to advance priorities once associated with Donald Trump’s confrontational demeanor.

Biden’s rhetorical contrast with Trump tempted European officials to perceive a “magic force” in his presidency, heralding an end to the controversies that brought intense acrimony to the surface of the transatlantic alliance. That promised change in tone has allowed Biden’s team to pursue many of the same policies that then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo favored, but in a manner that compensates for the difficulties of Trump’s idiosyncratic policy preferences and personality.

“Everything goes very fast, probably faster than expected,” a European diplomat told the Washington Examiner. “Europeans didn't expect the [Biden] administration to move so quickly within the alliance against China.”

“Right now, [the Biden administration] is trying to restore, rebuild a strong relationship with the European Union,” an Indo-Pacific official observed. That outreach is eased by Biden’s condemnation of Trump’s withdrawal from the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, but when it comes to the Indo-Pacific, this source “cannot see a big difference between the Biden administration's China policy and the Trump administration.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken put both priorities on display during his trip to Brussels this week. In addition to the NATO foreign ministers meeting, Blinken huddled with the EU officials who finalized an investment agreement with China in December — a deal that frustrated the Biden team and disappointed Uyghur Muslim activists who had hoped that European officials would refuse to sign such a pact while China subjects Uyghurs to “modern-day slavery” and the atrocities that occur in Xinjiang's mass detention camps.

“We see the European Union as a partner of first resort on a broad array of issues, and China is one of them,” Blinken told reporters Wednesday. “Our judgment is that the onus is really going to be on China to demonstrate that the pledges it’s made on forced labor, on state-owned enterprises, on subsidies, are not just talk and that the Chinese Government will follow through on the commitments that it’s made. So, I suspect that not only will we be looking to that but so will the European Union.”

It all sounds so polite, but the reality is plain: European officials don't have Trump to kick around anymore. His discourtesies made it easy for European allies to ignore the Trump administration. “Now they feel more pressure, probably,” the European diplomat said.

Biden’s advisers likewise have built on the Trump administration’s approach to allies on China’s borders. The coronavirus pandemic has impeded overseas travel, but Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin set out for the Pacific Rim on their first trip abroad. Just days before their departure, White House officials unveiled a vaccine production initiative in coordination with Japan, Australia, and India — a diplomatic quartet championed by Pompeo and feared by China as a potential “mini-NATO.”

Blinken and Austin arrived in South Korea just days after the announcement of an agreement on how to share the costs of U.S. troop deployments on the Korean Peninsula. Biden’s team inked that deal in the first months of his presidency because they adopted a proposal that was all-but agreed upon during the previous administration but never received Trump’s personal approval.

“It's fair to say that they set up the agreement that the Biden administration was there to take advantage of,” Foundation for Defense of Democracies senior fellow David Maxwell said. “The Trump administration set it up, and the Biden administration closed the deal.”

Biden’s team wanted to signal its commitment to the South Korea alliance, but they weren’t about to give back any concessions that Trump’s team obtained from Seoul, which agreed to increase its contribution by 13.9%. "It's the largest increase that's occurred in decades,” Maxwell added. “It's a substantial win there from a cost-sharing perspective.”

In tandem, Biden’s team has absorbed, even invited, criticism from authoritarians whom Trump used to conciliate. Blinken and White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan broadcast a tempestuous opening round of talks with Chinese officials last week in Alaska, a public dispute observed around the world. That clash preceded a cascade of sanctions from the U.S., Canada, the United Kingdom, and the EU, which blacklisted Chinese Communist officials overseeing the Uyghur Muslim repression.

“If the outcome that matters here is to get allies and partners more on side with the U.S. approach to China, I think they’ve had a pretty good week,” said the American Enterprise Institute’s Zack Cooper, who worked in the Pentagon and the White House during George W. Bush’s presidency. “They made progress on Asia last week. They’re making progress in Europe this week. I don’t know what else we would expect of them.”

Chinese Communist truculence has made it easier for hawks on both sides of the Atlantic to advance their priorities. China’s envoy in Paris offended the French this week by tweeting a barrage of “insults and threats” and then claimed that a scheduling problem prevented him from honoring a summons to the French Foreign Ministry.

“Neither France nor Europe is a doormat,” the French diplomatic corps’ Europe Minister Clement Beaune said in response. “When you are summoned as an ambassador, you pay a visit to the foreign ministry.”

China’s decision to sanction an array of European officials and analysts in retaliation for the Western moves on behalf of the Uyghurs only ensured that the Chinese representative in Germany would also receive a tongue-lashing.

"We have made it very clear to the Chinese ambassador in Berlin that the sanctioning of members of Parliament and scientists is absolutely incomprehensible,” German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said Tuesday. “While we sanction abuses of human rights, Beijing sanctions democracy. We cannot accept this.”

These are gratifying trends for conservatives who defended the Trump administration’s policies in the face of Democratic and Western European criticism.

“I'm very excited about all this; it's all to the good,” said the Heritage Foundation’s James Carafano, who believes that Biden was poised to be too cooperative with Beijing before the recent round of disputes.

“It just puts us back into a more healthy space, which we were [in] under to the Trump administration, which is: The way to get to stability with China, and the way to deal with their aggressive destabilizing behavior, is to focus on the points of contention and demonstrate your willingness to safeguard your own vital interests,” he added. "That's how you get to stability with China.”

In any case, the competition with China is a marathon, not a sprint, and Biden’s team will have to develop a detailed long-term plan to inoculate allies against Beijing’s mix of economic inducements and political pressure.

“What's the strategy there?” the European official said. "What the administration wants to achieve, probably ultimately we do know, but probably the steps are not so clear.”

[pathora44]

I just want to put this here. An article from Washington Examiner which is normally very pro Trump. I thought Biden is China's puppet?

Well if you heard it from a Republican's mouth then 6.55 times out of 10 it is an outright lie, 3.44 times out of 10 it is out of total ignorance, and .01 times out of 10 there might be a kernel of truth to it but more then likely not.