1. #6641
    Remember how we clowned on Trump for not bothering to even consider the environmental impact of his great, "THE WALL"?

    https://abovethelaw.com/2021/04/ariz...building-wall/

    Well...apparently Arizona's AG was paying attention, at least. He's suing the Biden administration for...failing to consider the environmental impact of not building the wall.

    Which, I believe can be summed up with, "There is none, because nothing is happening if we're not building anything."

    Man, do we need to start building bad-faith protections into the legal system for litigious political trolls?

  2. #6642
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Are you suggesting in the above idea that for Members of Congress each state would vote along party lines and then the state would allocate Members according to the percentages in that state wide vote?

    On a side note, contrary to popular belief, the Wyoming option doesn't change the make up of Congress that much, despite the dramatically increased number of House Members.
    Sorry again, getting mixed up some trying to type on the phone between responsibilities.

    Was thinking about the electoral college in that comment.

    But I would love a stipulation that the representation in Congress from a state has to be within a margin of the popular vote of that state among contested districts to help fix gerrymandering by HR1 accomplishes it nicely.

    Personally I want to move to ranked choice voting and get rid of primaries all together
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  3. #6643
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Personally I want to move to ranked choice voting and get rid of primaries all together
    It's hard not to view ranked choice voting as a hugely necessary change to the current system.


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  4. #6644
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Good news! They’re already a state with full voting rights and representation!
    And returning D.C. to Maryland and Virginia would give the residents of D.C. full voting rights and representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Chances of east oregon splitting off from west oregon are basically nill even if left up to the people. Sure, some east Oregon dwellers want it, but it's not a wildly popular idea either.

    I'd say let's just get rid of the electoral college and districting, as well as severely neutering the role of the senate in making laws. Doing all of the above would put more power into the hands of a direct democracy of the people rather than the plutocrats who run the system. But well, we know elections more accurately representing people rather than "regions" or "land" would mean Republicans wouldn't win ever again.
    The Senate serves its purpose as intended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    You know Oregon is already a state, right?
    You know I was talking about returning land to states, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Except Oregon is already a state that has representation in Congress.

    DC does not.

    And I proffer that’s the only reason you don’t want it to be a state. Because no one but no one gives a fuck about the antiquated decrees that formed DC, and I’ll air on the side of letting more people have representation in a democracy.
    I want it returned to the states it was carved from. The ONLY reason you want it to be a state is it will be reliably liberal.

  5. #6645
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    And returning D.C. to Maryland and Virginia would give the residents of D.C. full voting rights and representation.
    I guess North and South Carolina should reform into Carolina, North and South Dakota should reform into Dakota, and West Virginia and Virginia should reform into Virginia.

    Or, seeing as how they've been entirely separate entities for centuries, they should stay separate entities, but should still have full representation.


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  6. #6646
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They're already represented, even if the person they vote for didn't win. DC has no federal representation, yo.

    I think the US was literally created in a war that began due to people being taxed without government representation.
    So what is wrong with just returning the land back to the states it was taken from? Oh thats right, it would have no effect on the Senate, which is the only reason people want to make it a state.

  7. #6647
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    So what is wrong with just returning the land back to the states it was taken from?
    Because they've been separate for 230 years?

    Do you imagine that the people of D.C. think of themselves as citizens of Maryland or Virginia? Do you imagine that they would vote to "return" to 230 years ago?


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  8. #6648
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I guess North and South Carolina should reform into Carolina, North and South Dakota should reform into Dakota, and West Virginia and Virginia should reform into Virginia.

    Or, seeing as how they've been entirely separate entities for centuries, they should stay separate entities, but should still have full representation.
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from. I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Because they've been separate for 230 years?

    Do you imagine that the people of D.C. think of themselves as citizens of Maryland or Virginia? Do you imagine that they would vote to "return" to 230 years ago?
    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.

  9. #6649
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from. I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.

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    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Nope, bet they would rather vote for statehood than either of those options.

  10. #6650
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from. I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.
    I think you'd be surprised. And while many would be less than thrilled, I doubt you'd find any serious contingent actively opposing statehood and representation, which is quite objectively the right thing to do here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Holy fucking false dichotomy. Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife or are you still beating her?

    Also, Maryland and Virginia are not "the proper states" after 230 years of separation.


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  11. #6651
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Nope, bet they would rather vote for statehood than either of those options.
    Only if they think they will get better handouts.

  12. #6652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Only if they think they will get better handouts.
    You can't even fathom the idea that they might want to keep their centuries-old identity as Washington D.C., rather than suddenly become citizens of a neighboring state?


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  13. #6653
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I think you'd be surprised. And while many would be less than thrilled, I doubt you'd find any serious contingent actively opposing statehood and representation, which is quite objectively the right thing to do here.



    Holy fucking false dichotomy. Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife or are you still beating her?

    Also, Maryland and Virginia are not "the proper states" after 230 years of separation.
    The infraction for this post was bullshit. He was pointing out the absurdity of Kellhound's argument; not actually suggesting Kellhound beats his wife.
    ...
    I'm sure she's kept chained in the kitchen instead.


    Infracted.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2021-04-16 at 08:40 PM.

  14. #6654
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    The infraction for this post was bullshit. He was pointing out the absurdity of Kellhound's argument; not actually suggesting Kellhound beats his wife.
    Don't worry about it. I'm not.

    I probably should have used quotes or otherwise made reference to it being the classic false dichotomy / false dilemma / loaded question. I didn't think anyone was going to read it as a serious question, but this is the internet; you always have to be explicit.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  15. #6655
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I think you'd be surprised. And while many would be less than thrilled, I doubt you'd find any serious contingent actively opposing statehood and representation, which is quite objectively the right thing to do here.



    Holy fucking false dichotomy. Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife or are you still beating her?

    Also, Maryland and Virginia are not "the proper states" after 230 years of separation.
    @Rozz

    I kindly request a review of this infraction on his behalf.

    If you look at the context involved, it was making a solid point at the false choice the other guy was making by giving an equally false example.
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  16. #6656
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You know I was talking about returning land to states, right?
    That doesn't make your argument any better, whatsoever.

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  17. #6657
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post

    I want it returned to the states it was carved from. The ONLY reason you want it to be a state is it will be reliably liberal.
    The people who live there today have never been represented by Maryland or Virginia. They have no vested interest in any local governance of those states, no interest in their laws or policy, no representation on any counseling body, and have had zero historical input on any of the decisions made by those states.

    And yet you suggest that they just suddenly be subjected to a bunch of laws they had zero input in. Think of every single potential legal discrepancy in your attempts to subjugate people to laws that they never had any input or representation in deciding. If something is legal in D.C. but not in Maryland, are all of the people who were law abiding citizens up until the erasing of D.C. suddenly criminals for simply following the laws that they, as a community, had agreed upon, instead of the laws of what some other state with whom they had zero input on agreed to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from.
    It has a population that exceeds numerous other extant states. See my above reasoning as to why the people that live there should not be subsumed into some state they aren't from.

    I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.
    "If things were a way they aren't, then I can gaurantee you things would be some other way!" is not a compelling argument.

    And hey, maybe the GOP should formulate a more attractive platform if they want to incentivize the people of DC or Puerto Rico into voting for them. Why is it that the GOP have to fall back on having fewer people voting to remain in power, rather than attempting to incentivize more people to join their party?
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-04-16 at 05:21 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #6658
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Why don't we just push the continents together so they can return to their proper Pangean formation.
    /s

  19. #6659
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Why don't we just push the continents together so they can return to their proper Pangean formation.
    Better return a good chunk of the country to France while we're at it too.

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  20. #6660
    withdrawing from afghanistan is a bad choice
    i opposed it when trump was pres and oppose it now, but even though those are objectively bad decisions they are popular ones, i feel sorry for all of the woman and girls in afghanistan who are now going to be subjected to taliban rule. Its sad when you make a humanitarian plea to defend people being opressed your called a " war monger" There was a time when republicans would be making these points now you have tucker carlson defending the taliban

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