Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Felya]

But you dont understand why the left dont like him? I dunno you could find out if you wanted I'm sure.

You act like American democracy isnt actively debasing itself. As I keep saying the well is poisoned.

No, I don’t understand why anyone on the left would debase him... there is plenty there without adding anything.

The way I act is a mater of your interpretation and has little to do with me.

[starlord]

Because they actually want change, no more of this "please sir may I have some more" shit. Like people riot against police brutality and neither side is addressing it and in some twisted act of sadism biden makes his vp a DA, good listening guys.

police departments aren't even controlled by the fed.

[starlord]

Cool maybe that should change? Something needs to. Some police departments have become basically alt right militias, shit is untenable. I feel like the president is supposed to be the one in the best position to change these things?

in short, as per the constitution, that is forbidden.
its hard to take calls for rioting "burn it down", police reform seriously when people don't even understand how it works.

what are "both sides" supposed to do exactly?

[Edge-]

Cool maybe that should change? Something needs to. Some police departments have become basically alt right militias, shit is untenable. I feel like the president is supposed to be the one in the best position to change these things?

He's not, because police departments are not federal agencies. They're state/local agencies. The federal government has law enforcement agencies (FBI etc.), but do not operate police departments.

The federal governments powers over those agencies are limited, and while they can give grants or step in when federal laws are violated, they can't reshape national policing. They have a role to play, but the reform needs to come from states and cities. This isn't a top-down problem.

[starlord]

As per your constitution there are provisions making slavery legal. God maybe something's need to change oo

I dont think your gotchas really show that I don't understand how it works, just that you don't understand the scope of the change that is needed.

Yeah it would be hard to listen to the victims of police violence.

maybe if people actually wanted police reform they ought to educate themselves on how to direct their efforts towards the people and agencies that are in charge of the police instead of those that are not?

that could be a good start.

[Edge-]

Yeah well nothing much is going to happen if the president wont make it an issue and apply pressure. Cops made it pretty clear they dont care about what the people want

He can pressure states/cities, but he can't force anything because the Constitution exists.

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Until you brought it up nobody had thought of talking to local government agencies.

Snark aside, that's how the police reform we've seen so far got through. Pressure on the local level where there's actual authority to make changes.

[starlord]

Doesnt that require America to have a functional education system? Also people have been doing that since may? Not a lot has changed

So theyve started this and nothing is changing what now?

guess who also controls education?

you are a great example of the problem. people are too apathetic to pay attention or participate in anything not the presidential election, then lash out when that apathy doesn't magically pay off with the things they want.

[starlord]

Yeah but cops are still killing and armed to the teeth. :/

How many people have to die while we wait for cops to stop being blood thirsty?

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Yeah I'm a great example of an american issue, a person who doesnt live in America.

Oh wow its almost as of the system is actually fucked and nearly incapable of meaningful change.

Dude people are dying while you tone police how they plead for help. Its disturbing

so you don't even live in america, don't understand how the government works or how things like police and education are controlled but want to argue about it? ok.

[starlord]

I know how the federal and state governments work, you assume my demands for systemic change dont include that? That's on you.

its apparent that you don't when you lay such things at the feet of a single presidential administration.

[starlord]

I dont though? He is in the most influential government position in the nation though he can do more for the country as a whole than state representatives he can set the tone of reform or influence it, but he isnt and wont. There are things he would be saying and doing if police reform wasnt going to continue to be an uphill battle paid for in blood.

I get it though you guys are just getting out ahead of the fact that biden isnt going to achieve much.

what exactly is he supposed to achieve?

you really think the local police dpt in trumptown, redstate are gonna give a single shit what tone biden wants?

[starlord]

Probably not but cities and states run by dems with large amounts of police violence will and that's a fucking start.

which is irrelevant to biden. hes basically a picture on the wall when it comes to local governments.

[starlord]

Yeah he is about as charismatic as a soggy newspaper. Sorry you guys are fucked

Better luck next time.

we are fucked as long as people only care about presidential elections instead of participating where it counts for things like police & education.

[Edge-]

Yeah but cops are still killing and armed to the teeth. :/

Which is something the federal government largely has no control over, again. The improvements we've seen have been on the state/city level, because that's where the power lies. The Constitution exists and presidents have broad, but still limited powers.

How many people have to die while we wait for cops to stop being blood thirsty?

Sadly, a lot. Welcome to a representative democracy, it's flawed and messy and a terrible form of government. It's just less terrible than most of the other options out there. It ain't something I'm happy about, which is why I've voiced my displeasure to my local reps, state reps, national reps, joined protests, and am doing a bit of work with some local groups on this front.

Or I could just complain about it on the internet and feel good about myself.

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I know how the federal and state governments work

Based on your arguments that Biden should solve the policing problem, I'm mashing F to doubt. You may understand the broad strokes, which is more than many Americans, doesn't mean you actually understand the Constitution and how powers are delegated between the federal and state governments.

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we are fucked as long as people only care about presidential elections instead of participating where it counts for things like police & education.

This. Getting local/state officials who will take action into office matters infinitely more than who is president when it comes to police reforms. People keep acting like presidents have limitless authority because Republicans have allowed Trump to get away with all kinds of shit...they fuckin don't and it pains me how many people don't seem to be aware of the limitations of the office. I ain't a perfect repository of all things Constitutional by any means, but a lot of this is pretty civics 101, separation of powers, and 10th Amendment stuff.

[beanman12345]

Well Biden could use leverage to get rid of qualified immunity, I mean Harris did just that a few months back, but in order for that to happen it would require a senate majority to ya know, actually bring up the bill, on top of a SCOTUS that isn't 6-3 to not overrule it when it's eventually challenged.

So essentially yes we're fucked with police reform, better luck next time. no use bitching over shit Biden can't get done, and bitch about things biden can get done but isn't, when he's ya know, actually president.

[Felya]

Well Biden could use leverage to get rid of qualified immunity, I mean Harris did just that a few months back, but in order for that to happen it would require a senate majority to ya know, actually bring up the bill, on top of a SCOTUS that isn't 6-3 to not overrule it when it's eventually challenged.

So essentially yes we're fucked with police reform, better luck next time. no use bitching over shit Biden can't get done, and bitch about things biden can get done but isn't, when he's ya know, actually president.

It’s kinda part of reinstating Obama’s Justice Reform... I forget what it’s called, but it’s a review of officer conduct, that Trump canned years ago.

[cubby]

I have knowledge in that I witnessed them happening and know at the very least it counts as sexual harassment. See, he was working at the time.

But it doesn't. Not legally. You have no knowledge of the history, what the gesture meant, or whether it was unwanted by the recipient. Him working at the time is irrelevant, because you don't even know the status of the people he was interacting with.

I get that you want it to be there, but legally, you literally have no grounds to move forward.

[Milchshake]

It’s kinda part of reinstating Obama’s Justice Reform... I forget what it’s called, but it’s a review of officer conduct, that Trump canned years ago.

Here ya go!

https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeli...accountability

Friday, December 3, 2010
35 community organizations write U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan to request investigation of excessive use of force, particularly against people of color by Seattle Police Department (SPD). They cite recent incidents including an officer kicking and threatening to “beat the [expletive] Mexican piss out of” a Latino man lying face down on the sidewalk; an officer kicking the groin of a Black teenager standing still with his hands in the air and then kicking him several more times after he fell to the ground; and the killing of First Nations wood carver John T. Williams.

Friday, July 27, 2012
U.S. and Seattle enter settlement agreement, or “Consent Decree,” requiring City to implement reforms “with the goal of ensuring that police services are delivered to the people of Seattle in a manner that fully complies with the Constitution and laws of the United States, effectively ensures public and officer safety, and promotes public confidence ….” U.S. District Judge James L. Robart orders that final approval will be entered after “City has achieved full and effective compliance and maintained such compliance for no less than two years,” or the “sustainment period.”

[Omega10]

which is irrelevant to biden. hes basically a picture on the wall when it comes to local governments.

As much as this is a disagreement about if it's Biden's fault, or will be his fault starting in January, there is a huge area of complete and total agreement.

Biden will not be able to accomplish much. Hopefully he can fix some of the federal agencies that are currently broken, get the virus under control, and maybe restore a little bit of our international reputation (though that will not be so easy).

Here is the relevant quote:

I get Americans dont like outsiders remarking on how fucked you guys are, but it's a horror show we are all being forced to watch.

The rest of the world is forced to watch for now. But at some point they will just stop watching and stop caring about what the US does or says. And Josuke is precisely correct in this statement, and to bring it up.

There are two reasons why I think there might be some good things happening during the Biden administration:

1> If too many people are too broke, Walmart's profits depends on getting substantial annual federal aid. Same with a lot of other corporations. This makes me think that there is a minimum on how much federal money goes to middle class, working class, and outright poor Americans.

2> Money talks, bullshit walks, and China has a lot of money. As does EU. While the US excels at propaganda creation and is doing a good job of smearing China and its reputation, money talks. The Euro finally broke 1.20 dollars a Euro recently, and China is talking about putting into place policies that will result in the Yuan slowly rising in value over time. China is growing, we are not. EU is also struggling from a growth standpoint from what I can tell (Dribbles claims this regularly and displays charts, and this is one of his talking points that others do not dispute).

Both China and EU are working hard to develop strong internal markets, both to produce wealth, and to provide the need for imports, which increases international power and leverage.

We can jawbone to India about how they should just not sell their corn to China. But India needs cold hard cash, and they are even willing to sell their corn to a country that they recently had military skirmishes with, despite our efforts to get countries to not trade with China. Countries are nicer to other countries if their economy relies on that other country buying their goods from them.

Number 2 goes hand in hand with number 1. If American people have small amounts of cash, and EU and Chinese people have more cash, then both EU and China will gain power at the expense of the US. There is nothing we can do militarily about that. And both entities are quite aware of these dynamics.

So these two realities give me hope that there will be at least a little help from the US government to non-billionaire American people. Not much, but at least a little bit.

EDIT: Oops India is now selling rice to China, not corn.

https://indianexpress.com/article/bu...cials-7076649/

Title: China buys Indian rice for first time in decades amid border tensions

Can't do excerpts since cutting and pasting seems to be disabled from this site.

[Masark]

So, what do you think the rest of the rankings are?

[JohnBrown1917]

A Turkish(IIRC) dude making "demands" of the US and the soon-to-be US president. Neat.

Turns out the US is the country whose foreign policies have the most effect on this earth.