Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Arguing that you don't know whether you have the money available to fix your healthcare is the wrong stance. You should be arguing that you don't have enough money to let things carry on as they are.

Sadly, I was talking from perspective of the individual American, one who took the opportunity to ditch "optional" health care then got nut-punched by the pandemic.

The ACA was a step in the direction you were talking about, and it got reversed. There's no magic wand we can wave to take the money we're spending on health care and overnight cut it in half and still give everyone health care at EUropean levels. We should be taking more steps to make it happen, yes, but the broken system was made more broken in the last four years.

It sucks.

[DarkTZeratul]

Sadly, I was talking from perspective of the individual American, one who took the opportunity to ditch "optional" health care then got nut-punched by the pandemic.

The ACA was a step in the direction you were talking about, and it got reversed. There's no magic wand we can wave to take the money we're spending on health care and overnight cut it in half and still give everyone health care at EUropean levels. We should be taking more steps to make it happen, yes, but the broken system was made more broken in the last four years.

It sucks.

And unfortunately, the main way in which it was broken - the removal of the individual mandate penalty - isn't something that Biden can just snap his fingers and restore, as far as I know (IIRC, it was removed as part of the tax cut for the rich and thus would require Congress to restore it).

[Breccia]

(IIRC, it was removed as part of the tax cut for the rich and thus would require Congress to restore it).

This is correct. It was folded in and passed with the nuclear option as a 2-for-1.

Biden has power to create tariffs, but can't reinstate that tax by snapping his fingers.

[Omega10]

I've been noticing that Manchin has been playing an interesting game the past four months. He throws up seeming blocks and blusters and objections, and posits to hamper Biden's agenda, but then slowly comes back and finally capitulates and votes in favor. Time and again.

I'm wondering if this will be his playbook going forward - or at least for the next two years. Because Manchin has to look like he's not rubber stamping the Biden agenda, because of his unique constituent base (being more conservative than most). If this is what his plan will be, frankly, it's brilliant.

Senator Manchin is setting himself up... well already has set himself up as the spokesperson of the moderate wing of the democratic party. He is now a national figure, and when he talks, people listen.

imho:

Senator McConnell is the biggest loser of this legislative session.
Senator Manchin is the biggest winner.

[Edge-]

Senator McConnell is the biggest loser of this legislative session.
Senator Manchin is the biggest winner.

If Sinema didn't have all that, "Let them eat cake" energy, she's have a similar level of winning as Manchin.

But like an idiot she cut her legs out from under her and basically primed the next election for her to get primaried by a more liberal Democrat.

Edit: Amusing as I searched up her name to make sure I spelled it right this was one of the first things to pop up - https://twitter.com/MZanona/status/1383881855708012545

And people don't seem amused.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/b...le-energy.html

The country’s largest mine workers union signaled on Monday that it would accept a transition away from fossil fuels in exchange for new jobs in renewable energy, spending on technology to make coal cleaner and financial aid for miners who lose their jobs.

“There needs to be a tremendous investment here,” Cecil E. Roberts, the president of the United Mine Workers of America, said in an interview. “We always end up dealing with climate change, closing down coal mines. We never get to the second piece of it.”

Whoa, what about their CULTURE?! I guess Democrats banging on about replacing old-world coal jobs with new renewable energy jobs have been right all these years, and the Republican promises of "bringing coal back" were nothing but a lot of hot air.

“Change is coming, whether we seek it or not,” stated a document that the mine workers union released on Monday, titled “Preserving Coal Country.” It notes that employment in the coal industry had dropped to about 44,000 as of last December, down from 92,000 at the end of 2011.

Mr. Roberts said the union would resist any climate legislation that did not help ensure a livelihood for its members.

“We’re on the side of job creation, of a future for our people,” he said. “If that isn’t part of the conversation at the end of the day, we’ll be hard pressed to be supportive.”

Fair point! It's a good thing Democrats have long talked about finding ways to replace those jobs with newer tech/renewable jobs that offer more earning potential, to boot. Damn shame Republicans never figured out a solution that didn't involved taxpayer funded socialism for the industry.

[cubby]

Senator Manchin is setting himself up... well already has set himself up as the spokesperson of the moderate wing of the democratic party. He is now a national figure, and when he talks, people listen.

imho:

Senator McConnell is the biggest loser of this legislative session.
Senator Manchin is the biggest winner.

I would agree with all three sentiments. And we want Manchin to succeed here - him looking good and keeping his seat is a major priority for the Democrats. That (D) next to his name is the only reason we have the slim majority we do (I know you know this, just saying it for all).

[Edge-]

I would agree with all three sentiments. And we want Manchin to succeed here - him looking good and keeping his seat is a major priority for the Democrats. That (D) next to his name is the only reason we have the slim majority we do (I know you know this, just saying it for all).

At least until the next election when he hopefully won't be the deciding vote, or his next election if there's a chance to get someone slightly more liberal in there (I don't know WV politics well enough to know if that's remotely reasonable).

[Fugus]

And unfortunately, the main way in which it was broken - the removal of the individual mandate penalty - isn't something that Biden can just snap his fingers and restore, as far as I know (IIRC, it was removed as part of the tax cut for the rich and thus would require Congress to restore it).

From what I understand, they didn't remove the individual mandate, they set the penalty for not having it to zero. All they have to do is restore the penalty to a non-zero number to fix that, doesn't need the courts or some huge change. Just restore it to the previous levels.


Edit: Nevermind, I misread. Disregard this post.

[DarkTZeratul]

At least until the next election when he hopefully won't be the deciding vote, or his next election if there's a chance to get someone slightly more liberal in there (I don't know WV politics well enough to know if that's remotely reasonable).

My (admittedly limited) understanding of WV politics is that it's highly unlikely.

[Fugus]

At least until the next election when he hopefully won't be the deciding vote, or his next election if there's a chance to get someone slightly more liberal in there (I don't know WV politics well enough to know if that's remotely reasonable).

Just so long as he signs off on HR1 before the redistricting next year, if that happens and gerrymandering is done, the GOP will largely be sunk nationally until they start appealing to more than racists, religious zealots and retards. The racists and the religious zealots are dying off while they are getting so toxic even the retards see through their shit. That would kill them in Congress and the Presidential races leaving only the Senate where they are losing ground as well and if PR and DC are admitted as states, that goes too.

That isn't even including the measures that prevent foreign money in the elections and allow for more public funding of them all while shining a spotlight on dark money. All of which helps them to lie, cheat, screw around and steal.

- - - Updated - - -

My (admittedly limited) understanding of WV politics is that it's highly unlikely.

With WV, how much are they into gerrymandering, voter ID laws that disenfranchise voters, or screwing around within voting hours?

[DarkTZeratul]

With WV, how much are they into gerrymandering, voter ID laws that disenfranchise voters, or screwing around within voting hours?

Gerrymandering is irrelevant with regards to the Senate, though at a glance it looks like you've got a point on the latter two (and it shows in that voter turnout there - even in 2021 - is among the lowest in the country).

[Fugus]

Gerrymandering is irrelevant with regards to the Senate, though at a glance it looks like you've got a point on the latter two (and it shows in that voter turnout there - even in 2021 - is among the lowest in the country).

Yeah, I understand gerrymandering being largely irrelevant but looking at Georgia, they also have a habit of putting those voting stations in difficult to reach areas as well as part of it.

Remember in 2018 where Georgia tried reducing theirs from 60 to 6 in a black area and moved one of the stations to the middle of nowhere that was even 2 miles from the nearest bus stop.

They pass HR1, you might actually see a major change even in WV if the GOP can't screw the voters as much. There is a reason they are terrified of it.

[Ivanstone]

Yeah, I understand gerrymandering being largely irrelevant but looking at Georgia, they also have a habit of putting those voting stations in difficult to reach areas as well as part of it.

Remember in 2018 where Georgia tried reducing theirs from 60 to 6 in a black area and moved one of the stations to the middle of nowhere that was even 2 miles from the nearest bus stop.

They pass HR1, you might actually see a major change even in WV if the GOP can't screw the voters as much. There is a reason they are terrified of it.

WV is extremely red and not especially diverse. There isn’t all that much that suppress.

Of course, they’re going to do it anyways.

[Kellhound]

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/5...backed-pro-act

Good news for the PRO Act, Manchin is apparently on board. Hopefully they can whittle away at his bullshit by showing him how popular bills they pass are, getting him to support HR1, the infrastructure bill, and others that he's been fence sitting on and pearl clutching over "bipartisanship".

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https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...-ordinance.amp

So Kroger is closing down stores because of local ordinances passed in Long Beach to up pay for "heroes" (i.e. "essential" workers) by $4 an hour. Surely it's because they can't afford this kind of -



...oh.

So...can the federal government claw back tax breaks and loans given with the express purpose of reinvesting in the company and paying workers now that most of that money seems to have gone towards artificially inflating their stock value via buybacks?

The PRO Act isn't very popular in WV though, they actually prefer for people to be free to support or not support a union as they see fit.

- - - Updated - - -

At least until the next election when he hopefully won't be the deciding vote, or his next election if there's a chance to get someone slightly more liberal in there (I don't know WV politics well enough to know if that's remotely reasonable).

It is far more reasonable to expect WV to elect someone significantly more conservative than even slightly more liberal.

[jonnysensible]

At least until the next election when he hopefully won't be the deciding vote, or his next election if there's a chance to get someone slightly more liberal in there (I don't know WV politics well enough to know if that's remotely reasonable).

before manchin the dems have won there for what 70 years? hes not special no idea why people think he isnt easily replaceable.

[Omega10]

It is far more reasonable to expect WV to elect someone significantly more conservative than even slightly more liberal.

At this point it is not reasonable to expect WV to do anything but re-elect Senator Manchin by a very large margin. I would go so far as to say that it would be downright stupid for democrats to do anything but have him go unopposed in the primary.

He is an excellent spokesman for the moderate wing of the democratic party, and is getting himself set up to be the conservative spokesman for the whole country should the republican party implode. Trump has ruined any republicans that are not 100% submissive to him, and should the republicans implode all the remaining republicans will go down with the Trump ship. Senator McConnell was their best shot of returning to normalcy, but he has been marginalized so badly that he can't do it anymore.

Conservatives leaving the republican party may very well find that moving the democratic party to the right in tandem with Senator Manchin might very well be their best shot at maintaining some semblance of power and influence moving forward. Apparently the business community is throwing their lot in with Senator Manchin, and no doubt many others will take notice.

From what I have seen, Senator Manchin is definitely up to the task of becoming a national leader. If circumstances break right for him, he could become one of the most powerful people in the US.

[Kellhound]

At this point it is not reasonable to expect WV to do anything but re-elect Senator Manchin by a very large margin. I would go so far as to say that it would be downright stupid for democrats to do anything but have him go unopposed in the primary.

He is an excellent spokesman for the moderate wing of the democratic party, and is getting himself set up to be the conservative spokesman for the whole country should the republican party implode. Trump has ruined any republicans that are not 100% submissive to him, and should the republicans implode all the remaining republicans will go down with the Trump ship. Senator McConnell was their best shot of returning to normalcy, but he has been marginalized so badly that he can't do it anymore.

Conservatives leaving the republican party may very well find that moving the democratic party to the right in tandem with Senator Manchin might very well be their best shot at maintaining some semblance of power and influence moving forward. Apparently the business community is throwing their lot in with Senator Manchin, and no doubt many others will take notice.

From what I have seen, Senator Manchin is definitely up to the task of becoming a national leader. If circumstances break right for him, he could become one of the most powerful people in the US.

Oh there is no doubt that he is safe for re-election unless he votes for the wrong things.

[Edge-]

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...worse-n1264668

Wanna see how bad the GOP arguments against DC statehood are?

"D.C. wouldn't even qualify as a singular congressional district and here they are, they want the power and the authority of being an entire state in the United States -- and they want that power."

That's from Rep. Nancy Mace, Republican of SC. She has a point, DC is at 692K residents and the average size of a Congressional District is around 700K residents.

However, if we take her argument seriously...

The trouble is, two states -- Wyoming and Vermont -- have fewer people that D.C. By Mace's reasoning, those states "wouldn't even qualify as a singular congressional district," either. The fact that the South Carolina congresswoman was standing a few feet from House Republican Conference Chair Liz Cheney -- Wyoming's sole representative in the House -- made the circumstances a bit more ironic.

Vermont and Wyoming would both lose their statehood, including their Reps. and all four Senators.

Democrats need to keep pushing this, because the Republican arguments opposing it are transparently pathetic. I'm not gonna dredge up some of their older hilarious arguments like, "They don't need representation because they can put out political signs that every elected official sees!", which yes, was a serious argument from one of the brilliant minds at the Heritage Foundation.

[Elegiac]

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...worse-n1264668

Wanna see how bad the GOP arguments against DC statehood are?



That's from Rep. Nancy Mace, Republican of SC. She has a point, DC is at 692K residents and the average size of a Congressional District is around 700K residents.

However, if we take her argument seriously...



Vermont and Wyoming would both lose their statehood, including their Reps. and all four Senators.

Democrats need to keep pushing this, because the Republican arguments opposing it are transparently pathetic. I'm not gonna dredge up some of their older hilarious arguments like, "They don't need representation because they can put out political signs that every elected official sees!", which yes, was a serious argument from one of the brilliant minds at the Heritage Foundation.

I'd be down for rescinding a few statehoods for insufficient population if that's their complaint.

[Howel]

"They don't need representation because they can put out political signs that every elected official sees!"

Is there some state right I am unaware off here, that disallows a none state from putting up political signs?